Magic Academy and Spell feedback

[DeletedUser1053]

As a player in Orcs, I can see use for the manufacturing spell and I have needed the kp spell once when I went on vacation and could not get on. But the benefit to the spells is negligible and I would much prefer the space. All I am asking is that it be a deletable building and not part of a permanent quest line.

Everyone should be able to play the game the way they choose. I prefer to fight. Others do not. I don't think either of us should be punished for our style of play. By forcing the MA, they are doing so.

It doesn't matter if the MA is the greatest building in the game, to force players to have one goes against the stated aim of giving people options to play the game in the manner they would like (paraphrasing of course).

 

[DeletedUser61]

This is a city building game. It takes space to build. Space is the number one limitation of this game. Space IS the issue. Always.

New York City doesn't have much space. They have to use their space more carefully, but they've certainly built a city. Building an efficient, well balanced city is a more interesting challenge than overwhelming all of the puzzles.

I'll throw in an engineering joke, just to illustrate my point.

An architect, an engineer, and a mathematician were given a quest.
"Build the shortest fence that will contain 100 sheep."​

1. The Architect went to the courthouse and found the smallest plat that would reasonably contain 100 sheep, and built a rectangular fence.
   
   
2. The Engineer pointed out that the quest didn't say anything about corners, so she built a round fence, because no other shape encloses space more efficiently. She matched the area that the Architect enclosed, just to prove her point, and provided a fence that was 2/Sqrt((Pi)) = 1.1284= 12% shorter than the Architect's fence. See http://www.wikihow.com/Determine-a-Square-and-Circle-of-Equal-Area
   
   
3. The Mathematician built a fence around himself, and declared that he was on the outside.

How you solve a problem depends A LOT on your training, and on how you interpret the problem. The InnoGames developers are trying to provide us with a game that will appeal to folks with a broad range of backgrounds, time constraints, and financial resources. That is not a trivial challenge, rather it's perhaps the best game in town.

 

[DeletedUser1987]

I find it funny how you, in making a point that people have to use space more carefully, just repeated our argument that the Magic Acaddemy, as it is now, is useless. It isn't useful enough for the space it takes up. This is why you don't see a lot of single family houses in Manhattan, because even though single family houses are perfectly respectable houses, there are better ways to use the land. The Magic Academy is like a single family home. It's good for what it is, but other buildings are better.

 

[DeletedUser61]

It's good for what it is, but other buildings are better.

Roads don't do much for you either, but they enable everything else.

 

[Mykan]

Actually from what I have seen the MA saves me space which is its efficiency. When the power of provision spells can save me approx 51 squares of space I call that beneficial. At orc level it is just shy of 60 squares, for an elve. Humans have it better when it comes to this. The magical manufacturing spell also has its place. If I can't generate the relics to keep it running full time then the benefit drops.

Note: this statement is based on a per square comparison. there are other methods of comparison that may vary.

 

[DeletedUser1987]

How does power of provision save you that many spaces? It's impossible to produce that many of them.

 

[DeletedUser2396]

Well this is interesting reading from KNoledgeable folks - thanks - i built the thing an upgraded it to 5 lvls that cost diamonds now to find out that it is not efficient and the Developers of the Game have blundered again an won't make the product worth the Diamonds paid for it - Live an Learn something new each day -

SK

 

[DeletedUser1053]

As a Math teacher, I would have gone with that solution. However, if the engineer were smart, they would have found a cliff or some natural barrier and cut down the fencing. Solving the spacing issue does depend on the individual training. Different people do things different ways. Some are more efficient than others. However, I am not going to tell another the manner they choose is wrong. The MA is a space killer as it is currently. The space could be more efficiently used. Yes it can help. There are people that like it. But if the game is a city builder priding itself on giving you choice and multiple ways in which to progress, then it should not be mandatory. I don't think anything other than the MH and BH should be mandatory.

 

[DeletedUser61]

As a Math teacher, I would have gone with that solution. However, if the engineer were smart, ...

Topologists can't tell the difference between a coffee cup and doughnut.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Roads don't do much for you either, but they enable everything else.

But roads are optional. I often disconnect most of my residences, for example. And roads offer flexible design possibilities.

The InnoGames developers are trying to provide us with a game that will appeal to folks with a broad range of backgrounds, time constraints, and financial resources

I wish this were true, but it just doesn't correlate to this year's game changes. Every instance of the "new" version of play can be linked to targeting players who will buy diamonds. This has been accomplished by dismantling the balance of the pre-Dwarven game.

We don't see evidence of increased appeal to a broad range of backgrounds. Really, the Orc storyline is a good example of Inno's willingness to needlessly offend a market segment.

