DeletedUser3507
Guest
Some peoples kids seem to love to argue even if there wrong.
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Your Elvenar Team
Calenmir
Well-Known Member
I'll say again that they were warned before they set it out there for everyone. They were told before they released it to not release it but they did anyway, so I will ask yet again why ask for feedback if you don't intend to listen? In fact, I'll go so far as to ask why even bother to beta test?
DeletedUser4671
Guest
If you want to fight about who is more wrong, take it to PM.
DeletedUser4417
Guest
You beta test to look for bugs, glitches, errors. To test new content. To check playability. As has been stated before the Beta test community is not large and I would wager represents in large part long term players.
DeletedUser1621
Guest
While I do not play in beta, I follow that forum closely for advanced information purposes - I like to know what's coming. Unfortunately, since I don't play in beta, I am unable to participate in the associated forum. That being said I do have some opinions in regards to the statements above. These are not meant to be an attack, but just respectfully offering an alternative point-of-view.
1. Part 3 in beta cannot possibly be the last part of the "package" (regardless of the original announcement stating it would be in 3 stages). Since that release does not include a second Mortar promotion research to provide "Mortar III" units to Human players (or the Sinister Cerberus upgrade for Elves), there will need to be AT LEAST one more release to complete those parts of the puzzle. No telling what additional modifications to units/battlesystem will be included in that bundle.
2. I disagree that negotiating is being nerfed - assuming that was in reference to the changes to the Wholesaler in the Trader. Having given those changes quite a bit of thought, I honestly can't disagree with the changes as I find most of it makes sense - though not for the "reasons" provided by the mods in that forum. For one thing, I think it really would be quite an exaggeration to say that the Wholesaler plays a "vital" role in either Tournament catering or province negotiations, and that anybody that managed to arrange their city resources to make this critical to the catering/negotiation process success is precisely one of the reasons why the devs saw the need to change it. I'm not going to go into that whole idea or explanation at the moment though, because that release hasn't hit here yet - and I am withholding further public commentary around that topic until such time as it is released here. If you are actually interested to know my thoughts on that, feel free to message me directly and I'll be happy to share them.
3. I am not convinced their goal is, in fact, to sell more expansions. If that were truly the case, for the right amount of diamonds (money) it would be possible to buy a bigger map that would hold more expansions. Diamonds always have been, and continue to be, the quick and/or easy way out. Don't want to wait for research? Buy it with Diamonds. Want to get more culture from your buildings? Buy one. Need more population without using up your valuable real-estate for more residences? Buy magic houses or premium culture that gives population. Yes, Inno is a business, and their goals should include making money. Nowhere is it required to pay to play in Elvenar. Can you buy your way to the top of the player rankings? Of course you can. Can you build your city without spending money? Absolutely.
The real question at hand IMHO is really this: Can you keep playing a game where they can (AND DO!) keep changing the rules on you? That's up to you. Nowhere do the released changes make the game unplayable (though bugs do creep in at times and make it play not as expected). They can, and often do, however, make it so that you can't always continue to play the game exactly as you have been doing. That is what makes it a change.
I can't say that I have always been thrilled with the changes. In my current state, I have chosen to pretty much put all my city growth on hold until the full Battle System package has been released, as I haven't been interested in continuously needing to readjust strategies while they are still in flux. Fortunately my cities are in a somewhat stable part of the game/research tree and I can do minor upgrades to fill some time while things settle out. But, I do believe that most of the changes are part of a more balanced game. I definitely am sympathetic to the very long-time players that tend to be the most adversely affected when significant changes are made when some of these restrictions, limitations, and caps did not exist. I agree it would have been a lot more convenient and provide for a happier playing environment if the restrictions had all been completely thought out ahead of time, in all possible scenarios, and with god-like prescience. Unfortunately, Inno only employs human developers, AFAIK. Obviously the dev aren't idiots, but neither are we players idiots (ok, some of us might be LOL but many are not). In any group of people with different viewpoints and objectives and experiences, not everyone thinks of everything - otherwise the concept of brainstorming would never have needed to be invented. However, in this case, all I mean is that there's no possible way the devs can have thought everything that all players might think of when building the game. We're smart cookies, and we'll find things they didn't expect, build shortcuts they didn't know existed or didn't see until they were there. Sometimes they take away the shortcuts once they know about them. *shrugs* Does it suck for the ones using those shortcuts when their stolen? Abso-f-ing-lutely. Just because it sucks, however, does not mean it is a bad thing for the game.
