Release notes version 1.22

[JeanFritz]

You could do this.... But it goes against section 7 of the games rules as in regards to inviting yourself, and even might be considered pushing maybe

Sorry, did I seem to be suggesting that I would try it? Not likely. The game is fun, but increasingly frustrating--and just not worth the effort.

 

[Gath Of Baal]

Sorry, did I seem to be suggesting that I would try it? Not likely. The game is fun, but increasingly frustrating--and just not worth the effort.

I didn't mean to imply that you would try it... But you know how some people are after reading that ... "wow that is a great idea, I need to try that", to only cause themselves distress when the rules catch up to them later down the road

 

[JeanFritz]

I didn't mean to imply that you would try it... But you know how some people are after reading that ... "wow that is a great idea, I need to try that", to only cause themselves distress when the rules catch up to them later down the road

Gotcha. Good point.

 

[Ashrem]

Nice in principle, and perhaps it does work for some--but here's the thing: you need to be in contact with these people, first.

I didn't suggest you ought to do it, or that it would be convenient enough for you. Merely pointed out that forming a fellowship with people in your area isn't (in my opinion) a useful strategy.

Of course, you ignored the part where I said

Because I wasn't trying to advise you on how to play the game, just pointing out what I think is a better strategy for building a fellowship that might be worth other people seeing. This is a public conversation, and there might be people reading who have joined a fellowship with their explored neighbors and are gaining nothing from it but the ability to chat. If i have non-general information to convey to someone, I'll do it in a pm.

Some people think that if someone is going to reply to something someone else said, they have some kind of obligation to address every point the other person made, but that's not how I roll. If I think I have something potentially useful to say, I'll say it. And if I don't have anything to say about the rest of their post, I won't waste anybody's time.

 

[JeanFritz]

... And if I don't have anything to say about the rest of their post, I won't waste anybody's time.

Well, that's fine and dandy except that "the rest of the post" tends to render null and void the point you're pushing.

You have a great idea for how the fellowships should work, and I'd be in full support of encouraging other players to try it--except that I think most players who do try it will end up disappointed and frustrated (as per what the other points I was making were in reference to) and stop playing as a result. Otherwise, I agree: if you can offer a better strategy that will help other people, then great. This whole thread is in response to the changes made regarding the new wholesaler, though, which you said doesn't really affect you... so, you're basically trying to get people to accept the changes as inconsequential... which, from the majority of the comments here, most of us do not agree with. Thanks anyway.

 

[Ashrem]

Well, that's fine and dandy except that "the rest of the post" tends to render null and void the point you're pushing.

That your experience has been difficult does not render null and void the point. Different people will have different degrees of success with almost any choice, because if there was only one successful path, people wouldn't be making the other choice.

You have a great idea for how the fellowships should work, and I'd be in full support of encouraging other players to try it--except that I think most players who do try it will end up disappointed and frustrated (as per what the other points I was making were in reference to) and stop playing as a result.

Whereas I think that the method you described for choosing fellowships is a path of least resistance. Only a small amount of effort is required to look for fellowships that are in the 20/25 to 24/25 member range, with medium-points and a wide variety of individual scores. To my mind, those represent dynamic groups that are looking for an active fellowship, rather than the best possible score, and are likely to welcome an eager new player who contacts them. I'm not sure why they'd probably be disappointed and frustrated. Certainly, at the moment, with thousands of players leaving over the changes to the wholesaler (sarcasm intended), there must be lots of fellowships with sudden openings for active players.

This whole thread is in response to the changes made regarding the new wholesaler, though, which you said doesn't really affect you... so, you're basically trying to get people to accept the changes as inconsequential... which, from the majority of the comments here, most of us do not agree with. Thanks anyway.

A large majority of this thread is focused on that change, but not the whole thread, the thread is for discussion of all the changes that were implemented in the last update.

You are mischaracterizing my position, possibly becasue you haven't read the dozens of messages from teh last week. Actually, I've said several times the changes to the wholesaler have affected me, just not as much as many people, and I've adapted my play to it. I've also never said, nor implied, that the changes were inconsequential, only that they have a greater and lesser affects on different players. I am not at all interested in convincing anyone that the changes are inconsequential. What I have said is that I think the consequences will be good for the game, though painful for many players.

You're welcome, anyway.

 

[JeanFritz]

Fine. You make good points; however, it's not been my experience, nor, it would seem, that of most of the other posters here. "Painful but good" is not usually something most people want in a *game*, and honestly, Inno really should be concerned about what so many players think. As to there being more than one successful path, well, from reading most of this thread, Inno doesn't seem to want there to be. (And yes, I've read most of what's been posted here, pretty much since this thread started.)

