Not enough Pet food

[StarLoad]

And just to keep the whine alive, I have seen all the rotations today and all were relics just like yesterday. Right now be faithful to checking every 5 or 6 hours I have only seen 1 Petfood per week. Might I have missed a rotation or two sure, but even if that would that be the only pet food ( murphy's law says, yes) so is three per week acceptable??

 

[SoggyShorts]

is three per week acceptable??

I could make it on 3 per week, but I don't see that being very sustainable for high achievers without timewarps/polars.
Unless maybe they were lucky on the 5-day building side

 

[Henroo]

I could make it on 3 per week, but I don't see that being very sustainable for high achievers without timewarps/polars.
Unless maybe they were lucky on the 5-day building side

With regard to saving pet food, I would say Timewarp is the critical factor. By itself even a fully evolved Polar Bear is not enough to let you do an extra tournament round on a Fire Phoenix feeding. So a player with a stage 10 Polar Bear feeds it, then they still have to use 3 pet foods on Fire Phoenix if they want it active for every tournament round. They have used 4 pet foods. A player with just a Fire Phoenix feeds it 3 times to do the entire tournament. They have only used 3 pet foods. Thus a player with a Polar Bear and no Timewarp is going to use more pet food a week on average assuming they feed the bear.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

And just to keep the whine alive, I have seen all the rotations today and all were relics just like yesterday. Right now be faithful to checking every 5 or 6 hours I have only seen 1 Petfood per week. Might I have missed a rotation or two sure, but even if that would that be the only pet food ( murphy's law says, yes) so is three per week acceptable??

You can't pick 1 week and call that "guaranteed" or "acceptable"
You need to track it lets say over a year and then look at the average result.

And yeah off course you get relics most of the times. as that slot gives only relics or pet food.

My experience with over a year of results is that the average is 6-7 a week. (assuming you see all recipes)
There will be weeks with maybe 1, there will be weeks in which you get 15 petfood.

And in a rare case you see worse results.

I have seen good times with dwarven armouries, but currently I just don't get them, for months now I havent seen 1 on my main account (off course I get many on my useless account), but the changes to get those are much slimmer due to less opportunities than petfood.

This makes the feeling much more random, but I am sure at some point they will drop again and it all averages out at some points.
The more "chances" you get/have the more odds even out. this is the power of big numbers. it also means you can't look at small data as it's as random as hell, but have to look at the larger picture, what do I get over a prolonged time so that I collect enough numbers so that the end result is getting closer to the average.

 

[ekarat]

What are you doing to conserve pet food?

Are you fighting easy battles without it, or are you burning lots of time boosters to do all your fighting at once?

Also, my schedule does not allow me to regularly view all 4 recipe sets, and my schedule is not consistent enough that changing the timing is going to work for more than a few days.

 

[SoggyShorts]

With regard to saving pet food, I would say Timewarp is the critical factor.

Not as big a deal before the changes when you could just do XX provinces 2x using 1 pet food per week, but now?
Going way out doing just 2 stars doesn't work.

@ed1960 I missed the first bear event but managed to get 4-5 artifacts from conversion during the moonbear one. While I was deliberating between brown and polar they introduced triple troop queues which made the brown bear much less important.
So now my fingers crossed plan is:
Place all wonders except the timewarp on hold. Get that TW to level 30 (I don't even have another wonder at 16) and then use the spire to get to zero cooldown. On beta they replaced the library set with phoenix artifacts, so my hope (based on nothing) is to get a handful of bear artifacts from a feature that doesn't even exist in the game lol.

 

[Henroo]

On beta they replaced the library set with phoenix artifacts, so my hope (based on nothing) is to get a handful of bear artifacts from a feature that doesn't even exist in the game lol.

I have the same hope. Since Phoenix and Bear artifacts are the 2 types Inno has allowed conversion for (in the Coldfire Phoenix and Moonbear events) I think there is a decent chance Bear artifacts will be put into the Spire at a future date. Inno seems to regard these 2 types of artifacts as mainstays of the game, thus they give newer players opportunities to gain them. However I would be surprised if artifacts for any of the stand alone evolving buildings ever appear in the Spire.

 

[StarLoad]

There will be weeks with maybe 1, there will be weeks in which you get 15 petfood.

And in a rare case you see worse results.

If we are talking a RNG then your statement is false and based on a faulty presumption. If a RNG then a real bell curve should follow and the Worse results should equal the Best results.

 

[StarLoad]

Not as big a deal before the changes when you could just do XX provinces 2x using 1 pet food per week, but now?
Going way out doing just 2 stars doesn't work.