My power, as a player/customer (paying or otherwise) is in fact, limited. I really have only two choices. First, do I choose to continue to play the game? Second, if I play, do I choose to spend money on it? I always have these two choices, and am free to exercise them at any time. I don't think it is honestly a stretch to say that Inno devs have reasons for making the changes that they do, although as a players I can't say I do (nor expect to) always agree with the changes, or the reasoning behind them. Do I get annoyed and frustrated over it sometimes? Sure I do. Then I exercise my freewill to decide if I will continue to play or not. By choosing to continue, I am accepting to play the game, as it exists at that time. If I can't accept that, the choice becomes obvious.
DeletedUser43
Guest
Define this for me. I don't know what that means. What is being "balanced"?
I like a lot of what you said btw.
Calenmir
Well-Known Member
None of that answers my question.
DeletedUser61
Guest
I'm mostly replowing the same field, but here goes.
Elvenar is a VERY complex model, and the really interesting thing about City Builders is that folks can and WILL take off in weird unexpected directions just because they can. City Builders, as a group, are as independent as a hog on ice.
CONSTRAINTS are what provides the puzzles and makes it a game.
If you don't want any constraints, then go grab a piece of blank paper.
The "surprise" changes in the Wholesaler, that are currently in Beta Build 1.17 is a perfect example of how the developers use analytical data.
It's like pruning grapevines. You'll get better wine if you prune the vines skillfully. It's actually a pretty good analogy. See http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/fruits/grapes/prune-grape-vine.htm
So that folks will have a chance to unlock the techs and get some troops trained. When the final bit drops into place then you'll be ready to roll as soon as you build the last building and train a few of the newest troops
How high is up?
And they're allowing the same players to keep the resources that have suddenly become more expensive.
This is no more true than saying exactly the opposite, which would be that the players are fighting in the tournaments because they all refuse to buy any expansion. Neither extreme is true. It's reasonable to volunteer YOUR motives, but ascribing motives to other people is pretty much pointless, and actually says more about your motives than theirs. Your statement is akin to saying that you need a gun because everybody else has a gun.
The developers have a TON of analytical information regarding player activities, see https://www.adjust.com/in-app-event-tracking/
Elvenar is a VERY complex model, and the really interesting thing about City Builders is that folks can and WILL take off in weird unexpected directions just because they can. City Builders, as a group, are as independent as a hog on ice.
The opposite statement would be that YOU DON'T CARE what's best for the game, so long as you can avoid buying any diamonds. Neither statement is true, nor useful.
No, their goal is to tighten up the game and make folks think about what they are doing.
CONSTRAINTS are what provides the puzzles and makes it a game.
If you don't want any constraints, then go grab a piece of blank paper.
The "surprise" changes in the Wholesaler, that are currently in Beta Build 1.17 is a perfect example of how the developers use analytical data.
- For the folks who were buying 500 or so units per week, there's no change in price
- The folks who were buying 1000s of units per week, and then using them to negotiate/cater, will see prices that are 20% higher each time they repeat a particular purchase, with a reset every week or so.
It's like pruning grapevines. You'll get better wine if you prune the vines skillfully. It's actually a pretty good analogy. See http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/fruits/grapes/prune-grape-vine.htm
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DeletedUser1621
Guest
I look at Elvenar as a game having multiple layers, but a the basic core of it comes down simply to resource management. "Balanced" to me means managing all available resources so that your city doesn't become lop-sided by heavily favoring any particular type of resources over the others. With Elvenar, your choice of playing style (more aggressive/fighting or more pacifistic/negotiating), will lead to a city generally favoring some types over others, but not to extremes. Within those choices though, there are still additional levels to be balanced, such as tier 1 vs tier 2 vs tier 3 goods, for example.
Example Resource levels:
Base level resource: available space to put stuff, which generally is the means to have other resources to manage. This is increased through expansions.
Knowledge resources: kps and research. These determine what type of stuff are available to be acquired at any given time.