I'm posting here because the support team told me to, because the developers "read and value" our opinions (or so they say). I post what I experience; you obviously disagree with the experiences and opinions of many people here who find that the new wholesaler is just another step in the wrong direction, however.

My apologies for sounding less than friendly; I hope that you continue to enjoy the game.

 

[Ashrem]

Fine. You make good points; however, it's not been my experience, nor, it would seem, that of most of the other posters here. [stuff removed]and honestly, Inno really should be concerned about what so many players think.

I always try to keep in mind that there are certain truisms about forums. 1) that they reflect the opinions of a very small subset of the players that probably reflects a trend, but... 2) that they are usually made up of a few die-hard who like the forums and a bunch of people who are upset. The majority of participants are currently the latter. People who aren't upset and weren't already interested in the forums have no reason to come here. I expect that there are more people who are upset than who think it's a good thing, but we have no concept of how many just don't care.

"Painful but good" is not usually something most people want in a *game*

Most players want to win (whatever is most identifiable as "winning" for that game). They don't care if their winning is good for the long term success of the game or not. What most players wants is not always, or even frequently, what will cause the game to be popular and successful in the long run.

As to there being more than one successful path, well, from reading most of this thread, Inno doesn't seem to want there to be. (And yes, I've read most of what's been posted here, pretty much since this thread started.)

As long as you know a lot of the conversation has gone on in other threads.
Inno hasn't really said anything in the forums in the last week, so what they want, regarding paths to play, remains a mystery to all of us for the moment. The fact they haven't jumped in to tell people they're right or wrong doesn't actually say anything.

I'm posting here because the support team told me to, because the developers "read and value" our opinions (or so they say). I post what I experience; you obviously disagree with the experiences and opinions of many people here who find that the new wholesaler is just another step in the wrong direction, however.

To be a bit more precise, while I do disagree with their opinions about whether the change is good, I don't disagree with their experiences, nor about their opinions of whether the changes have been inconvenient for them. And while I hope my opinions are valid, I'm perfectly okay if it turns out they aren't.

My apologies for sounding less than friendly; I hope that you continue to enjoy the game.

Understood, and appreciated. The results of the wholesaler changes and this discussion will not be a deciding factor for me, regardless of how it turns out.

 

[Mykan]

Even if I find a FS that advertises its boosts so I know where to apply, there's no guarantee that the number of each boost in any way reflects what is actually produced in quantity and out of 20+ listed boosts, more than half are usually lower-level players who can't hope to meet my production needs.

It certainly can be tricky to find a balanced FS, especially as many fellowships do not provide information regarding boosts (it can also be out-of-date). From my experience as a member and an arch of different fellowships with a variety of low to high era members (therefore varied production) the ideal boost mix seems to be between 6-10 of any particular type. You can get away with as low as 4 but really rely on some big members to hold the production up. I have always found under 6 the fellowship struggles for a certain good and over 10 it is noticeably in surplus, even 10 can be noticeable if they are all top members in the fellowship.

I have also found that once a member obtains all 3 goods their production is usually decent for a reasonable amount of trading. A major benefit of being in a fellowship that is scattered a bit around the world map is every member has a different neighbourhood which can influence the trading a lot. As an example I spent about 12 months in canyon of goldmines and what towns weren't goldmines were inactive except 2. At the time our fellowship was struggling for marble production but it surprisingly was my location that assisted a great deal as 1 of those 2 people had a fellowship in marble surplus and we spoke to each other and acted as conduits for trading between the 2 fellowships. I am aware other people have also had the experience of trading between fellowships thru 2 people on a map.

You can't always predict what will work in a fellowship and the arch and mages really have to work if they want a balanced fellowship in terms of boosts but the benefits really do help everyone in the fellowship.

 

[Gath Of Baal]

A major benefit of being in a fellowship that is scattered a bit around the world map is every member has a different neighbourhood which can influence the trading a lot.

Amen to that... The first fellowship I was in , 16 of the members I could see on my explored world map.. Trades sat until they expired because the fellowship trades where also all the neighborhood trades... It was cool to see everybody so close together on the world map, and in hindsight , that was probably the only reason I joined them, well that and also I did not know any better at the time since I was new.. The wholesaler was the only way at the time I could move forward..

But I agree totally, the more spread out the better

 

[DeletedUser2963]

What you're missing here, is that it takes effort and/or luck just to find a fellowship where everybody gets along and doesn't ignore NH courtesies and has similar goals and can follow the same rules (pretty much what I posted above).