We don't see real indication that players' time constraints are a factor Inno considers; in fact, the Tournament is a dictator of players' time, and requests for facilitation were denied.

I don't know Inno via previous game releases; I only know what we've experienced within Elvenar. When you choose a phrase "...developers are trying to provide...", it implies a graciousness that I haven't experienced. I don't feel "provided to", I increasingly feel "dictated to". When developers increase costs, reduce player options, and systematically introduce features to confuse players into greater early spending - this doesn't equate with a notion of developer benevolence.

 

[DeletedUser188]

All I am saying is that from my point of view and in my city the MA works
As I previously stated I don't care about inno games flawed ranking system so points and space aren't a problem for me
Not everyone plays the game the same way for the same reasons

Andrew,
I do not trust your advice

Oh No what am I going to do now
The great Bobbikitty doesn't trust my advise I suppose its time to pack it all in
I MUST be doing something wrong

 

[DeletedUser2396]

Your right - you put an "i" in name an left out the "y" *** Bobbykitty *** not *** Bobbikitty *** - lol - at least i am not the only one who needs to use a spellchecker -)

 

[DeletedUser627]

Let's retain the context...

It hasn't harmed the rest of my game one bit plus I can do all the quests
My advice would be to build it you will be surprised just how useful it is
I for one am thankful I built it

Andrew, I built one on beta. It has harmed my score and the amount of supplies I can get and I regret it every time I see it. I am always short on supplies because I can't do that quest enough. I do not trust your advice. It has been an awful decision for me.

But I'm certainly not suggesting the academy be eliminated from the game. You like it, Andrew. That's great. I am glad for you. In fact, I would fight to keep this building in the game because you like it.

Oh No what am I going to do now
The great Bobbikitty doesn't trust my advise I suppose its time to pack it all in
I MUST be doing something wrong

 

[DeletedUser43]

It hasn't harmed the rest of my game one bit plus I can do all the quests
My advice would be to build it you will be surprised just how useful it is
I for one am thankful I built it

Andrew, your post about the magic academy was focused on your game only and you tried to get others to follow your course of action regardless of how they play. You stated that you like the academy for the way you play so you advised to others that they take a course of action that is non reversible, despite the fact that many in this thread have already said they are sad they build it. I find that cruel. Why would anyone suggest to others to do something that so many have regretted unless you are being totally dismissive of all the players who have that regret?

Of course this building harms your game to have that building.. You are losing out on ranking points and you have lost some autonomy over your city. Whether you care if you are harmed about that is a different story, but it doesn't change that it is a harm.

I will not suggest any course to anyone regarding this building. None of us should. There are great negative consequences to building this thing (you lose an entire quest line, and you can get harmed in contests), and there are great negative consequences to building it (you can NEVER delete it once built so you lose 25 spaces forever, so if you find better uses for that space you are stuck). There are only so many spaces you will ever have in this game before you max out.

It is up to the individual which course of action they want to take. All we should ever do is give our experience with this thing.

But this thread isn't about you or me, it is about the magic academy and its uses in this game. Even the devs know this building is weak and they promised a very long time ago to make better spells so it would be worth building. They have not done so. They have stated the only reason they won't allow you to delete it is because they want it to be a very powerful building in the future. However this is the present, and to have important contests rely on this building isn't ok. Instead of making better spells all they have done is find new ways to punish the players for choosing not to build it while it is still weak. What kind of nonsense behavior is that?

 

[DeletedUser2411]

Every game you play comes down to style of play. Also in every game there are things that are mandatory. With the MA, it comes down to 2 things:
1. For some people it does not fit their style of play. The quest should not be mandatory.
2. For some people the spells are satisfactory. For me they are, when I need them. When I don't need them, seeing "zzz" for 90% of the time is irritating. Plus you could never have the MA working 100% of the time. Of course my builders aren't working 100% of the time either and that irritates me also. Make the spells either work longer or more benefit or both.

 

[Mykan]

A summary of reasons for not building the MA:

1. No ranking points - while the main hall and builders hut do not provide rank points either they are essential to be able to play as a town cannot function without them. It can function (produce KP, coins, supplies, goods, etc.) without the MA, as it was introduced later in the games life.
2. Benefit of spells is not perceived to be worthwhile which adds to the concerns of the large footprint and no rank points
3. Rate of supply of relics to allow constant production of spells. Includes the amount of relics found at the time the MA is available and expected to be built. This is a major issue as the MA is required by quests at a key development stage and occupies a huge area when many players lack the relics to keep this building functional. Regardless of age if the speed at which the MA uses relics is quicker then the speed at which you can earn them (for the spells you want) sooner or later you run out of relics and the MA sits idle. People want to be able to use a building of this size regularly/constantly.
4. Size and permanent structure - These are both concerns but relative to the usefulness of the building. resolving the other concerns should mostly resolve this one. Granted players who were playing prior to this update may still feel force into building it.
5. Ability to use the same space for better alternatives then what the beneficial spells can provide.