Growth resources: population and culture. These control, in conjunction with the base resource, how much other stuff you can have in your city.
Basic resources: Coins and supplies. These determine what other stuff are you able to place in your city now. Think of them as price tags.
Trading resources: Goods (all three tiers, that become available at different stages of the game). These get added on to the price tags, dealer mark-up maybe? LOL
Guest Race resources: Short-term resources only, as applicable per guest race. Generally favor use for advancement of Knowledge resources, but do often get included to certain types of stuff such as roads. As such, balance is only important for smooth progress of research, and long-term management is not required.
Anyway, you get the idea and have been playing much longer than I have, so let me move on to the actual point (LOL). I don't mean to suggest you are playing an out of balance city. I am suggesting that the game itself is out of balance. This is what the devs are driving to fix.
The orc requirement beginning in ring 10 that was released awhile back was implemented to supplement the earlier hard cap for provinces - the hard cap being the cost (in coins) of scouting a province combined with the maximum capacity of the Main Hall. This IMO was done to address the problem of the limited map. The issue at hand (and is still a problem for the most advanced players) is that between those available through the research tree and those available through completion of provinces, more expansions are available to the players than the map will hold - even after additions to map to hold more expansions. Particularly when the available premium expansions are taken into account. Yes, they did change the way the premium expansions are made available to players (31 available from the start all at once), but this is not a negative in my book. Long term, this leads to fewer premium expansions available to players than the original algorithm (X to start, plus main hall level plus whatever etc - I didn't feel like looking for it and I'm sure someone else will be happy to provide if necessary), because new chapters will continue to be developed and released and Main Hall levels will increase accordingly. And ultimately, the map will still be limited. This did slow down some players, but not all, and not those most advanced and able to produce the new required...let's just call it the new requirement because calling them goods still leaves a bad taste...in very short order.
The next problem is that the above change also really only addressed those that favored negotiation over fighting. Those advanced in fighting techniques weren't slowed one little bit by the above attempt. Hence, these players still basically have unlimited potential for growth up to the original coins hard cap, that was already determined to be an insufficient limit of expansions to the available map. So, next phase, Battle System rewrite. Weaken units, adjust combat squad size ratios to make fights unwinnable in fact, and not just due to poor technique. Go ahead and reduce the cost because you'll be losing them in droves compared to before. Is the pentagram a better one than what existed before? *shrugs* I think once it's all fully implemented, a solid set of strategies will be developed by the player base to make them fight-able, and from other Inno games was an engine and design they already had available to build off. Even under the old system, the most successful fighting was done through unit type match-ups and strategic techniques. The old system is was a lot more forgiving in poor match-up alignment than the new one because of the capabilities of some of the units. Doesn't mean I'm not sad to see the invincible Sorceresses disappear, but realistically shouldn't be surprised. Instant cap on available expansions to those following the fighting path. Sure there are other ways this could have been addressed, but most of those would not have made the game any more interesting. The new Battle System, does make things a lot more challenging for those that like to fight. And it is possible that the challenges for the fairy units were a driving factor to use the other engine. For those that don't fight, what difference does it make if it changed or not? (not including the auto-fight option, because really, it always sucked as an option LOL). The orc requirement? If you fight your provinces, you don't care. If you're a negotiator that hasn't reached Orc chapter and armory upgrade, the progress is going to be slower than you experienced before, but can't *really* be any worse than slogging through Dwarves anyway waiting for all the needed copper/granite, and what can I do with the extra kps while I wait for more freaking granite?
But, now what? Oh, darn it, the orc requirement noted above is only a temporary delay. The other compounding problem is that when the game was designed and released, there was (and continues to be) no limit on goods storage capacity in your cities (like they capped granite and copper capacity for dwarven goods for example). Once we've got those armories upgraded halfway to the moon, we can produce that now, and off we go, negotiating to our heart's content again. No limit on our expansions once again, woohoo! Hold your horses there a minute, sonny, those devs aren't done just yet. Between manufactories, Ancient Wonder bonuses, Wholesaler purchases and cross-tier trading, we players can obtain virtually unlimited amounts of goods to negotiate those provinces (minus the orc requirement) and we're right back to square one. But those crafty devs can't be finished just yet if we still have unlimited goods available to players. Wholesaler changes are coming, but I do not expect it to stop there. And I like some of those changes because they help address some of the imbalances in the goods tiers. They could have added a cap on the MH for goods and then just jacked up the prices of the provinces so you can't afford them. This is the equivalent of what they did to the fighters with the change to the battle system, with the exception that the squad sizes were always limited. Capping goods wouldn't have made anybody any happier, plus what limit do they impose when some players already have millions of goods in inventory. Do they take them away in that case if you already have more than the cap? A grace period to spend down? Ugly either way.