No one is missing this point, your right it does take time and effort to find a FS that will fit your play style. What most of the people responding to you have missed is :

So: "look for a more balanced FS" is a trite and rather useless suggestion for anybody who has better things to do with their gaming time than searching for and trying out FS after FS in the hopes that "maybe this one will work for me".

Your play style does not include putting forth the effort required to find a balanced FS. Several of your comments have made it clear that the idea of going through that process is agonizing and hateful to you(you equated it with job hunting...ack!!)
My play style makes finding a balanced FS a primary goal. I have spent hours looking through the FS lists, reading descriptions, mailing AMs and Mages. Much as it will baffle you, I had fun doing it. I have been playing for around 8 months and in that time have been in 3 FS. I still mail several members in each group check rankings and cheer progress. When a trade imbalance occurs in a FS I view myself as part of the problem and view leaving as an opportunity for the AM to bring in a member that will be part of the solution and benefit the whole FS.
Different strokes.
I understand that the idea of going through all of that is unpleasant to you, please try to understand that it is not unpleasant to all players.

 

[DeletedUser4587]

I had my first player threaten to quit today. It wasn't over any changes to the game but the servers going down so often.

Ahhhhh. And here I thought it was my PC even after giving it a good looking over. Seems to me that Inno being in this business would have a "Master Brain" that would avoid these troubles. I even wrote Inno about it and go their usual lame excuses and trying to throw it back at me that it was my PC...which it probably is to a small degree. But that does not negate the fact that their streaming, etc is sub-par.

I have been avoiding the issue, because I was not impacted. I think that was a mistake so here is my input:

This game is dying! I love this game and I have been playing for over 8 months. This game is dying and has been dying since before I started playing. The Devs are making changes in an effort to attract and retain new players. The biggest push is Fellowship participation. New players have to join a FS to play in tournaments, with the whole seller change they need a Fellowship to help balance goods.

The developers have access to data that I do not have. As much as I question some choices I am willing to trust that they are looking at net gains that I cannot see. I love this game and will put up with pretty much any change that keeps it alive and gains more players. I think the FS push is a good path. A well balanced FS is the solution to every goods issue in the game.

If you are in a well balanced FS, you don't need the whole seller at all. If you are not in a well balanced FS I suggest you find one.

No offense given here but I disagree with your assessment that if you have a fully functioning fellowship that we wouldn't need the wholesaler. Take into consideration if you will the fact that some fellowships members have the same exact or the same 2 out of three boosted goods. I am have 3 cities and 2 of those cities fit in that category. My big one and one of my small ones and let me tell you we feel the crunch with this new wholesaler. Our Arch Mage tries very hard to make it so he could help the smaller cities in our FS now he too feels the crunch. We also help each other out almost religiously as well as do HH's with neighbors and FS.
Also, what this does is enables those who do "No Star" trades to rake in the goods that others are FORCED to trade for...they can pretty much name their price if they so choose. Many of those are big diamond buyers as witnessed by the "diamonds only" cultural buildings. I realize that each individual can either choose to roll with the No Star traders or not. The point is this, if you need those goods to upgrade, expand, complete researches in order to move forward then you will eventually succumb to these traders who are waiting to grab those extra goods that WE ALL work hard to produce to begin with and they certainly give a lot less than what they receive. I say this because I have already witnessed the effect it has had on my fellow team mates big and small in regards to being able to help each other because of the similarities we have in boosted goods. In my larger city I was a hefty diamond buyer...for awhile. I started noticing Inno's laxness and their ploys to draw more players into buying diamonds. The developers of Dragons of Atlantis did the very same thing and eventually DoA was no longer playable because it wasn't there anymore. The mass majority quit the game. This past year it has renewed after being out of commission for roughly 2 years. I hope at least those developers learned their lesson in trying to corner people into buying diamonds by shiest-y methods. It doesn't pay to crap on those who feed you.

No one is missing this point, your right it does take time and effort to find a FS that will fit your play style. What most of the people responding to you have missed is :

Your play style does not include putting forth the effort required to find a balanced FS. Several of your comments have made it clear that the idea of going through that process is agonizing and hateful to you(you equated it with job hunting...ack!!)
My play style makes finding a balanced FS a primary goal. I have spent hours looking through the FS lists, reading descriptions, mailing AMs and Mages. Much as it will baffle you, I had fun doing it. I have been playing for around 8 months and in that time have been in 3 FS. I still mail several members in each group check rankings and cheer progress. When a trade imbalance occurs in a FS I view myself as part of the problem and view leaving as an opportunity for the AM to bring in a member that will be part of the solution and benefit the whole FS.
Different strokes.
I understand that the idea of going through all of that is unpleasant to you, please try to understand that it is not unpleasant to all players.

