Release Notes version 1.16

[DeletedUser3507]

Am I wrong thinking the goal is to build a city? If i am right the only way to do that is from "free" expansion from map. Sure we "over scout" for this reason if you don't you can't build a good city.

The people that don't I consider foolish, and yes I am way past what is required, I have 205 provinces, and I am in the middle of chapter 7.
And I will continue to I hit the orc limitation about 223 province, and what of it?

 

[DeletedUser43]

Thank you Areane! Much appreciated! xoxoxox

 

[DeletedUser4417]

Am I wrong thinking the goal is to build a city? If i am right the only way to do that is from "free" expansion from map. Sure we "over scout" for this reason if you don't you can't build a good city.

The people that don't I consider foolish, and yes I am way past what is required, I have 205 provinces, and I am in the middle of chapter 7.
And I will continue to I hit the orc limitation about 223 province, and what of it?

The goal is to build a city. However there is no 'only way' to accomplish that. A person can build a city based on what they get from the expansions in the tech tree and the 'sweet spot' expansions that one gets through the normal conquering of required number of provinces to unlock and progress as indicated on the # / # chest. A person can buy additional expansions should they wish, but this is optional.

You could consider a person that chooses not to do it your way as foolish but in that same vein, for the increased cost in resources to produce the increased number of troops due to the over conquer, and the increased cost and time in scouting due to over scouting that can be considered foolish. It's a two way street.

 

[Calenmir]

Sadly, they will now find another way to say it and pretend that isn't (and wasn't) what they are saying. In fact, I just read one. And whether they use those exact words or not it is exactly what is being implied. Well, I have said three times now that when this happened I was one over the limit. Then took another province after the first release (putting me two over). That shouldnt warrant what is happening to me in battle and I am a newer player. It's ridiculous.

 

[DeletedUser61]

I had stated I only knew of only 5 worlds in Elvenar, which was true at the time, but have found two more since on European Servers

If you click on the rollbar at the top center of the login page, you'll find that there are 22 regional markets, and most of them have multiple worlds.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

Sadly, they will now find another way to say it and pretend that isn't (and wasn't) what they are saying. In fact, I just read one. And whether they use those exact words or not it is exactly what is being implied. Well, I have said three times now that when this happened I was one over the limit. Then took another province after the first release (putting me two over). That shouldnt warrant what is happening to me in battle and I am a newer player. It's ridiculous.

Then if that is the case then it sounds like you need to submit a ticket for them to look at the situation. It may be that a balancing tweak is in order as something may have gotten overlooked in the coding balance of the battle upgrades. It could also be, that as the devs are seemingly taking combat to task that this is the not so subtle way of encouraging people to develop their cities first and then try combat later.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

With all lvl 19 residences and workshops etc I have no problems, I stay maxed out from the extra provinces at 21k coins ea.

Also by scouting to the max limit increase what you do produce by upping your boosted goods.

 

[Calenmir]

A ticket is needed for everyone - it's not just me. As I also said previously the balance they created is now in their favor. If their attempt was truly to create balance, they failed - miserably.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

A ticket is needed for everyone - it's not just me. As I also said previously the balance they created is now in their favor. If their attempt was truly to create balance, they failed - miserably.

Has to start somewhere Calenmir. If everyone assumes that someone else will put a ticket in, then noone knows of the problem existing and it never gets addressed. Placing a ticket brings it to their attention. They can look at one ticket and dismiss it after looking at it as a localized bug but if multiple people do it over multiple worlds and races? Balance comes, it just takes time, effort and repetition sometimes and often patience but it does come. Noone is perfect.

 

[Calenmir]

Isn't that the point of beta and feedback from beta? Which was given and ignored.

ETA: also, feedback was requested and further ignored and then anyone giving feedback that didn't favor the changes was told they played the game wrong. So we are back to the beginning.

 

[qaccy]

Missing researches with forced units change
Human cities: where are the Mortar promotion 2 and Mortar promotion 3 researches? These should be achievable in already released chapters, same as equivalent Elven Heavy Ranged unit (Golems).
Elven cities: where are the Cerberus promotion 2 and Cerberus promotion 3 researches? These should be achievable in already released chapters, same as the Human tree if these are considered equally available to both races.

Don't tell me the forced change in available units was only implemented half-baked - smh

I was wondering the same thing about Mortar upgrades, maybe they'll come later? They're definitely lacking compared to the other stage 3 human units. They have huge range which is obviously going to be a tradeoff for things like raw power and durability, but they're currently the weakest normal unit for humans on all counts except for range. 10-64% less HP than a squad of anything else, 33-66% less damage, weaker bonuses and no special abilities to speak of. Hopefully they do get some promotions somewhere down the line, even if it means reducing the stats they currently have so it balances out better (promotions tend to be rather large increases in power, and compared to what a new player would have by the time they reach the Mortar they seem like they'd be rather powerful right now).