@ed1960 I missed the first bear event but managed to get 4-5 artifacts from conversion during the moonbear one. While I was deliberating between brown and polar they introduced triple troop queues which made the brown bear much less important.
So now my fingers crossed plan is:
Place all wonders except the timewarp on hold. Get that TW to level 30 (I don't even have another wonder at 16) and then use the spire to get to zero cooldown. On beta they replaced the library set with phoenix artifacts, so my hope (based on nothing) is to get a handful of bear artifacts from a feature that doesn't even exist in the game lol.

Soggy I also missed the bear event and I too am focusing on the TW (level 14) and will get that up but much slower than you are.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Soggy I also missed the bear event and I too am focusing on the TW (level 14) and will get that up but much slower than you are.

Yeah I'm getting about 600 KP per week and I had a few thousand in KP instants in storage. Finally, hoarding pays off!

 

[Silver Lady]

Not all RNGs are created equal, nor are they truly “random”. The “goodness” of the RNG depends on the underly algorithm and user perception.

 

[StarLoad]

Well not to belabor the point there really isn't an RNG within the game. At best I am sure it's an off-the-shelf "pseudo RNG" that creates on the fly "random" responses from a fixed set of options so in the case of the 9 possible relics and the 1 petfood we have a set of 10 Random choices. (note: there may be more possible permutations, but this is for simplicity)

Now start looking at the results and see if you see a pattern that would make you question the "random" nature of the results. Soggy will know exactly how this works as its a pure numbers game.

I keep seeing sequential relics patterns and I have stated them here, Yes that is statistically possible since the set of options is limited to 10 then I should also see relic - pet food - relic - pet food, and so on but I keep seeing R-R-R-R-R-R-P-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R. Yet others say they are getting R-R-P-R-R-R-P-R-P-R-R-P-R-R-R-R-P.
Both are valid and normal results but why is there so much variation on something that the Devs have decided is a critical part of the game from a continuing standpoint. They must as they keep releasing Pet Food enabled bldgs.

Hopefully, this makes sense

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Well not to belabor the point there really isn't an RNG within the game. At best I am sure it's an off-the-shelf "pseudo RNG" that creates on the fly "random" responses from a fixed set of options so in the case of the 9 possible relics and the 1 petfood we have a set of 10 Random choices. (note: there may be more possible permutations, but this is for simplicity)

Now start looking at the results and see if you see a pattern that would make you question the "random" nature of the results. Soggy will know exactly how this works as its a pure numbers game.

I keep seeing sequential relics patterns and I have stated them here, Yes that is statistically possible since the set of options is limited to 10 then I should also see relic - pet food - relic - pet food, and so on but I keep seeing R-R-R-R-R-R-P-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R. Yet others say they are getting R-R-P-R-R-R-P-R-P-R-R-P-R-R-R-R-P.
Both are valid and normal results but why is there so much variation on something that the Devs have decided is a critical part of the game from a continuing standpoint. They must as they keep releasing Pet Food enabled bldgs.

Hopefully, this makes sense

No it does not make sense.. you cannot look at 10-20 numbers and then decide what the afverage RNG is.
You should look at 1000 numbers at minimum.
Any short string of results is as random as hell, thats why it's RNG, the more results you have the more the random is eliminated.

To get back to soggy's casino earlier.
The casino doesn't quick become some random weirdo wins 4 times in a row, thats a fluke.
IT counts on the game of big numbers, at 0 everyone looses, this means 1/33 of the bets are casino profits.
On a single night the profit or losses can be huge. and are random as hell. but when they look over weeks, months,years the number gets closer and closer to thet 1/33 number as there are so many games played that the average averages out.

Roulette is a game of numbers not just for the players, but especially for the casino that hosts it. players rely on random luck, and the casina rely on the big numbers.
This is why you need to build up a stock of petfood, and then be frugal with it.
You should not play like the gambler but play like a casino. in the first part you are the one that screws over yourself by getting the darn feeling luck is never at your side (as humans we always enforce the negative over positive) but when you play the casino game, you are always the winner.

As said, I am currently extremely unlucky with dwarven armories, but since I play the game of the casino and have been frugal in good times, I am able to overcome that streak of "bad luck".
You should look this documentary, about how a MIT team used the casino's own game against them, and how a bad luck streak forced the team apart, and how another member emerged from it and build his own team and became rich.
Breaking Vegas Documentary: The True Story of The MIT Blackjack Team

 

[StarLoad]

No it does not make sense.. you cannot look at 10-20 numbers and then decide what the afverage RNG is.

