Mystery of the Misty Forest Event discussion thread

[SoggyShorts]

@Dividius
On one hand, you're saying that the FA rewards suck (and I agree that they don't match the effort)
but
On the other hand, you are saying that many will need the FA to get artifacts.

Is giving you something that you need not a decent reward?

 

[Aritra]

@Dividius
On one hand, you're saying that the FA rewards suck (and I agree that they don't match the effort)
but
On the other hand, you are saying that many will need the FA to get artifacts.

Is giving you something that you need not a decent reward?

But any given player shouldn't need FA to do well in [non-FA] events.

Though it is true I have not yet acquired all nine artifacts in any event (and this event was particularly disappointing because I was sure this would be the one I finally did), I am not faring nearly as well as I have before (and my efforts have not been casual).

How does INNO benefit from fellowships? If completing the event building leans on FA participation by design, it feels a touch like discrimination against the solo player (uncommon though they may be). I resent the additional pressure to join a group if I don't want the efforts of these weeks wasted. I hope the suggestion/implication/rumor/whatever is untrue.

 

[Iyapo1]

On one hand, you're saying that the FA rewards suck (and I agree that they don't match the effort)

I dont agree with this. A FS can pretty easily finish 1 path in each stage. The last stage usually requires teamwork but it's not that much effort.

The FS leaderboards are a very different thing. Those prizes do not match the effort. But...players decided the effort there.

 

[Iyapo1]

If completing the event building leans on FA participation by design, it feels a touch like discrimination against the solo player (uncommon though they may be). I resent the additional pressure to join a group if I don't want the efforts of these weeks wasted. I hope the suggestion/implication/rumor/whatever is untrue.

I did not even think about it from this perspective.

 

[samidodamage]

How does INNO benefit from fellowships? If completing the event building leans on FA participation by design, it feels a touch like discrimination against the solo player (uncommon though they may be).

The first thing that comes to mind for how the company itself benefits from fellowships: player retention. Especially when they tick off long term players when they change/nerf game mechanics. I suspect many more would rage quit if not for the relationships they had developed in FS's. I also suspect more diamonds get spent when players view that expenditure as helping their FS.
This game is designed as a cooperative game and discrimination against solo players has always been a part of that. Almost everything in the game is easier when you are in an FS. Many times I've heard the comment 'it feels like I'm playing a different game' when players join their first FS.
This is not to say that we as players discriminate against solo players; the ones I know, I like! Long term solo players will almost always tell you it is a much harder game when played solo and they accept that as a consequence of their choice.
I agree it's lame that the evolving event building artifacts are set up to just about require you to either spend diamonds during the event or play the FA to get a fully evolved building whether you're solo or in a FS. This has been the game mechanic for so long now that I suspect it increases diamond spending. It's highly unlikely that the company will change anything where that change would result in reduced revenue, though.
Edit to add response to @Iyapo1
The new requirements for badges as well as the requirements for the new badges look to me to make this next FA very hard on small city FS's even to complete just one path/stage. Several badges will be tough on small cities, but one example is the badge: Arcane Residue. To get one badge you must collect 15 Vision Vapor. If the FS only places badges on the path requiring the fewest badges for all 3 stages, they will still need 56 Residue badges to finish all three. That's 840 VV for all those badges. Luckily, the bulk of them (37) are required on stage 3, with 35 of those needed in the 2nd to last waypoint of the stage 3 path. That's still going to take a great deal of coordination and discipline to refrain from wasting those badges on off-path waypoints on the map as well. Since it seems the small cities are having the hardest time getting the artifacts during the event itself, they're the very ones who will need that artifact from completing stage 3.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I dont agree with this. A FS can pretty easily finish 1 path in each stage. The last stage usually requires teamwork but it's not that much effort.
The FS leaderboards are a very different thing. Those prizes do not match the effort. But...players decided the effort there.

Hmmm. Do you feel that major events are far too generous with rewards? I ask because the effort:reward ratio isn't even remotely the same.