As for the Cerberus, I feel like you guys (the dev team) flubbed up with the base training time for the Training Grounds. It takes up a Barracks slot, and as someone else noted they're not so great that they deserve to take so long to train. Either increase the speed they train at or make the Training Grounds run separately from the Barracks would be my feedback for it. As a side note: Cerberus can retaliate against up to 3 melee attacks in between their turns, which seems great but a light melee unit is about the worst one to stick that attribute on. They have bonuses against light range and mages, which would be really great to retaliate against but...those units aren't going to be close enough to hit back in almost all cases. Their stats aren't great for soaking hits either nor striking back against whatever melee units hit them, so it seems like a bit of a wasted innovation. On the other hand, since heavy melee units are designed to 'counter' heavy range and especially light melee units, I feel like they should be able to strike back more than once. As it is, it's possible to 'swarm' a heavy unit with light ones and pretty effortlessly bring them down because the new battle system puts a much larger emphasis on offensive bonuses than defensive ones. If I'm facing a battle where 6 of the 8 enemy squads are light melee units, I should be able to win pretty handily with 5 squads of Blessed Paladins regardless of what the other two squads are. As it stands though, without a defensive bonus against light melee units I lose the battle more often than I win and that doesn't really make sense with regards to the 'battle pentagon'. If heavy melee units can't beat light melee, then what's the point in using them? Mages already work far, far better against heavy ranged units so there's definitely no point sending them in against those.

Taking the above into consideration, the new battle system is still shaping up to be a lot more thoughtful and engaging than how it was previously. It just needs a bit more fine-tuning I think!

 

[DeletedUser4417]

With all lvl 19 residences and workshops etc I have no problems, I stay maxed out from the extra provinces at 21k coins ea.

Also by scouting to the max limit increase what you do produce by upping your boosted goods.

Yes, but the point was this:

Let's say a squad of troops cost 5000 of any given resource. Say it takes 3 hours to produce that amount of resources. Also that it takes 6 hours to produce that amount of troops.

As you have over conquered you have an increased difficulty as the enemy troop sizes are larger. So you end up winning the battle but lose 4.5 of your squads. That is a cost to replace of 22500 and 13.5 hours.

Now take a person that has not over-scouted. Their battle is at the normal difficulty and their losses are 2 squads. Their cost to replace that is 10,000 and 6 hours.

Due to being 'over' you cost yourself extra time and resources for the same effect. The same applies to negotiating the province. It's not about whether you stay maxxed out due to your production capabilities.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

With the new battle system - who fights.

The only place I fight is tourneys.

My boosted goods are between 550-581%

 

[Mykan]

That shouldnt warrant what is happening to me in battle and I am a newer player. It's ridiculous.

Have you checked out the new battle help thread in the forum? You may be able to find some help to get through where you are.

Isn't that the point of beta and feedback from beta? Which was given and ignored.

Some of it was ignored and some was not. There are changes coming from specific player feedback in 1.17 and more expected as people provide feedback. Sometimes it also takes a larger user base to get more varied feedback. While beta has some newer players it also has a lot of long term players who can't test battles in early eras simply because they are in the final chapters.

 

[Calenmir]

But it wasn't listened to from a long term player stand point. I've read the posts and many, who will now defend it, at the time of beta said don't do it. So I still ask what is the point of feedback if it will be ignored in beta and then further ignored after go live? Why ask for feedback at all?

No I haven't further battled (except twice in a tournament) or used any guides. The losses are devastating and the costs to replace the losses are worse (IMO) than paying to negotiate. And when I can't afford either, I no longer attempt to expand, which means my interest in this game is waning.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

But it wasn't listened to from a long term player stand point. I've read the posts and many, who will now defend it, at the time of beta said don't do it. So I still ask what is the point of feedback if it will be ignored in beta and then further ignored after go live? Why ask for feedback at all?

No I haven't further battled (except twice in a tournament) or used any guides. The losses are devastating and the costs to replace the losses are worse (IMO) than paying to negotiate. And when I can't afford either, I no longer attempt to expand, which means my interest in this game is waning.

The long and short is this: The Devs have to look at the whole of the game and what is best for that and not what a certain element within that group wants no matter the time that they have been with it. The devs likely looked at a few options before ultimately deciding on the route they did. Whichever route they chose was going to upset that element because, in the devs opinion and looking at the long term viability of the game, it was that element that the problem originated with.

 

[Calenmir]

Then my point of: don't ask for feedback if you aren't willing to listen, stands. The point is, they did not care what the players wanted, they did what they wanted, regardless of the impact - to both their purse and the players enjoyment. Will die hard players continue to play - yes some will. Will some be willing to spend money for diamonds - yes. Will they lose players willing to spend money - I suspect the number was quite surprising to them, but through all this the response was basically that they didn't care and yes that is an assumption, but given the push to continue with this I can't draw any other conclusion.

I am fully aware there is a part yet to come, but seriously, why create such a disaster (in release 1) if you fully intend to correct it in release three? Does that make any sense to anyone? Honestly?