Moral of the story, IMO, is that the game has yet to find a feasible method to address the reality of a limited map and the potential for unlimited provinces and thus unlimited expansions, which is compounded by the ability to acquire unlimited resources. Until they provide and implement a workable, long-term solution to these original oversights, I expect we will continue to find temporary road-blocks placed in front of us along the way. Until then, the game will continue to be out of balance.
DeletedUser43
Guest
Yeah. They have scouts. The sent out the scouts. That is so weird!! Come on Kat. That is so silly.
Except they sell expansions and sell people more room. Are you saying that anyone who gives Inno money for expansions isn't getting a "game"? That too is so silly. We have the puzzle of figuring out how to build things in the room we have. We want more room which is how the game is played.
That doesn't make sense. But I was wrong to bring up something that hasn't happened here yet so no one knows what we are talking about. If they do make that change here, you will just see even more people quitting. Another drinking game anyone?
I appreciate your long post WickedShads, but none of it is borne out.
It doesn't make sense to simultaneously say we need more balance players have more expansions than the entire world map can hold at the exact same time they suddenly made 33 expansions to everyone as long as they pay for them and then claim this isn't about getting more money.
I don't know where you get this. Most players were slowed ages ago by fighting. I know I sure was. I don't think I have won but a fight here and there on the world map in over a year. We were all saying it was wayyyyy too hard. It was always too hard once you got further out except for the best fighters in the entire Elvenar population. Maybe Goryn and a few others could still find a way to win. At least it was theoretically possible. But so what? Even if you could fight the provinces, it still takes days to unlock a new one. So what if you win a few fights every few days. And you can't say it is because they don't have room on the world map because if this is so, then they can't sell expansions either and yet they do.
Again, you can't have both. You do have a cap and always have had one and that means you can't have unlimited growth potential. You also only have so much space on the grid on your city. You forgot that cap too. Anyone who buys the expansions hits that cap immediately.
Some fights will be winnable, of course, but they have said they did so that some people would have unwinnable fights at every stage. If you are a new player who has been here a week, you can now face unwinnable fights. Players will quit because of that and we need to keep every player who stays here longer than the time to build one house, because that is when most go away.....the second they open the game. Look at the tens of thousands of players with a score of zero. Tens of thousands. We need to keep people playing the game. Make the fights too hard and suddenly you are out of players.
Except the scouting limits, and the limits on the number of expansions you can place in your city. We have lots of limits.
The only thing the new limits do is make it so the spenders have TONS more room than the non spenders. They don't have any trouble with "balance" as long as you pay through the nose. No issues with not enough limits. No problems with not having a game to figure out. All the spenders have plenty of puzzle.
If they had limited all players then what you said might be a possible motive, but they didn't limit all players. They only limited the people who aren't buying expansions. No cash...no space for you. Cash...here...let me lay that expansion gently at your feet.
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DeletedUser1621
Guest
I think you misunderstood a significant portion of my post. What I was referring to as a limited map is exactly the city space not the world/province map. The city space is limited by the number of expansions it will hold. Spenders are in fact actually hurt more by this and will have their game limited more quickly by having expansions earned or completed in the tech tree with no ability to place them because all of the city space is full. I can't even say how many times I've read in these forums posts from players complaining they have expansions that they can't use because their grid is full, at the same time others are screaming for more expansions to be included in the game - before a release added a new row or column of additional expansion slots to the city space. The coins cap was proven to be insufficient precisely because of player's inability to place/use earned and/or purchased expansions with that cap in place. They've expanded that space with the new chapter releases without adding any more premium expansions. Overall, what is out of alignment is the the ability to acquire more than the city will let you use. Diamonds do not solve this, only give you more space to use sooner. In the end, the total possible expansions the city will hold is still limited and that's what evens it out whether or not expansions were purchased, researched, or earned.