I for one am very very fortunate in the fact that I was invited and accepted a fellowship that turned out to be wonderful...great people there and we communicate. I was also invited by the same Arch Mage to join one of his other FS...and I accepted. Why? Because he always looks out for his team mates, is understanding, and has a good group of people to work and play with. Now with this Wholesaler despite our Arch Mages efforts as well as our own it has gotten tough. It does pay to look into FS's -- 1 or 2 whenever you get on takes no real time and because you made the effort you'll probably hit the jackpot. I know I did. In fact, I've been contemplating leaving and the ONLY reason why I keep hanging in there is because of 2 of my FS's {I have 3}.

 

[JeanFritz]

I'm happy that some of you find such great fellowships, and I'm happy that some players actually enjoy fellowship-hunting. For me, well, I was attracted to the idea of a FANTASY CITY BUILDER game (which is how it's advertised, no?). I'm here for fantasy city building. Trading, sure; neighbourly help, no problem; tournaments, more and more meh, but ok; battles, used to be fun, now absolutely not; fellowships for social interaction and helping out with trades and stuff, yeah, it can be fun, but it's really not the primary goal for fantasy city building, now is it?

It still comes to this: even if I check out a couple fellowships every day, there is still no way to tell from the outside whether a fellowship will trade fairly or meet my needs or be in any way cooperative. It's unreasonable to expect players of a fantasy city builder to try fellowship after fellowship just to find one where (again) everybody gets along and doesn't ignore NH courtesies and has similar goals and can follow the same rules and needs my boosts and and and. Sure, a "perfect" fellowship isn't absolutely required to enjoy the game, but a bad fellowship can make it no fun to play, and something else that a lot of people do not find fun is trying FS after FS after FS. (Yeah, I get it, some people do enjoy that. You'd think those fantasy sports games, with the team building and trading and all that, would be a better place for that kind of thing, but if Inno is pushing FS-hunting here then it's great that you like it.)

I don't see much point in my commenting any further, here. Thanks to all who have offered advice; thanks to Inno for providing a game that is still kind of fun; thanks to everybody else who will continue to post comments here in the hopes that Inno will take player concerns into consideration. If anybody knows about other games that could fill my fantasy city builder-needs (basically, looking for "Elvenar before the combat/wholesaler/etc. nerfs"), that might be a helpful thing to add to the discussion.

 

[DeletedUser637]

If anybody knows about other games that could fill my fantasy city builder-needs (basically, looking for "Elvenar before the combat/wholesaler/etc. nerfs"), that might be a helpful thing to add to the discussion.

Yes, please... here, PM, ingame msg...

 

[DeletedUser4587]

What bothers me most is that it seems the Dev's and INNO don't care, we receive no feedback from them on why they are doing this other than a "canned" one. Tell us the truth "we want more money" "we want to slow you down" "we don't care what you think"

Anything would be good at least then we as consumers can make reasonable decisions

I'm happy that some of you find such great fellowships, and I'm happy that some players actually enjoy fellowship-hunting. For me, well, I was attracted to the idea of a FANTASY CITY BUILDER game (which is how it's advertised, no?). I'm here for fantasy city building. Trading, sure; neighbourly help, no problem; tournaments, more and more meh, but ok; battles, used to be fun, now absolutely not; fellowships for social interaction and helping out with trades and stuff, yeah, it can be fun, but it's really not the primary goal for fantasy city building, now is it?

It still comes to this: even if I check out a couple fellowships every day, there is still no way to tell from the outside whether a fellowship will trade fairly or meet my needs or be in any way cooperative. It's unreasonable to expect players of a fantasy city builder to try fellowship after fellowship just to find one where (again) everybody gets along and doesn't ignore NH courtesies and has similar goals and can follow the same rules and needs my boosts and and and. Sure, a "perfect" fellowship isn't absolutely required to enjoy the game, but a bad fellowship can make it no fun to play, and something else that a lot of people do not find fun is trying FS after FS after FS. (Yeah, I get it, some people do enjoy that. You'd think those fantasy sports games, with the team building and trading and all that, would be a better place for that kind of thing, but if Inno is pushing FS-hunting here then it's great that you like it.)

I don't see much point in my commenting any further, here. Thanks to all who have offered advice; thanks to Inno for providing a game that is still kind of fun; thanks to everybody else who will continue to post comments here in the hopes that Inno will take player concerns into consideration. If anybody knows about other games that could fill my fantasy city builder-needs (basically, looking for "Elvenar before the combat/wholesaler/etc. nerfs"), that might be a helpful thing to add to the discussion.