E.G. In the upcoming FA to do just the easiest path on each stage the tasks per FS member (rounded down) in a full FS are:

• 2 x 50 beverages
• 2 x 10 advanced tools
• 2 x 10 Groceries
• 4 x 5 Toolboxes
• 2 x Gain a good amount of T1
• 2 x 3 24h T1
• 2 x 2 48h T1
• 2 x "Gain 2 enchantments"
• 5 x "spend 10 KP in a wonder"
• 2 x "Recruit a Large amount of troops"
• 2 x "Gain a Huge amount of coins"
• 2 x "Complete 4 tournament or Spire encounters"
• 2 x "Produce a CC"
• 2 x "Gain 15 Vision Vapor"
• 2 x "Gain 10 Relics"
• 2 x "Use 3 enchantments"

If you did those tasks in the FA you'd get 2 artifacts, a crating library, a ferris wheel, 55 KP, and 5x45 timers.
Now compare that to if you did those tasks in an event.
You'd get 4 artifacts and whatever you get from ~2-3,000 event currency used on chests which is certainly a lot more than the FA rewards.

Either the events are super generous with the rewards per task, or the FA is super stingy.

 

[Aritra]

This game is designed as a cooperative game and discrimination against solo players has always been a part of that. Almost everything in the game is easier when you are in an FS. Many times I've heard the comment 'it feels like I'm playing a different game' when players join their first FS.
[...] Long term solo players will almost always tell you it is a much harder game when played solo and they accept that as a consequence of their choice.
I agree it's lame that the evolving event building artifacts are set up to just about require you to either spend diamonds during the event or play the FA to get a fully evolved building whether you're solo or in a FS.

I am not whining or crying because I've chosen to play a more difficult way. I do not complain easily about struggling when I did not choose a FS path. However, there's a difference between comparatively more difficult (undeniable) and nearly impossible (the way this event has been going) for the solo player who does not have FA to fall back on (for me, anyway, and it has not been a passive endeavor). If I choose FS, it will be for my own reasons and my choice. That coercion is what could drive me away (at some point), though they won't care because this demographic is insignificant in numbers. I'd rather leave than be shoved into a group to benefit from a non-FS activity.

 

[TomatoeHu]

It is not easy for every fellowship to finish one path to the flag every map.

please look at the hundreds of fellowships that do not make it before saying that all fellowships can easily make 1 path on each stage. Start by randomly choosing one from the rankings page that failed last FA and participate with them. clearly they need you to succeed.

 

[Iyapo1]

Do you feel that major events are far too generous with rewards? I ask because the effort:reward ratio isn't even remotely the same.

I would never say such a thing. Or even think it. I simply dont think they are comparable effort wise.

37 tasks(rounded down), over half of which auto complete every single day with regular game play, nets me the same grand prize I get in events, two additional artifacts, 5×45 timers, a carting library and 55kp. With the obvious disclaimer that ease requires an active 20+ FS with everyone participating a little.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I simply dont think they are comparable effort wise.

This statement confuses me.
The FA quests (especially the upcoming new style) are exactly the same as event quests but doing them in an event gives you 2-5x the rewards.
What am I missing?

 

[samidodamage]

I am not whining or crying because I've chosen to play a more difficult way. I do not complain easily about struggling when I did not choose a FS path.

I'm sorry if it appeared I was implying that you were doing that; I certainly did not mean for it to come across that way! I don't blame you for feeling coerced into joining an FS; I absolutely believe Inno tries to make it as uncomfortable as possible for solo players in this game.
I was just trying to answer your question about what benefits Inno gets from players being in a FS and reiterate that they seem to be intent on making this game much, much harder for solo players.

 

[Iyapo1]

This statement confuses me.
The FA quests (especially the upcoming new style) are exactly the same as event quests

The event quests are compounded.The first five were singles but after that they doubled up. Do X and Y. So 18 event quests is equal to around 36 FA badges.
Also the events run for 20 days.
What kind of prizes would a player get in the event if they did 18 quests and quit after 5 days?

 

[Aritra]

I'm sorry if it appeared I was implying that you were doing that; I certainly did not mean for it to come across that way! I don't blame you for feeling coerced into joining an FS; I absolutely believe Inno tries to make it as uncomfortable as possible for solo players in this game.
I was just trying to answer your question about what benefits Inno gets from players being in a FS and reiterate that they seem to be intent on making this game much, much harder for solo players.

My statement wasn't intended to be negatively directed at you and I apologize that I was not clear. I know you are sympathetic and supportive of myself and solo players. I think I started off that way (somewhere in my traumatized mind) as preemptive defense, expecting to be discounted as a complainer, and worse because it would be the consequence of situation of my own making (in that I chose solo over FS). Replying to your comment (rather than just post with no quote or @someone) seemed like a natural progression to me (though may not have been the right call). I called attention to those things in your statement as acknowledgment of truths of the situation (and your support).