There is little to be done to prevent players already beyond where this limit should have existed other than to purposefully make the passage beyond that threshold impossible to win against. Yes, I agree the changes were too aggressive for new players - I should not have to face orc generals in the very first ring of provinces! I do think they will tweak some of the earlier provinces for exactly that reason. But the later provinces I don't expect to change. To be blunt, they need to place a limit on the total possible expansions a player can obtain at any given point in the game for the game to have a longer term growth - and that limit needs to be held to at or below whatever absolute maximum city space expansion grid count they intend to have. I suppose at that point your statement that if you pay for it you may be able to have more space than non-payers, if all possible expansions are less than the total number the city space will hold, but that is not true today. Today it is still possible to go past that point since they still have NOT prevented it for negotiations, despite the orc requirement, because of the unlimited goods that can be acquired. Yes the required goods can get quite expensive, but still not impossible to reach without additional changes. I expect this will be the next major change.
However - if - the total number of premium expansions never increases, and 1 or 2 or 10 chapters from now we are still here playing the game, and the city space map has had another row, or column, or both a couple of times along the way as they have done in the last few chapter releases, I do expect that the "space advantage" you're up in arms about now becomes even less relevant, as each of these chapters makes outward province movement closer to possible. Although for some that have like 400 provinces completed, it might not be until that 10th "next chapter".
Ideally there were better ways to handle it that could have easily addressed this, and much cleaner, but should have been far long ago in the game's development. Simplest solution would simply have been to limit the city space size as a function of research level. Complete advanced scouts research, get scout cost reduction, get easier fights, and get a new row/column of possible expansions to the map. If you filled them with bought expansions, well that's still as far as you can go until the next unlock. Unfortunately it wasn't done that way.
In any case, again, I completely sympathize with your position of being unable to further progress your game as you had been previously able to do. If I had been playing for as long as you have and as far as you and suddenly it seems like I have no ability to move forward besides watching the kps tick by, I would be quite upset as well.
I'm not here to argue the choice/benefits/fairness of purchasing diamonds or not, merely suggesting that the specific purpose of the release and changes to the fighting system and trader aren't necessarily to "get players to purchase more expansions."
There is little to be done to prevent players already beyond where this limit should have existed other than to purposefully make the passage beyond that threshold impossible to win against. Yes, I agree the changes were too aggressive for new players - I should not have to face orc generals in the very first ring of provinces! I do think they will tweak some of the earlier provinces for exactly that reason. But the later provinces I don't expect to change. To be blunt, they need to place a limit on the total possible expansions a player can obtain at any given point in the game for the game to have a longer term growth - and that limit needs to be held to at or below whatever absolute maximum city space expansion grid count they intend to have. I suppose at that point your statement that if you pay for it you may be able to have more space than non-payers, if all possible expansions are less than the total number the city space will hold, but that is not true today. Today it is still possible to go past that point since they still have NOT prevented it for negotiations, despite the orc requirement, because of the unlimited goods that can be acquired. Yes the required goods can get quite expensive, but still not impossible to reach without additional changes. I expect this will be the next major change.
However - if - the total number of premium expansions never increases, and 1 or 2 or 10 chapters from now we are still here playing the game, and the city space map has had another row, or column, or both a couple of times along the way as they have done in the last few chapter releases, I do expect that the "space advantage" you're up in arms about now becomes even less relevant, as each of these chapters makes outward province movement closer to possible. Although for some that have like 400 provinces completed, it might not be until that 10th "next chapter".
Ideally there were better ways to handle it that could have easily addressed this, and much cleaner, but should have been far long ago in the game's development. Simplest solution would simply have been to limit the city space size as a function of research level. Complete advanced scouts research, get scout cost reduction, get easier fights, and get a new row/column of possible expansions to the map. If you filled them with bought expansions, well that's still as far as you can go until the next unlock. Unfortunately it wasn't done that way.
In any case, again, I completely sympathize with your position of being unable to further progress your game as you had been previously able to do. If I had been playing for as long as you have and as far as you and suddenly it seems like I have no ability to move forward besides watching the kps tick by, I would be quite upset as well.