Spells and their usefulness are a key part of the issue. A comparison of Power of Provision and Magical Manufacturing spells was done looking at their benefit compared to the same number of squares needed by building another building (factory or workshop and support buildings). If the benefit was greater then the size of the factory it was considered efficient for that specific spell (green highlights below)

Spoiler: Table

The culture spell is considerably harder to compare. The below table provides a matrix of the benefit provided by one cast of the spell (5%) in squares to obtain the same coins and supplies by separate buildings. Its benefit is completely dependent on each persons unique combination of design.

Spoiler: Table

The KP spell is impossible to compare its benefit in this fashion thus is more subjective. A person who plays regularly will find it next to useless compared to someone who has more regular and predictable but short absences.

Even if the spells show some promise of efficiency this still requires a sufficient supply of relics to be able to regularly/constantly produce these spells without the MA running out of relics and sitting idle. As well as there are still other strategies that can provide more benefit with the same space depending on a persons time availability.

 

[DeletedUser1010]

14 stockpile of Power of Provision isn't a lot Catti. I went through 40 in two days working on Breeding Grounds. I just wish the time to produce them wasn't so great.

Yeah I wrote that awhile back, now I keep a lot more "in stock" bc I need them more! Lol The Orcs are a costly problem in my city haha

 

[DeletedUser594]

A summary of reasons for not building the MA:

1. No ranking points - while the main hall and builders hut do not provide rank points either they are essential to be able to play as a town cannot function without them. It can function (produce KP, coins, supplies, goods, etc.) without the MA, as it was introduced later in the games life.
2. Benefit of spells is not perceived to be worthwhile which adds to the concerns of the large footprint and no rank points
3. Rate of supply of relics to allow constant production of spells. Includes the amount of relics found at the time the MA is available and expected to be built. This is a major issue as the MA is required by quests at a key development stage and occupies a huge area when many players lack the relics to keep this building functional. Regardless of age if the speed at which the MA uses relics is quicker then the speed at which you can earn them (for the spells you want) sooner or later you run out of relics and the MA sits idle. People want to be able to use a building of this size regularly/constantly.
4. Size and permanent structure - These are both concerns but relative to the usefulness of the building. resolving the other concerns should mostly resolve this one. Granted players who were playing prior to this update may still feel force into building it.
5. Ability to use the same space for better alternatives then what the beneficial spells can provide.

Spells and their usefulness are a key part of the issue. A comparison of Power of Provision and Magical Manufacturing spells was done looking at their benefit compared to the same number of squares needed by building another building (factory or workshop and support buildings). If the benefit was greater then the size of the factory it was considered efficient for that specific spell (green highlights below)

Spoiler: Table

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That analysis falls in line with what I've experienced. It's useful in my bigger cities but just a waste of space in the newer one and I wish I had waited. I cringe when a new player with barely 5 unlocked provinces asks for advice on their city andI see the academy already placed.
Now I've run into the "rate of supply of relics" issue having eaten up all my plank and crystal relics used for Provision spells in all of my cities despite having cleared some 235+ territories in both my bigger cities and being active in the tournaments (at least through level 3-4 of every tournament in 4 provinces)
I find the value of the spells only applies during intense building periods when supply bottoms out and you want to get up quickly. The rest of the time it's just racking up spells- if I have the relics handy- and with this summer solstice I paid the price of not having the relics on hand to produce provision spells. The quests to make x# of spells meant I had to go out, scout a plank territory, win relics, then do the same for crystal- before I could even begin production on spells.
The building needs an overhaul to make it worthwhile and should not have been mandatory. It's in no way integral to game play and if they felt it was a winner they should put it out and see how many construct it and keep the building.
It should have a permanent culture effect of somewhere around the 900 mark and the spells simply need more variety and should branch out into areas that aren't covered by basic building functions eg. spell to speed up barracks

 

[DeletedUser3575]

with this summer solstice I paid the price of not having the relics on hand to produce provision spells. The quests to make x# of spells meant I had to go out, scout a plank territory, win relics, then do the same for crystal- before I could even begin production on spells.

And then of course the next Solstice quest is "gain 15 relics" and you've already wasted several opportunities for relics that are increasingly more difficult to gain...

 

[DeletedUser43]

Wait until you have 3 day 6 hour scout times and climbing.