CrazyWizard, I dont need to look at 1000's of examples to see what is on my screen, I would have been out of pet food long ago but for the 2019 Winter Magic and the Misty Forest events, Both I was able to secure quite a few Pet foods as prizes and went from 12/14 to 22/25. However, since the end of Oct and the completion of the Misty Forest I am not seeing more then 1 or 2 Pet foods in a week and as I was using 3-4 per week. The math supports my observations (7 weeks at 3 per week is 21 pet food) and I have 5 left and have not used the 2 that I will use this week.

I am not trying to justify anything more than the same as I stated from the start "Not Enough Pet Food is Available"

This is why you need to build up a stock of petfood, and then be frugal with it.

Your ability to ignore the obvious is amazing...

Any short string of results is as random as hell, thats why it's RNG, the more results you have the more the random is eliminated.

You fail to understand that random is not ever eliminated, it cant be, a Die has 6 outcomes and over millions of tries which one gets eliminated???

 

[SoggyShorts]

You fail to understand that random is not ever eliminated, it cant be, a Die has 6 outcomes and over millions of tries which one gets eliminated?

Just to hop in here, over millions of rolls the outcome that gets eliminated is "not rolling a 3" probably. Also, "rolling all 6s" etc
The fewer rolls the more likely to have a "strange" outcome.

Flip a coin is 50% heads, but you can flip a coin 4 times and get zero heads instead of 2 a lot.
0% heads wont happen in 100 tosses though. (I think the roulette record for the same color streak is around 30)

 

[StarLoad]

Just to hop in here, over millions of rolls the outcome that gets eliminated is "not rolling a 3" probably. Also, "rolling all 6s" etc
The fewer rolls the more likely to have a "strange" outcome.

Flip a coin is 50% heads, but you can flip a coin 4 times and get zero heads instead of 2 a lot.
0% heads wont happen in 100 tosses though. (I think the roulette record for the same color streak is around 30)

Not going to try to argue the point that "not rolling" is an outcome but with a die Most people will only accept an outcome that is one of the six options. SO it must be one of the six numbers in every roll, and that was my point.

Much as You and AJ disagree over the use of the word "fair" in the real world, the results we see in-game are for my example either 1 of 9 relics or pet food.

 

[Sir Squirrel]

I feel your pain Ed, I too can't seem to keep more then 10 in my inventory either. At first they were plentiful, but since they started putting them up for sale in the packages every so often they seem to have been harder to get for me as well. I actually bought 3 of them for 350 diamonds each the last time they offered them! So their marketing is working fine and as intended I would say!! I guess my pets are going on a diet until I can get my inventory up a bit.

 

[SoggyShorts]

the results we see in-game are for my example either 1 of 9 relics or pet food.

Of course, but "how many of each" is the question.
I wish I had kept proper records since this thread opened, but I really think I've been getting 2 or 3 pet foods in my 3 cities every day, basically the opposite of your results.

SO it must be one of the six numbers in every roll, and that was my point.

I agree that RNG plays too big a role (pun intended) in pet food distribution. Just like in another thread where I am advocating against moving the artifacts from the FA to the spire, I'm against heavily randomized rewards.

I think that certain recipes should be weighted differently than others in the MA, with the inevitable "problem" shifting to more players having "too many useless pet food recipes" rather than too few.

Crazy wiz is right that in a billion MA cycles the pet food distribution will be fine on average. That obviously doesn't do you any good though.
If 10 of us get 10 apples for an average of 1 apple each, that's of very little comfort to the hungry guy who didn't get one.

 

[StarLoad]

Crazy wiz is right that in a billion MA cycles the pet food distribution will be fine on average

While this is true, it also isn't right, because it will result in a bell curve and that means most will be fine, some will be overflowing and some will be suffering from an extreme lack. Since this is now a Priority by INNO as seen by the inclusion of more pet food enabled items, there needs to be an adjustment to balance or increase the availability of pet food for all.

 

[Silver Lady]

"Not Enough Pet Food is Available"

Please be kind I’m new here and have only been playing since just before the 2019 Zodiac event, but I have 2 items to put in for my 2 cents.
1. Haven’t kept up with how many times I’ve seen pet food, but I know I’ve seen at least 3 “different“ pet foods: 1 for just SF, and at least 2 that needed relics & catalysts. Would this change your 9 relics to 1 pet food?
2. I also seem to remember (but my memory is not as good as it used to be) that just after I started playing Inno announced it was removing some pet food recipes. So wouldn’t that possibly affect the number of times pet food shows up in the MA?