I'm not here to argue the choice/benefits/fairness of purchasing diamonds or not, merely suggesting that the specific purpose of the release and changes to the fighting system and trader aren't necessarily to "get players to purchase more expansions."
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DeletedUser43
Guest
With the old limits in play it would take a player 5 years or more to get all the expansions available right now if they never add another row. But we know they are adding more rows, so that isn't a cap either. I am not understanding you. When they add more space that will add more years to each of the players.
The only players who are were unlimited were the spenders and these changes don't affect them.
DeletedUser
Guest
WickedShads - I can get behind your definition of balanced, but where the devs & other commenters here lose me is that all these changes that have taken place have now put my city in a far more UNBALANCED situation than I ever did myself.
We can type til the cows come home (and in fact, I have on older posts) about what choices come into play when deciding how many factories, workshops, armories, etc to build. How what is too much for one player is not enough for another, depending on where they might be on the Research Tree or whether their FS produces enough of a certain good or not. But ultimately, if a player is choosing to negotiate some provinces & fight others, trades regularly & fairly, and produces enough coin & supplies to run their factories & barracks, then that's pretty well balanced in my book. Also, I will add that "balanced" to me also means that a player is *relatively* on equal footing in the province rings. Meaning, they are not exploring Ring 12 on the SE side while only at Ring 6 to the north.
People on this forum have gone back & forth about whether a player should have the ability to only trade & negotiate or if they should try to focus more on fighting. I can see how those playing styles would be considered unbalanced by other players or by the devs, so I'm really only talking now about players, myself included, who fall into my previous idea of balanced, as said above.
Anyway, the updates from the game of late may all have a PURPOSE that I acknowledge may be NECESSARY* to the game (*at least, in the eyes of the devs). IE, I don't like the fact that they are trying to put a cap on province exploration either via the Orc Cost they introduced, or by these new battle restrictions/more difficult battles, but I acknowledge that the devs view it differently. My points on any of these updates really boil down to saying that I think these changes could have been put into place WITHOUT completely halting the progress of many advanced players. For example, they say my scouts are "too far ahead" but devs acknowledge this is through no fault of any players - well, how about instead of these players having to wait months (or a year!) to catch up to the Research Tree in order to complete provinces, what about brainstorming and coming up with an idea like creating a "scout boost" province in Ring 13ish that, once reached, provides a discount scouting cost to that player and/or lowers the squad sizes in provinces scouted from that point on. The boost could equal out/disappear when that player does eventually catch up to the Tech Tree. It gives the player something to work towards themselves to get their game back onto more even ground, rather than counting the days & the clock to catch up with the Tech Tree, which really, can continually be extended since devs can add Tech on any upgrade.
I mean, reaching the Orc Cost while still in Dwarves was certainly brought to the attention of devs & mods both in beta & here when that upgrade happened. Many have been speaking out now, including myself, about how not being able to fight OR negotiate in provinces (severely outnumbered squad sizes that the devs have said are designed to be unwinnable fights, plus can't pay the Orc costs yet), so that limits our ability to complete quests (fight & win in 3 provinces/complete a province), limits our ability to earn runes, relics (needed for spells!) & KPs, decreases our ability to reach trade partners & earn coin and supplies for visits, and really just makes a large chunk of the game actually unplayable - and it IS unplayable right now.
Sure, sure - I hear people muttering about how there's other ways to earn KP or runes now (tournaments), but it's not like a province where a player can just do so when they are online & have time. It's on a strict schedule & only lasts a certain amount of time - if you can't make it during those times, you are deprived of the chances.
Again, my long-winded point is really just that devs COULD find ways to keep active, long-term players engaged during these so-called NECESSARY* (*at least in the eyes of the devs) changes - they just don't seem to want to, which is certainly where a segment of my own frustration comes in.