Peer and social pressure is one thing, but the lean toward coercion is... ahem, not cool. I understand what you suggested regarding diamond sales by FS members being a possible financial motivator to encourage FS participation, but if solo players are so "rare," then why do they have to try so hard to corral us? Would they get more diamond sales from the person as a FS member than a struggling solo player choosing to compensate? Maybe this is another way social bonds come in, retaining repeat sales if the player is connected to a group (and possibly feeling pressure by group whether outright or implied). I also wonder if we're not so rare as has been suggested (just maybe not as common to be as vocal about it). They would have the real numbers in that they know how many players there are, how many are listed as members of fellowships, and can take into account activity (adjusting numbers regarding "inactive" accounts), etc. Why are we a threat to be reduced?

EDIT: I mean this mostly rhetorically; I don't want to start another round, lol

 

[Ashrem]

What kind of prizes would a player get in the event if they did 18 quests and quit after 5 days?

Are they taking the 45 free truffles a day, and gathering any in the forest verge? Because without doing any quests at all they can easily get enough truffles for three large illumination pacls, so 54 candles, 21 lanterns and 21 globes, which should move you through about seven pages worth of the forest and net you more than an FA

 

[SoggyShorts]

The event quests are compounded.The first five were singles but after that they doubled up. Do X and Y. So 18 event quests is equal to around 36 FA badges.

Note exactly though since the FA doesn't have any "Give NH 7 times" or "Place 3 trades" but ok, let's answer the question below:

What kind of prizes would a player get in the event if they did 18 quests and quit after 5 days?

Depending on which 18 quests and which event, somewhere between 800 and 1200 event currency.
In the most recent "normal" event that works out to somewhere between 6 of the big 139 chests to 46 of the small chests, and that's not counting the additional free currency you get for just showing up which would add ~20% more prizes.

Have a look at what that would get you here https://elvengems.com/autumn-zodiac-2020/chests/

Any way you slice it, the rewards for the exact same quests are 2-5x as generous in an event.

 

[T6583]

I also wonder if we're not so rare as has been suggested (just maybe not as common to be as vocal about it).

I personally think that there are more solo players out there than we are aware of. I know of at least 3 of them that are active in the area around me that I have discovered in my larger city. (I had at one point tried to recruit all of them and everyone of them kindly turned me down). We visit each other and trade with each other. I fully agree that someone shouldn't feel like they're being forced into participating in something they don't want to in order to gain all the requirements for a prize that I feel anyone who completes all of the quests should be able to obtain.

 

[Kekune]

@Aritra this doesn't address the larger issue of how Inno sets up these events, but may be a practical solution for a solo player who needs an extra artifact. I have known some solo players to join a fellowship just for the FA, then leave again right after. It can be win/win - the player gets the prizes, the group gets a bit of extra help, and there's no long-term commitment.

 

[Aritra]

@Aritra this doesn't address the larger issue of how Inno sets up these events, but may be a practical solution for a solo player who needs an extra artifact. I have known some solo players to join a fellowship just for the FA, then leave again right after. It can be win/win - the player gets the prizes, the group gets a bit of extra help, and there's no long-term commitment.

Thanks. I'm aware of such temporary FS membership and have thought about it. At the moment I'm still sulking through my resentment at feeling forced to take such measures. Shouldn't have to be forced into this kind of solution.
It is likely (or at least very possible) I will someday be a part of a solo-based FS I've heard about (what you described but whole FS designed around concept, not just regular FS open to temporary joiners). Actually, I have thought about it and it is possible I'll someday open Kitras under this type of setup (to be outlined in FS overview, etc, I'm still developing on paper what I want)... but that is another day.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I personally think that there are more solo players out there than we are aware of. I know of at least 3 of them that are active in the area around me that I have discovered in my larger city. (I had at one point tried to recruit all of them and everyone of them kindly turned me down). We visit each other and trade with each other. I fully agree that someone shouldn't feel like they're being forced into participating in something they don't want to in order to gain all the requirements for a prize that I feel anyone who completes all of the quests should be able to obtain.

There are probably a lot more 1-member fellowships than there are solo players not in any fellowship. I know if I were to ever go solo, I would never do it without making my own fellowship, so I could at least get something from the tournaments and extra from the Spire. A well-planned city can also easily do at least the first stage of an FA solo, sometimes the second stage too, depending on the version of the FA. Though with the changes in the badges, that part may no longer be true.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I'm aware of such temporary FS membership and have thought about it.

Let me know, it's likely we'll still have an open slot then, and we don't care if you just come in for the FA.
You can still be(rightfully) disappointed with inno and hope they'll change without cheating yourself out of a couple of artifacts.