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    Your Elvenar Team

Interesting Psychological Dilemma

Deleted User - 1759441

Guest
the simple truth? there are too many self-centered players in the world, all games. From the narcissist leaders to the greedy player that only plays one or two battles in the tournaments, just to gather the same rewards as the actual players. i personally play solo. i have taken 2 accounts to level 15 and delete the account, (i play 4 servers per account). Lvl 15 was a terrible " Time Sink", with its " decay" on everything? You must play everyday to not go backwards and to be honest, you are not moving ahead in any good way. It is where the game owners get a very long time to not create the next race. of course the slave-minds will attack my simple truth. i will just keep playing with no fellowship and ignore the tricks to get me to buy more diamonds with terrible scams. i do not need more donkeys to buy diamonds, i just need a decent % plus. This is what i have gotten from this game over the years. now troll, lie, and attack. Those type are the real reason i do not join groups in many games. and the liars. oh, i never buy diamonds, i got this high because i am an elite Elvenar gamer! Ha... (added) After reading the pages of posts before, i guess this is more about trades. nobody should push anyone into trades they do not want nor need. post terrible trades? they can sit there, i honestly do not need to trade very much at all. i will put up some 3 star trades to widen my contacts. I do use the newer " visit your neighbor" tool. Could be why i do not need to use the trader, not a selfish player but you can keep all the drama.
 
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ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
..... No one truly can be a bully you into specific trades as this is a game. ..... Everyone should have the freedom to trade the way they want however, not get bent out of shape if bad trades don't get picked up as everyone also has the freedom to choose which trades they want to pick up.

First, tolerating even pressure to restrict what you are doing with implied or actual threats used for intimidation and/or acts of coercion," is at least a mild form of bullying in this game. And, in my book, no bullying should be allowed, period. Tolerating a mild form only encourages those who act that way to do so more boldly. And while, if the fs has stated, "only 2 star trades except in these circumstances...." I have no problem with they enforcing their contract. But if I post 60 zero star trades I'm putting them at the end of the list (and I know that) and the only problem is that I'm not fully protecting players from miss-clicks where they will be unhappy. That's pretty minor -- and yes, I've missclicked and don't like it. But I don't think my error should be solved by the players erecting a fence that hampers another players style of play.

Second, along those lines, I too believe a player should be allowed to post whatever they wish. We have, finally I think, come to understand that "fair" isn't dictated by the stars but is an individual players evaluation at the time the post/take the trade. We have also, finally understood that to condemn a person -- especially in public -- for "gouging" and other superlatives, is a moral judgement and not healthy because, as one poster said, once you realize there are people in the community who will call you a "gouger" or whatever, you change you behavior to avoid getting a bad reputation. Your reputation should not suffer and there should be no threats implied that it will suffer, if you post what you wish to post.

Hmmm...
So to recap:
  • 1:1 is too restrictive
  • 1:1.5 is too unfair
  • but 1:1.14 is "just right"
Who died and made you Goldilocks? :rolleyes:

But it's not 1:1, 1:1.5 or even 1:1.14. It's whatever I say it is for ME when I post and what the purchaser says it is for He or She when he or she takes the trade. The value is based upon the traders perception of value when the trade is made.

And, don't forget, Goldilocks picked the bed that was right for her. Obviously papa's bed was right for him, mama's for her and the baby bed for the kid. Just sort of proves my point about value, doesn't it?

Finally, I'd like to take this time to lay out a problem I do see, caused by the very "rule" supposed to make things "fair." I am in a place where there is an abundance of T3 goods and a shortage of T2. If a player posts T2 for T3 at the 2 star level, if they have been improperly trained that a 2 star trade is always "fair," they loose. They loose because T2 is in short supply and if they look they will see that T2 for T3 is often posted in the 1 star area -- meaning they could get more for their T2 by posting it as 1 star at least. This is just one example of how having a player based idea, and enforcing it can lead to players being hurt. Yes, they can also make mistakes and be hurt by not understanding the relative worth of goods (in their current situation), but the answer is not to attempt to tell them a patently untrue thing -- 2 star trades are always "fair" -- but to train them to evaluate trades on their own. Fortunately, the days of "no cross tier trading" are gone. And, I've noticed, a growing number of players are offering 3 star, 1 star and even 0 star trades. At least in my part of the world. Hopefully, the trend will continue, thus adding another layer of complexity and opportunity to the game.