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DeletedUser4839
Guest
I have had several difficulties in all of my worlds with the recent changes. I've only been playing for 6 months or so but all of these changes have caused massive setbacks for me. For my two cities (one elf, one human) I had to sell one of my advanced training just to get the new training grounds. I haven't been able to win any battles and my reserves of goods have been depleted due to having to buy provinces so that I can get more land. Land was already a precious resource before all of the changes. I am at the point in one land where I can't upgrade any of my production buildings to get more resources to buy provinces because I have no more room and the level my army will not beat the new fairies. So I'm stuck. Also, I just started a new city just about a month ago and it has been very difficult to advance there as well. I feel I was just starting to get my feet under me when the fairy changes came in. Also, having to go back and spend all of those knowledge points for the new squad upgrades and such made all of this even worse. It would have been helpful to have a little more time between releases or some sort of compensation for all of the havoc that we are contending with. Don't know if I am posting this in the right place, but have just been so frustrated and would really like to have fun playing the game as opposed to the chore it is getting to be.
Maz Mellor
Well-Known Member
THIS.
Buttrflwr
Well-Known Member
Not quite true.
You know how I feel about this whole update, I have made it clear enough. If you don't, let me expound.
I started this game a month and a half ago, liked it, dropped a few $$ into it to get that third builder and a few diamonds, played a little more, kept liking it, dropped a little more money into it. Let me get to the point. The whole reason (for me) of hating the fact that I can't battle anymore, other than in the first dang level of a 1, 2, or 3 tourney slot, is because I NEED MORE ROOM. That, and trying to reach trade partners, were the only real reasons I battled. (OH, and the KP for research)
Yes, I liked the battles, but on limited time (I have a life and a job) I couldn't spend all day on the game fighting, so I would fight the easier ones, negotiate the remaining in a province. I dropped a buck on the game, because I LIKED THE GAME. It got to where I was having to negotiate more and more, so I took to purchasing the expansions for diamonds when I had to upgrade and expand. They started at 450, which is about $5 US. Now, I am looking at 1,000 for an expansion, which is $11 US. To me, that is ridiculous for a 5x5 plot in a game meant for fun. I mean, it's not Park Place, for heaven's sake. So, yeah...it does affect some of us that don't have infinitely deep pockets. I say all that to say this, I liked the game, so I dropped $$ into it so I could play the game, the way I wanted to. THen, one day, I wake up, and suddenly I have a different game, one I can not really play anymore. Basically all I can do is collect resources, and spend literally HOURS rearranging and selling stuff to make up for room I desperately need for upgrades.
NOW I read that you (Inno) are taking the WHOLESALER OUT OF THE TRADER????? ARE YOU CRAZY??? This is NOT the game I started playing, the game I have paid to play.
I have started an account on the beta server because I do NOT want anymore nasty surprises. No, I won't spend a DIME on that account, nor will I spend another dime on the one I have here until something gives. LISTEN TO YOUR PLAYER BASE, PLEASE!
And Lionsmane, don't you DARE say I outscouted myself. I only did what they allowed me to do, as they allowed me to do it, without having a clue I was scouting myself out of the game.
I thought it was GOOD to have more neighbors to trade with, and more expansions to unlock. And that's all I have to say about that, for now. I was very careful about this and went in a circle, except for a couple of times when I was trying to reach someone, but I ALWAYS went back and filled in on the other side. NOW however, since they moved me...there is NOBODY to my South and West, so once I do start scouting again, it would be almost pointless to go South or West. Sigh...
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DeletedUser43
Guest
Sorry Buttrflwr, I meant limited by the amount of places they are allowed to explore. You are absolutely right. They have crushed the game you were playing. I am so sorry. That is why I will never spend a dime with Inno. They do things like this ALL the time.
Buttrflwr
Well-Known Member
*hugs* BK. We'll get through this, one way or another.
Maz Mellor
Well-Known Member
Completely agree about the Mortar. I just took a squad of Mortars out for a spin in a tournament encounter. This was a 2nd round encounter in the first (nearest) ring of provinces. I was using the Mortars to attack the Thieves—i.e., heavy range > light melee, just like the pentagon advises. Well, the first hit by my Mortars killed ZERO Thieves. That's right—an entire squad full of healthy, well-rested bruisers armed with great big bazookas couldn't kill a single Thief. Never mind the pentagon; my Priest IIs did five times better against the Thieves than the Mortars did!! What gives, lads?!
[For comparison: in my elven city in Arendyll, the analogous strategy (Archers for the Thornrose Mages, Sorceresses for the Swamp Monsters and Thug-orcs [or whatever they're really called], and Golems for the Thieves) totally works!]
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