Should winning FA prizes be a competition?

[SoggyShorts]

First, let's work on the assumption* that the next FA will be better, with desirable prizes regardless of chapter, and a better interface for quests. (EDIT: hahahah, hahahaha, hahahha )

Now onto the reason for this thread:

The Fellowship Adventures have added something to Elvenar that was previously not here: A PvP-like element.**
While other players do not directly take buildings from you in the FA, by getting a higher score than you do they are effectively doing just that. A significant number of players have chosen Elvenar specifically because it does not have a PvP element.

In the FA your success(or failure) to win an additional building or instant is largely based on how well others do.
While the amount of effort that you and your FS put in is still the most important factor in how well you do, it may not be the deciding factor in your results.

As an example, if you get 1st place with 15,000 points on one server, and 4th place with 15,000 points on another server you get fewer rewards largely due to something that you had no control over. In one case you get the best building available to be won, and in the other (for the exact same level of effort) you get no additional building.

Perhaps additional buildings or better instants should be granted based on passing certain score thresholds, rather than getting a higher score than other fellowships.

I'm also worried that having competition like this will hurt the community of sharing we currently enjoy. If other fellowships doing well means that you get fewer rewards, why would you share guides, and give tips to anyone outside your FS?

I think the FS ranking system in the FA should remain, with ranking points being awarded for higher scores so that those who want to increase their rank can continue to do so, but the prizes should be separate from this.

*Yes, I know about assuming, but if the next FA doesn't have some improvements, it may make this irrelevant.
**Yes, the tournaments are competitive, and give ranking points, but that is different in that someone else's success has no effect on your city.

 

[DeletedUser3640]

Agreed. Especially since diamonds can be used to gain more score (or to compensate for inactivity of members, doesn't matter how to put it). But... I'm also competitive, and thus consider competition to be a good thing.

I think that leaderboard should remain as it is and those in top 3 should receive better rewards... Just not event buildings - let's say more instants, KPs, spells, ranking points.

There's no need to make some kind of weird score thresholds. Stages are basically thresholds on their own. It's just that regular rewards (buildings) for completing them were quite bad, and stages were too easy to complete. Medium increase in difficulty and better rewards could be a solution to this problem.

Yes, the tournaments are competitive, and give ranking points, but that is different in that someone else's success has no effect on your city.

Didn't quite get this. How's other fellowships success in FA affecting your city?

 

[The Unbeliever]

Add more prizes to the various levels themselves.

Keep ranking scores & the PvP element, but change out the event 'grand prize' buildings for only the top 3 to other prize packs, such as the suggested bonus kp's/runeshards/broken shards/instants/etc...

Otherwise, the vast majority of fellowships are just going to ignore this new feature, as many players will be reluctant to put in a metric gaktone of effort for laughably gakky rewards.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Didn't quite get this. How's other fellowships success in FA affecting your city?

If you get 15,000 points, do you win a building? Totally depends on the other fellowships. That's the part I don't like. At least in Tournaments if you get 40,000 points you win a blueprint. It doesn't matter what any other FS does, just yours.

 

[TiMiTy16]

I had a thought that maybe the level of difficulty for the FSA should be based on your current FS standing. If your average FS rank is within the high 1/3 of those in your world, you have harder quests to perform than those in the middle 1/3 and the easiest to get through is the teams in the lower 1/3

There is no way for an FS with too many smaller cities (members) can compete with some of these FS that complete all three stages in the FIRST day!!!!

 

[DeletedUser4195]

First, let's work on the assumption* that the next FA will be better, with desirable prizes regardless of chapter, and a better interface for quests.

While I agree with the idea of a better interface for the quests I'm not sure what you mean by desirable prizes regardless of chapter. Nothing is different in the FA regarding 'prizes' than they have been in any other event.

While other players do not directly take buildings from you in the FA, by getting a higher score than you do they are effectively doing just that. A significant number of players have chosen Elvenar specifically because it does not have a PvP element.

Any fellowship working together, is as capable as the next, of winning the top prizes. That's the key though...working together. Because our FS is a group of very competitive people somehow we're 'taking' something from someone else if we are lucky enough to place in the top three spots? I really like how you word things...PvP element...it's not even remotely similar to PvP. If people don't want to compete against any other FS they don't have to. They can work as fast or slow, easy or hard as they desire. One thing this FA will do is get people communicating and working together as one cohesive unit. That is a good thing. Rewards are secondary!

In the FA your success(or failure) to win an additional building or instant is largely based on how well others do.

