Recruiting Frustrations

[Deborah M]

as a newer player working my way up i find it shortsighted for clans to not take in active new players .. in all games i play i would not join a clan or fellowship or whatever the game calls it that will not take and train up players .. elitist can go pound sand

There are hundreds of FS on each server to choose from. A whole lot of those are not 25/25 and welcome new players in the hope of replacing inactive players. The "top" FS have worked very long & hard to get to the higher rankings and most have spent a good amount of real $$. I won't speak for others, although I could, but I found that it hurt my game and in some ways lessened the value of the time and $ invested to not be able to do as well in a FS with newbies. I had to choose between feeling good about helping other less progressed players or progressing my game, including ranking. It can be looked at as elitist but on the flip side it can be looked at as a false sense of entitlement to believe that some things don't have to be earned even in a game.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

That is something that has been one of the challenges for me and a whole lot of other players always. There is so much stern advice about all the other challenges so why not ranking? If a player decides to basically ignore this aspect/challenge in the game it doesn't mean they are a better player any more than somebody who doesn't use space efficiently.

I think for 2 reasons:
1. Ranking can be very much tied to how much money someone has spent on the game. Most of the advice given, or discussions had, assumes that no one is paying money. This might not be the best assumption, but its the only one that works in the abstract. Otherwise, if you're just going to solve all of your problems in a given chapter, or during an FA, or during an event, by spending $100 on diamonds, there isn't much point in asking for advice.
Its not a surprise that the top ranked players have cities filled with magic workshops/residences/culture, and those buildings allow for a higher ranking that cannot, under any circumstances, be achieved by someone not spending that kind of money.

1a. Ranking is also tied to when you started playing. If you bought expansions before the new price scale came into play, and if you have 1 year+ more of KP to give to your AWs, again, there isn't much that a new player can do to "overcome" that discrepancy, regardless of skill or diligence at the game.

2. Ranking is temporary. Player A might have 150K points in Orcs, and Player B might have 120K points in Halflings. Is Player A better? Likely not. Likely Player A is wasting city space on low efficiency buildings, and might not be very good at managing guest race resources. I think most people would prefer Player B, because Player B is going to hit end-game sooner, and contribute more, and 6 months from now will probably have a higher overall ranking.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

as a newer player working my way up i find it shortsighted for clans to not take in active new players .. in all games i play i would not join a clan or fellowship or whatever the game calls it that will not take and train up players .. elitist can go pound sand

To piggyback on @Deborah M , most other games, you can be relatively new and still contribute to a clan. You really can't in Elvenar. And it takes months before you know whether a person is going to stick it out. In other games, like FPS, you see that person online, playing matches, improving, etc. In Elvenar, your city growth is capped by time, and there are lots of cities where someone played for a week or 2, got bored, then left.
Lastly, most games don't have a hard cap on clan members. Here, there is. So sacrificing 10% of your FS to build up new players is going to severely set you back in tournaments and adventures.

 

[Deborah M]

@Tedious Actually I wasn't thinking that way but obviously I can't argue your points. 1. I've spent from day 1 because that has been the case in this game and prior games. I have no problem supporting the companies that develop the games I play and I really consider it entertainment budget. I'm sure all games are a different experience for players unable or unwilling to spend cash. 1a. Definitely something I am well aware of. I started playing 2+ years ago so there are players with rankings I will never be able to catch on ranking points unless they slow down or stop playing. 2. Absolutely. I like others in my general similarly ranked slide up & down in ranking points a whole lot depending on where people are in the chapters.

 

[Laochra]

That's a great idea, to be able to get an ingame stats on an applicant, click on their name and get a different pop-up that gives score, chapter, I really like the last 4 tournaments, boosts, expansions... Now you know if you want to put the time into actually visiting them.

How about an asterisk next to the name of the players who have been inactive for the last 30+ days?

 

[Ashrem]

To piggyback on @Deborah M , most other games, you can be relatively new and still contribute to a clan. You really can't in Elvenar.