 

[DeletedUser43]

As you have over conquered you have an increased difficulty

No one "over did" anything. We have increased difficulty because the game is now designed to give increased difficulty. If you want to discuss that, I will. I think it is a huge error for the game to have increased the difficulty, to the point of impossibility, on so many battles. This affects every player at every level and it is driving people away from fighting on all different stages of the game. Some will quit completely because of it. The fighting system is simply too hard for a city building game. Maybe it is appropriate for a major battle type game, but this isn't that. We have that. It is called Forge of Empires. Why compete with yourself?

Now they are trying to drive people away from negotiating, since that is all that is left, by destroying the wholesaler on beta. No more buying goods you need with coins.

It is like the gov...they break your legs and then try to sell you crutches at a discount. Oooh....you poor people in this situation...we will offer you this to get out of it. Well, who put the players in that position?

Due to being 'over' you cost yourself extra time and resources for the same effect.

No. Due to the devs writing the code the way they have they are costing players extra time and resources. Either you sit there for weeks with your scouts idle so you are at the "right level" or you send your scouts out an it takes them weeks to do the scouting, you are still sitting there for a long time with nothing to do.

It is bad to have a game of who can twiddle the most thumbs.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

No one "over did" anything.

Ahh but they have and contrary to your opinion it is a thing. If it was not then the difficulty would remain constant for a person of the same size, tech and chapter but it clearly does not.

This affects every player at every level and it is driving people away from fighting on all different stages of the game. Some will quit completely because of it. The fighting system is simply too hard for a city building game.

Again you judge something based upon an incomplete picture.

No. Due to the devs writing the code the way they have they are costing players extra time and resources. Either you sit there for weeks with your scouts idle so you are at the "right level" or you send your scouts out an it takes them weeks to do the scouting, you are still sitting there for a long time with nothing to do.

The devs wrote the code the way they did to bring a balance to the game. Sure it erected obstacles but it did not make the game unplayable to anyone. You simply have to alter what and how you do things. Would you have preferred they take an alternate route to achieve the same result? Probably not. You are looking short term, they are looking long term at the whole of the game, not just a small segment of it.

Then my point of: don't ask for feedback if you aren't willing to listen, stands. The point is, they did not care what the players wanted, they did what they wanted, regardless of the impact - to both their purse and the players enjoyment. Will die hard players continue to play - yes some will. Will some be willing to spend money for diamonds - yes. Will they lose players willing to spend money - I suspect the number was quite surprising to them, but through all this the response was basically that they didn't care and yes that is an assumption, but given the push to continue with this I can't draw any other conclusion.

I am fully aware there is a part yet to come, but seriously, why create such a disaster (in release 1) if you fully intend to correct it in release three? Does that make any sense to anyone? Honestly?

They have already explained why they did this. Honestly the wait is NOT that long. From phase 1 to phase 3 you are talking maybe 6 weeks, maybe. The best way to describe it is this:

When you put forth a large thing and there is a problem, you now have a HUGE area to cover to look for that problem but implemented in stages, the area is much smaller to search for the problem. One does not assemble an untested car and then test it. One does so in parts, tests the parts and then assembles it for release. It is then sold and driven and even then there are problems discovered that could not be anticipated.

 

[DeletedUser43]

The Devs have to look at the whole of the game and what is best for that and not what a certain element within that group wants no matter the time that they have been with it. The devs likely looked at a few options before ultimately deciding on the route they did. Whichever route they chose was going to upset that element because, in the devs opinion and looking at the long term viability of the game, it was that element that the problem originated with.

That element? Wow. What a totally obnoxious thing to say. Heck, it isn't even accurate. They have stopped EVERY player at every level of the game from fighting as much as they could before because they are trying to extract more money in expansion sales. End of story.

"it was that element that the problem originated with." So, it was customers that fubarred the game because they played it? You sure have your blame in the wrong place. Any problems with the game are on the devs. The devs wrote the game. If they couldn't anticipate how people will play it and what types of incentives get you what kinds of actions, they were be in the wrong business. That is part of writing a game. But the devs aren't as stupid as you keep implying they were. They knew what they were doing. All this is about is money. You know this because they sell ways for people to be "that element". After the game had been out being tested for a while, they looked at player behavior and found where people spend money, so they tightened that choke point. I think they are pushing too hard and choking too tight. That is what this all about. How much to choke. If you want to discuss that, then go right ahead. Consistently blaming players for being active is to miss the point completely.


Btw....the devs do not look at the game and decide what is best for the game, they decide what is the best way to extract money from individuals. They can provide a really terrible game and still extract money. Careful what you are supporting. They most certainly do NOT have the same goals as players. We want fun. They want money. The two CAN overlap in a Venn diagram, but they often do not.

Part 2 is out here and part 3 is out on beta. All pieces of the package out. They wanted fewer people to be able to battle and they got their goal. They are now nerfing negotiating too because, as I said, their goal is to sell more expansions. I think they are making the game too expensive to be attractive.