AJ
 

MagicPagan

Well-Known Member
Thank you, Lelanya. That was my first gut feeling, and in a way, I still feel that. But I'm second guessing myself so much that it's getting to be difficult to know how to react. There are so many issues of infringing on rights ... but then again, everyone has rights.

My gut says to stop people from telling others not to do 3star, and saying that everyone is free to do as they wish. My mind says that by the same token, I must not resent a big player for refusing trades, if they make that player feel bad. So my mind is evolving on this.

(And mea culpa for lumping too many people in that earlier statement. I may have been wrong to even include anyone in it.)
When I had a wee city in Winyandor and joined my current FS, I was bombarded by two players who taught me the circular zero star (think 1:8) trade for each tier, and kept hammering on me to put up trades any time they and I were online at the same time. It felt creepy at first.

Until...a more mature player explained it this way...

A good FS wants to see its member cities grow. As member cities grow, so does the FS as a whole. We are helping you right now, and as you are more able to engage, i.e., spire, tournaments, FAs, etc., we are looking for you to help the FS. It's a two way street, but before we can expect help for the FS, the FS has to help you.

And it worked. Each new player that is serious about the game - and there have been quite a few who have not been - gets help, always with the expectation that they will help the FS. We have gone from 4-5 tourney chests to 11 chests consistently in about 8 months.

I am now the player who explains this to the newbies. I help them when I can. One of our Mages sends chat messages every Monday afternoon before tourney starts on Tuesday, literally saying this: "Okay lower cities, put your zero star trades up. I have 100s of 1000s of everything."

I always cringe when he calls them "lower" cities, but his heart is good. He offers all cities smaller than his one zero star trade daily.

OTOH, in my FS in Sinya, the AM detests 1 star or zero star trades, even from Ch. 1/2 cities. I message him and the Mages whenever a wee one joins to let him know if I have worked out an arrangement with a wee, but he still grumbles. Grumbles, but does not boot as long as he knows there is an arrangement. From time to time, I have reminded him of the help he gave to me in my Ch. 3 city when I joined the FS.

No one should be forced to accept a trade of any worth. I think however, that sometimes a good heart is hidden behind a decidedly unartful message.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
When I had a wee city in Winyandor and joined my current FS, I was bombarded by two players who taught me the circular zero star (think 1:8) trade for each tier, and kept hammering on me to put up trades any time they and I were online at the same time. It felt creepy at first.

Until...a more mature player explained it this way...

A good FS wants to see its member cities grow. As member cities grow, so does the FS as a whole. We are helping you right now, and as you are more able to engage, i.e., spire, tournaments, FAs, etc., we are looking for you to help the FS. It's a two way street, but before we can expect help for the FS, the FS has to help you.

And it worked. Each new player that is serious about the game - and there have been quite a few who have not been - gets help, always with the expectation that they will help the FS. We have gone from 4-5 tourney chests to 11 chests consistently in about 8 months.

I am now the player who explains this to the newbies. I help them when I can. One of our Mages sends chat messages every Monday afternoon before tourney starts on Tuesday, literally saying this: "Okay lower cities, put your zero star trades up. I have 100s of 1000s of everything."

I always cringe when he calls them "lower" cities, but his heart is good. He offers all cities smaller than his one zero star trade daily.

OTOH, in my FS in Sinya, the AM detests 1 star or zero star trades, even from Ch. 1/2 cities. I message him and the Mages whenever a wee one joins to let him know if I have worked out an arrangement with a wee, but he still grumbles. Grumbles, but does not boot as long as he knows there is an arrangement. From time to time, I have reminded him of the help he gave to me in my Ch. 3 city when I joined the FS.

No one should be forced to accept a trade of any worth. I think however, that sometimes a good heart is hidden behind a decidedly unartful message.