That's not really true, though. Unless the sole goal of the fellowship is ranking, which offers nothing, a smaller player can offer plenty. If nothing else, within a couple of months of effort they can achieve high tournament score more easily, and cheaper, than a late-game player. They might be in just as busy an area as a later player, so well placed to help with trade imbalances by trading with neighbours. And their city is small, so you don't have to spend as much time waiting for it to load when you got to help them.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

That's not really true, though. Unless the sole goal of the fellowship is ranking, which offers nothing, a smaller player can offer plenty. If nothing else, within a couple of months of effort they can achieve high tournament score more easily, and cheaper

I disagree.
If you are talking about a new player who logs on multiple times a day, builds efficiently, and does their homework, maybe in a few months they're contributing to the tournament in excess of 1K points. And that assumes you feed them goods.
But you'd need to know out of the gate that this person is dedicated and is going to be a daily or every-weekday player, and how do you know that? And should an FS wait several months to make sure that's the case?
And even if this player "offers plenty," why would a fellowship not just take the player already with 20K points, who has already proven the points above?

I think the current system is fine. When you start, find a fellowship that will have you. It will probably be smaller, or filled with lower-level players. If you proceed further than your new FS members, then apply to a new one, full of higher-ranked players. Or, if you like the people, and you aren't hurting for trades/don't care about tournaments or FAs, stay and grow.

 

[Ashrem]

I disagree.
If you are talking about a new player who logs on multiple times a day, builds efficiently, and does their homework, maybe in a few months they're contributing to the tournament in excess of 1K points. And that assumes you feed them goods.

Well, I wasn't suggesting anyone accept day 1 players, but you are incorrect.

In one of my groups we have a player who started playing on March 14th (22 days ago) who has finished the event and got over 1000 points last week, and is currently at about 250 points having only done 1 and a half rounds in this tournament so far, which isn't their boost. I expect them to be over 1000 points again, because it's cheap. they use mostly coin and tools, and are helping 25 FS members every day, plus neighbours. That's with less than a full month of activity and not even having bought the start diamond pack, so working on the level 2 builder.

Yes, we have given them excellent trades, and it has paid back easily. But our fellowship is ranked between 100 and 200, and we don't care about it being higher.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

In one of my groups we have a player who started playing on March 14th (22 days ago) who has finished the event and got over 1000 points last week, and is currently at about 250 points having only done 1 and a half rounds in this tournament so far, which isn't their boost. I expect them to be over 1000 points again, because it's cheap. they use mostly coin and tools, and are helping 25 FS members every day, plus neighbours. That's with less than a full month of activity and not even having bought the start diamond pack, so working on the level 2 builder.

If this person has the gold and supplies to cater 4 provinces to 5 stars (and also clear enough world provinces to unlock those tourney provinces), and has the gold/supplies to keep growing his city, I'm guessing he is playing alot. And knows what he's doing, or is getting really good advice from the rest of the FS.

And that's kind of my point. Its great if you get a recruit that is going to be online several hours a day, and can run beverage productions. And its really awesome for your FS to get this new player; they're going to be a real asset going forward. But that's not every new player - far from it. Just look at the swaths of cities abandoned in Chapter 1, 2, 3 etc. The player you referenced is in the top 0.1% of new players.

And the original complaint was about high level fellowships not taking a chance on new players. Unless you have prior knowledge about a player (friend, family, etc.), or perfect foresight, most of the newbie players you accept won't be contributing like your superstar.

My last FS had a bad habit of filling out its final 5 spots with players in the 1K-5K point range. And for the most part it was a disaster. We might get someone who was very active for a week, and then tailed off. And unless the Archmage is closely monitoring player growth (easier to do thanks to @elvenstats) AND is ruthlessly cutting slow-growing players, taking a chance on a newbie is likely going to set your FS back.

Many people are fine with that setback. They want a low-key FS, and they care more about chat, and community, and lots of other stuff than the size of someone's city, or their ability to take trades. But lots of the higher-ranked fellowships don't want that setback, and they realize that there are plenty of people with 3-6 months of experience in the game that can fill that role.

 

[Ashrem]

If this person has the gold and supplies to cater 4 provinces to 5 stars (and also clear enough world provinces to unlock those tourney provinces), and has the gold/supplies to keep growing his city, I'm guessing he is playing alot. And knows what he's doing, or is getting really good advice from the rest of the FS.