NO. Your success(or failure) to win an additional building or instant is only based on how well YOU do.

While the amount of effort that you and your FS put in is still the most important factor in how well you do, it may not be the deciding factor in your results.

It is the only factor!

As an example, if you get 1st place with 15,000 points on one server, and 4th place with 15,000 points on another server you get fewer rewards largely due to something that you had no control over. In one case you get the best building available to be won, and in the other (for the exact same level of effort) you get no additional building.

That's correct. On one server the competition may be tougher than on another. Nobody on any server has any control over the level of competition they will face. You cannot expect the competition to be the same across all servers. That is simply ridiculous!

Perhaps additional buildings or better instants should be granted based on passing certain score thresholds, rather than getting a higher score than other fellowships.

This has already been implemented by giving everyone easily attainable rewards simply for completing one path in any stage. If people want better rewards then they will have to work for them.

I'm also worried that having competition like this will hurt the community of sharing we currently enjoy. If other fellowships doing well means that you get fewer rewards, why would you share guides, and give tips to anyone outside your FS?

Again you skew the facts to fit your viewpoint. Other fellowships doing well means that they get the rewards for their efforts, as it should be. Nobody is taking anything from you. Your fellowship simply isn't working as hard as those that are ahead of you are. If someone decides not to share guides or tips to anyone outside of their fellowship that is, and always has been, an option available to anyone. The world will keep revolving even if someone becomes bitter or petty. Our FS had no guides, tips or advance knowledge of any part of the Fellowship Adventure, yet we are currently in first place on our server. It all comes down to working together, communicating and being a team. This Adventure has brought us together even more than we were before. We have our strategy for the next one already in place.

I think the FS ranking system in the FA should remain, with ranking points being awarded for higher scores so that those who want to increase their rank can continue to do so, but the prizes should be separate from this.

At first, we didn't even understand what the points meant or how they would be applied, nor did we care. That's how concerned we are about rank. Our fellowship saw the Rise of Phoenix and said collectively, "We want that." So, you want to keep the prizes separate from ranking points. Okay, no problem with that, but how would you achieve the prize? You offer no viable alternative to the method that's in place. How would you do it?

**Yes, the tournaments are competitive, and give ranking points, but that is different in that someone else's success has no effect on your city.

How do you come to the conclusion that someone else's success has an effect on your city? This is definitely a point I will readily argue with anyone.

 

[DeletedUser5776]

Maybe I'm biased, because my FS is doing really well in FA and looks like it will get 1st on Elyc, but I don't see a problem with a FS-based competition.

1) Participation is optional. You don't *need* to participate if its not your thing.

2) It can help people find like-minded FSs. There are no other way to find FS that are active and coordinate events. Maybe if there was a FS-based tournament aggregation that would help, but this is literally the only thing available right now to find well coordinated FSs.

3) Individuals can still get decent prices for just completing all 3 stages. Getting the top places is icing on the cake. If they want to do better next time, find a different FS that is more like-minded (see #2 above), or learn from mistakes in this and coordinate better next time.

4) There are still plenty of individual-based events. There are plenty of things in this game that are individual based, like all the normal events, the city-building itself, etc. ... a fellowship-based competition every so often, even if its once per month, isn't a bad thing. There's plenty to keep you occupied.

 

[Ashrem]

NO. Your success(or failure) to win an additional building or instant is only based on how well YOU do.
How do you come to the conclusion that someone else's success has an effect on your city? This is definitely a point I will readily argue with anyone.

There are only three top prizes available on each server. That means only three teams will win those buildings, no matter how hard anyone works. There are only 100 sets of instants available on each server. That means that every other group on the server, regardless of how well they do the event, can not win those 100 prizes.

 

[Ashrem]

Maybe I'm biased, because my FS is doing really well in FA and looks like it will get 1st on Elyc, but I don't see a problem with a FS-based competition.

We're all biased. The difference is that there is nothing else about Elvenar that pits players against each other and matters. Rank is without value except to those who care. Better buildings are useful to everyone. This event is a game changer in terms of how the game is played. If they want to attract a crowd that wants to beat other people, this will do it. It is likely to drive away players who don't like being beaten. Those are two different categories of player, and they are changing the focus of the game.

 

[DeletedUser5776]

We're all biased. The difference is that there is nothing else about Elvenar that pits players against each other and matters. Rank is without value except to those who care. Better buildings are useful to everyone. This event is a game changer in terms of how the game is played. If they want to attract a crowd that wants to beat other people, this will do it. It is likely to drive away players who don't like being beaten. Those are two different categories of player, and they are changing the focus of the game.