I do agree with you, provided that 0 and 1 star trades are not pushed on a player and the bigger players don't pester them into it. It may be (and probably is) a big heart that is behind it, but they do no one any favors If the "lower level" players need to feel as if they are playing the game without "cheats," in order to have any sense of accomplishment. There are some players who hate what they perceive as cheats. Others don't consider them cheats and that's fine. Different strokes for different folks. But some high level players seem to begrudge the new ones their feelings simply because they want the player to grow faster and contribute more to the fellowship. They feel as if the new players who won't accept zero trades are holding the fellowship back, and want them to play the precise way they (the high level player) want them (the low level player) to enjoy playing, with no room for diversion from their own views. Yes, I understand that it would help the fellowship if they chose to accept the trades and grow faster, but if their own feelings make it impossible to enjoy the game by doing so, then that isn't helping the fellowship. That's just bringing about the disenchantment and eventual loss of another player. That helps no one.

I'll never forget how good I felt the first time I made 1000 on the tourney. I was finishing up chapter 2 and I did it myself. Others had offered to help me get there, but I needed to feel as if I accomplished it, not them. If people had pushed me to take zero trades, I would have left the game long ago. Others feel differently and that is perfectly fine, PROVIDED no one is pushed, or "instructed" that this is the way it must be in order to help the team. That's all I'm saying.
 

MagicPagan

Well-Known Member
I do agree with you, provided that 0 and 1 star trades are not pushed on a player and the bigger players don't pester them into it. It may be (and probably is) a big heart that is behind it, but they do no one any favors If the "lower level" players need to feel as if they are playing the game without "cheats," in order to have any sense of accomplishment. There are some players who hate what they perceive as cheats. Others don't consider them cheats and that's fine. Different strokes for different folks. But some high level players seem to begrudge the new ones their feelings simply because they want the player to grow faster and contribute more to the fellowship. They feel as if the new players who won't accept zero trades are holding the fellowship back, and want them to play the precise way they (the high level player) want them (the low level player) to enjoy playing, with no room for diversion from their own views. Yes, I understand that it would help the fellowship if they chose to accept the trades and grow faster, but if their own feelings make it impossible to enjoy the game by doing so, then that isn't helping the fellowship. That's just bringing about the disenchantment and eventual loss of another player. That helps no one.

I'll never forget how good I felt the first time I made 1000 on the tourney. I was finishing up chapter 2 and I did it myself. Others had offered to help me get there, but I needed to feel as if I accomplished it, not them. If people had pushed me to take zero trades, I would have left the game long ago. Others feel differently and that is perfectly fine, PROVIDED no one is pushed, or "instructed" that this is the way it must be in order to help the team. That's all I'm saying.
Agree. I understand what you are saying. And congrats on hitting that 1K from your own work and effort.
 
Love that this thread turned to fairytales :D sure made me laugh.

In the end I believe in free trading. As mentioned in other threads, the fairness is with the one posting and the one accepting the trade. We all have free will. Just like have the choice to choose our fellowship and know what you get yourself into by checking their rules in the overview. " Too many rules and restriction does not for a fun game make" That is what I am here for. FUN ;)
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
Love that this thread turned to fairytales :D sure made me laugh.

In the end I believe in free trading. As mentioned in other threads, the fairness is with the one posting and the one accepting the trade. We all have free will. Just like have the choice to choose our fellowship and know what you get yourself into by checking their rules in the overview. " Too many rules and restriction does not for a fun game make" That is what I am here for. FUN ;)
So how would you handle the dilemma faced by the OP?
 

Zoof

Well-Known Member
The dilemma, as I've parsed and understood it, is when the free will of players come into conflict with the goodwill and generosity of others. How does one find that balance and how does one detect it before things turn into rowdy bar brawls and hospital therapist visits?

This thread has been rather thought provoking. I may need to reread it just to make sure I didn't miss or forget things. Thanks, @Darielle for starting this. Also, do correct me if I'm wrong I feel like I'm very wrong but this needs posting nao. Mistakes now, fixes later!
 
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