Actually, they fight a lot. Most provinces where a heavy melee works, they take zero losses in the fist couple of rounds. But yes, we are always offering advice, and they like fighting. It only takes

And that's kind of my point. Its great if you get a recruit that is going to be online several hours a day, and can run beverage productions. And its really awesome for your FS to get this new player; they're going to be a real asset going forward. But that's not every new player - far from it. Just look at the swaths of cities abandoned in Chapter 1, 2, 3 etc. The player you referenced is in the top 0.1% of new players.

And my point (as previously stated) is that groups who are flexible succeed. That and it doesn't take months for them to become useful. You try them for a week or two, you encourage them to participate in the ways that are most advantageous for everyone, then you welcome them as permanent or suggest they look for a less active group.

And the original complaint was about high level fellowships not taking a chance on new players. Unless you have prior knowledge about a player (friend, family, etc.), or perfect foresight, most of the newbie players you accept won't be contributing like your superstar.

While my response was solely to the notion that it takes them months to contribute 1000 points to the tournament.


If you require them to have a trader, there's a fairly good chance they will be productive members. Assuming your group is willing to make the effort to help them be productive. I had 8k points when my main city joined the only FS I've ever been in. We're ranked around 10-15 on Felyndral. most of the time we don't take small cities, sometimes we do. Sometimes we take cities for a week or two and then ask them to look for a better fit. Sometimes they come back later. When i took three months off last year, I'd only been back for about a day and a half when I got an invite to rejoin.

Fellowships aren't about the individual members, they're about the group. There is no amount of points that will make a bad group function well. A good group is a joy to play in, regardless of the combined score.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Fellowships aren't about the individual members, they're about the group. There is no amount of points that will make a bad group function well. A good group is a joy to play in, regardless of the combined score.

Agree 100%

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

As an archmage, I feel it is my responsibility to track participation. I wish that Elvenar made that easier. The notifications aren't accurate because I am a very active trader. I am not concerned with rank or points. I am concerned that everyone is enjoying being a member of the fellowship. I want active participants. I know that 'balanced boosts' works best, but I would rather have a daily to bidaily player who trades with the fellowship than someone who may or may not play more than two or three times a week with the boosts we need but not the activity level we need. I am lucky enough to have great neighbors that help me with the larger trades I need.

It would be nice if Elvenar included some decent stats and tracking.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@SoulsSilhouette
Have you checked out www.elvenstats.com?
It might not have everything you are looking for(yet), but if you look at your FS there, you can see a weekly report for your entire FS

 

[DeletedUser1108]

Gotta say I never expected this thread to gain so much traction...it started with a little bit of frustrated venting and slowly built into much more than I ever expected...gotta be more circumspect about these things in the future and not blurt out a passing frustration.

 

[GracieBlue]

Not having that problem myself. It's always a struggle finding new players. I thought when we got into the top 200 we would be attracting all kinds of players who have played just long enough to know what they want in a FS (and thus we would be more attractive to them) but I get the sense that this game is dying a slow death and that an increasing percentage of the players are inactive or have quit.

 

[SoggyShorts]

an increasing percentage of the players are inactive or have quit.

This is true of all games unless there is a massive population boom. If the number of active players remains steady, then inactive players will grow as a percent of total players.

100 players have quit
100 players are active
That's 50% inactive

Then
100 players quit and
100 players start
So you still have 100 active players, but now the dead are up to 200
That's 66% inactive

While I don't believe that Elvenar is seeing a population boom, I also don't really see any evidence of it "dying a slow death".

 

[Ashrem]

don't really see any evidence of it "dying a slow death".

On the other hand, the souls of those of us who visit the forums......

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

Discussion is always a good thing. I dislike 'inactives' and wish that there was a deactivate option for people who aren't playing, especially if for some reason they need to take a hiatus from the game and would like to return to it someday. I have to say though, there was a time when my neighborhood looked like Post WW2 Europe with all the destroyed cities. Now, I have none of those and have some pretty awesome neighbors.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

@SoulsSilhouette
Have you checked out www.elvenstats.com?
It might not have everything you are looking for(yet), but if you look at your FS there, you can see a weekly report for your entire FS

I will check it out. Sometimes, I'm not so good at using sites like that, but I will try. Thank you so much for the suggestion

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

they need a thumbs down option so i can dislike the snobs in here who are anti-newplayers joining fellowships