People play for different reasons ... and if someone *is* looking for something remotely-like PvP, or FSvFS, previously there were no options. Now there is ...and its 100% optional for those not interested .

On a different note, I'm personally glad for having earned a cool building by not having to spend diamonds ... the Phoenix is going to look cool, because I don't spend diamonds on events, so there was NO way I was going to earn that previously, without being extremely lucky. Its a way for people to earn cool buildings a different way.

 

[Ashrem]

People play for different reasons ... and if someone *is* looking for something remotely-like PvP, or FSvFS, previously there were no options. Now there is ...and its 100% optional for those not interested

Says a biased person who expects to get a top prize. We've got people annoyed that there are prizes they can't possibly win without being prepared to throw an infinite number of resources at it. In a game where up until this week, every prize was possible to obtain for every player if they wanted it badly enough for known expenditure of resources.

 

[samidodamage]

My take: There are plenty of games out there that provide PvP for players who like that type of game play. Why try to take a successful game that attracts players who don't care for the PvP and start making it just like all the rest...
I get that the subtle differences between competition in the tournaments vs competition for buildings you can place in your city is hard for some people to wrap their heads around. I'll try stating it another way:
In the tournament, every single FS could win the 10th chest with the required effort. In the FA, only one FS can win the Rise of Phoenix. While not exactly PvP, it is at least FS vs FS or Guild vs Guild.

 

[DeletedUser4195]

There are only three top prizes available on each server. That means only three teams will win those buildings, no matter how hard anyone works. That means that every other group on the server can not win those prizes.

That's exactly right! The three fellowships that work the hardest win. Even the Olympic Games has only three prizes. Gold, Silver and Bronze. If you want to be in one of the top three spots you can. How? Work harder than everyone else. We did.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Breann
Big surprise. It's like you didn't even read the post.

I'm not sure what you mean by desirable prizes regardless of chapter. Nothing is different in the FA regarding 'prizes' than they have been in any other event.

Based on the feedback from dozens of players across all forums(and simple math) the Orc nest and mana hut were not desirable prizes for those in chapters 1-7. This effects whether fellowships will care about the FA at all. At the beginning of the post I was asking everyone to assume that they are interested in all the prizes going forward.

Any fellowship working together, is as capable as the next, of winning the top prizes.

Is it really? Every FS has the same amount of space? I'm pretty sure that fellowships who bought expansions, especially when the limit was 32 not 23 has larger cities.

NO. Your success(or failure) to win an additional building or instant is only based on how well YOU do.

I'm not sure you understand how a competition works. If you run the 100m dash, your finish time is based completely on how fast you run. If you are racing against other players, your position across the finish line is also based on how fast they run.

You cannot expect the competition to be the same across all servers. That is simply ridiculous!

Is it? The rewards you get from the tournaments is exactly the same across all servers.....

This has already been implemented by giving everyone easily attainable rewards simply for completing one path in any stage. If people want better rewards then they will have to work for them.

But not just "work harder for them" Work harder than others. And you are assuming that the playing field is even, which it is not. You can buy badges with diamonds, you can buy expansions with diamonds, you can complete productions with diamonds.

This Adventure has brought us together even more than we were before. We have our strategy for the next one already in place.

This is also true for my FS, and I enjoyed the event. The fact is though we can clearly see that regardless of our efforts, there will always be at least 3 fellowships that have larger cities with more room for buildings that will always beat us.

You offer no viable alternative to the method that's in place. How would you do it?

As I stated in the original post, (In size 5 font bigger than the rest of the post)the viable alternative would be like in tournaments- a points threshold.

How do you come to the conclusion that someone else's success has an effect on your city? This is definitely a point I will readily argue with anyone.

There are only 3 buildings won by ranking. Can you honestly not see how other fellowships factor in to whether your FS gets one?
Really? I mean...... come on.

 

[DeletedUser5776]

Says a biased person who expects to get a top prize. We've got people annoyed that there are prizes they can't possibly win without being prepared to throw an infinite number of resources at it. In a game where up until this week, every prize was possible to obtain for every player if they wanted it badly enough for known expenditure of resources.