Whoa whoa whoa. Take a deep breath. I only mentioned how fortunate I was. I was NOT saying a fellowship is for you or that you'd better join one. I can see where it might not suit everyone. Whether unreasonable or not it is still a personal choice we each make. That's called "free will". Also, if you didn't happen to notice I was just trying to be friendly...or is friendly hard to recognize or another thing you aren't looking for? Forget what I just wrote. I reread what you wrote and it sounds like your just into the playing of the game and that's cool too. But just to let you know anytime you don't like an FS you're/all of us, are free to leave. I personally respect your choice after all it is your choice. But please do not belittle those of us in FS's who also like to interact with other human beings. We still get that....and more. I've found a friend here. A really good and honest person. That beats fantasy any day. All the best to you and happy gaming~ Delicia

 

[JeanFritz]

Whoa whoa whoa. Take a deep breath. I only mentioned how fortunate I was. I was NOT saying a fellowship is for you or that you'd better join one. I can see where it might not suit everyone. Whether unreasonable or not it is still a personal choice we each make. That's called "free will". Also, if you didn't happen to notice I was just trying to be friendly...or is friendly hard to recognize or another thing you aren't looking for? Forget what I just wrote. I reread what you wrote and it sounds like your just into the playing of the game and that's cool too. But just to let you know anytime you don't like an FS you're/all of us, are free to leave. I personally respect your choice after all it is your choice. But please do not belittle those of us in FS's who also like to interact with other human beings. We still get that....and more. I've found a friend here. A really good and honest person. That beats fantasy any day. All the best to you and happy gaming~ Delicia

Erm... not sure how what I wrote was misunderstood, but my apologies. I too was being friendly. (Deep breath? Sorry, where's that from?) I was in no way belittling those in fellowships for interaction. My point was that human interaction *should* be the main purpose of the fellowships, not just "which group of goods producers out there can benefit me the most". Human interaction is why I do NOT want to try FS after FS in the hopes of finding the "right" one--I like the people in the FS I'm in. However, the FS I'm in can not meet my production needs. Hence, the frustration from the new wholesaler. (...which has been the whole point of everything I've written here so far.)

 

[DeletedUser2963]

@Doflandseaandsky

Spoiler: Derailment ahead

Don't mean to derail but wanted to address:

Your comments about zero star trades. Allot of the zero star trades you see on the market are push trades. If I need to pass goods to a player, I tell them to post a zero star. If I put up a really sweet 3 star for them, someone else might take it off the market. If they put up a really bad 0 star, no one is going to touch it. I do trades like this allot, and so do, haha, the people I trade with. I have received snarky mails about it from several players in game and each of those mails resulted in new trade partners for me(once I explained that I am not in fact a tool)...until I moved...I lost all my first neighbors and some of them were great! Just saying

End Derailement

As for your FS, glad you landed in gold. I have been in 3 and they each have some pretty amazing people in them.

 

[DeletedUser4784]

yeah they keep telling they want to balance the wholesale!
Well when i need almost 20 times the wholesale cause people stopped trading certain goods
not even a ninkyō dantai would charge a 6224% increase.
that means i need to spend 59904000 coins on 3000 gems!
I can only imagine the brain is malfunctioning on the people that came up with the idea, and had the guts to implement it on the game.
Well i have found another way of using my space, that was intended for granite mines!

Spoiler: Too Large

 

[Tauriel Dragonwood]

All this may be well and good, we'll see. What I want to know is why they aren't fixing the bug on the banshee research. I'm tired of seeing the red line on my research book.

Aye, the game developers need to fix a lot of things instead of making the game harder to play. The Banshee and Dryads are the only two units I cannot see on the battlefield. All I see are their squad numbers. What in the name of hobbits is causing this graphic disturbance?

 

[DeletedUser6655]

Please put the wholeseller back the way it was i need those high goods cause i am so low that my troops are not able to win any battles to get providences . this was a terrible decision on the devs part. almost to the point of quitting this game. you make it too hard to advance.

YES .. PLEASE bring the wholeseller back to the way it was. I had used the purchase 100 goods and 500 goods many many times (not to mention I used the purchase 20 goods many times) ... ppl just aren't trading in the goods I need and the wholeseller was an effective way to get the goods I needed. Now, I have to wait up to 2 days to harvest the goods I need (and that's putting the manufactory on 3 hr production time). Do I need to say I do NOT like the current wholeseller?? And have only used it sparingly?