Yep, already prefaced my very first post on this thread that I was likely biased. However, bottom line is this is an "extra" thing that no one needs to participate it. Maybe I'm biased in different areas as well, but I also believe that not everyone is entitled to get every prize, and I'm fine with not every FS getting the top reward. If you want a better rank next time, plan better in your FS or find a different FS that also wants it more. If you are in a FS that wants it more than you want to participate in it, consider finding another FS that is less interested in it. Or do neither because its just an occasional thing and not the primary focus of this game at all, and move on. Honestly even if I wasn't going to get top prize, I'd be happy with what my rewards were, because I felt we did the best we could.

 

[Ashrem]

Yep, already prefaced my very first post on this thread that I was likely biased. However, bottom line is this is an "extra" thing that no one needs to participate it. Maybe I'm biased in different areas as well, but I also believe that not everyone is entitled to get every prize, and I'm fine with not every FS getting the top reward. If you want a better rank next time, plan better in your FS or find a different FS that also wants it more. If you are in a FS that wants it more than you want to participate in it, consider finding another FS that is less interested in it. Or do neither because its just an occasional thing and not the primary focus of this game at all, and move on. Honestly even if I wasn't going to get top prize, I'd be happy with what my rewards were, because I felt we did the best we could.

You're missing the point entirely. This is a shift in the game. The game has changed course in mid-play from catering to people who don't want to compete against others, to having elements that are only available if you are willing to compete and prepared to do whatever it takes to make it to the top. There's nothing wrong with that kind of game. Whether or not that type of game is a good thing is irrelevant to this discussion. People who have played a particular game for up to two years (or more) and may have thrown thousands of dollars at it are now faced with the potential of content that they can only get if they are better than everyone else and willing to do whatever it takes to be on top. In previous events, they could decide "I want that prize, and if I spend $500.00 on diamonds I will get that prize." Now, they might spend $500.00 only to have three other groups spend $600.00 and now they won't get that prize unless they are willing to keep coughing up more money until one of the other groups chickens out. If they chicken out first, it doesn't matter if they spent $500, or $5000, they won't get the prize.

 

[DeletedUser5776]

You're missing the point entirely. This is a shift in the game. The game has changed course in mid-play from catering to people who don't want to compete against others, to having elements that are only available if you are willing to compete and prepared to do whatever it takes to make it to the top. There's nothing wrong with that kind of game. Whether or not that type of game is a good thing is irrelevant to this discussion. People who have played a particular game for up to two years (or more) and may have thrown thousands of dollars at it are now faced with the potential of content that they can only get if they are better than everyone else and willing to do whatever it takes to be on top. In previous events, they could decide "I want that prize, and if I spend $500.00 on diamonds I will get that prize." Now, they might spend $500.00 only to have three other groups spend $600.00 and now they won't get that prize unless they are willing to keep coughing up more money until one of the other groups chickens out. If they chicken out first, it doesn't matter if they spent $500, or $5000, they won't get the prize.

Nope, not missing your point at all, its that we're disagreeing. I *don't* think that its a shift in the game ... its an additional content that is completely optional to participate in. All that other content people played for 2 years is still there. You are personally also overlooking that these "extra" buildings for the top FS *are not new* and were previously available through other means. The "top" buildings (Rise of the Phoenix, Purple Egg, and Mysterious Egg) are duplicates from previous events, that were available other ways . The Mana hut, that IS new for this event, is very available even if your FS is not a top FS.

 

[Ashrem]

Nope, not missing your point at all, its that we're disagreeing. I *don't* think that its a shift in the game ... its an additional content that is completely optional to participate in. All that other content people played for 2 years is still there. You are personally also overlooking that these "extra" buildings for the top FS *are not new* and were previously available through other means. The "top" buildings are duplicates from previous events, that were available other ways .

I'm afraid you are. Additional content that is not available to everyone is exactly a change in the game because it has never existed before. That pretty much defines change.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I also believe that not everyone is entitled to get every prize, and I'm fine with not every FS getting the top reward.

I think everyone is entitled to get a reward if they put in a set amount of effort. Everything else in the game works that way.

its an additional content that is completely optional to participate in

This is a real cop-out. We all want content. We all enjoy something new. If it only appeals to certain player types that means less appealing content for the rest.
Let me be clear: I like the FA. I like the teamwork. Having more to do in the game is good. Having the game be more FS oriented is something I personally like. A fundamental shift in the game from personal effort=reward to comparative effort/spending is a big deal, and not the game I've been playing for over a year.

 

[DeletedUser5776]

I'm afraid you are. Additional content that is not available to everyone is exactly a change in the game because it has never existed before. That pretty much defines change.

Going to have to agree to disagree, I think on that point ... because the content IS available to everyone. The top prizes were available to 100% individual events previously.