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    Your Elvenar Team

Discussion Spire of Eternity feedback

RandomNo.

Well-Known Member
Are you talking about seeing how many resources you have available of what is asked for when using the diplomacy option?
You should be able to see how much you have of each (coins, supplies, goods) by hovering over the icon of each one of them (at least on PC/browser).
it works in a pinch, but what would be even better is to see all goods so I know how is my goods situation overall. Two reasons:

1. if I'm low on say, only 1 good in a tier, I know I can balance them and still be OK, so I might be comfortable going further in the current run
2. it's just that much easier to see everything at a glance rather than mousing-over the boxes one by one

currently my solution is exit the spire to look at my goods ratio, but it's cumbersome and doesn't work when you're in the middle of an encounter
 

RandomNo.

Well-Known Member
Okay I completed the Spire for the first time and here are some feedback:

Background:
I started level one of the Spire on Monday morning and ended it on Thursday evening, with 12 h to spare. In that same time, I have also completed my weekly tournament involvement (I did 180 rounds spread over 45 provinces this week).

1. Gameplay

Overall: Gameplay is straightforward but not easy. I've had to somewhat scale back my tournament involvement this week so as not to decimate my resources, from 198 rounds to 180 rounds - a roughly 10% decrease - which I find to be a reasonable compromise. The most difficult part was having enough troops for the "Fight" option. Detailed feedback on each option:

1a) Convince option
- I used this option the most because the Fight option had too large squad sizes and I rarely had enough troops for it
- I like the puzzle aspect of the Convince option. It's a game of logic to me. It felt good when I guessed it correctly
- There is some risk involved. If I knew for certain I can't solve it after the 2nd attempt, I quit and restart.
- A slight reduction, say 10%, in goods required for the convince option would make it more comfortable. Particularly, the number of Orcs required should be substantially lowered, as Orcs are produced very slowly even at endgame.

1b) Fight option
- I like the idea of waves. It throws a challenge into how you pick your units - many times, you have to think it through, you can't get away with just choosing a single unit type and auto-fight it off.
- Manual fighting can be the key between a win/lose here, and lack of it is a big disadvantage to mobile players using the Fight option
- My biggest complaint is the Squad Size calculation. I don't mind the fights being more challenging and would have liked to choose this more, but as I rarely had enough units to fight with even though I trained units 24/7, I seldom was able to.
- Squad size should be reduced by at least 25% for this option to be more viable

1c) Use of Diamonds
- I used diamonds occasionally, when I was very or almost certain I could guess the right combination in the Convince option if I bought another turn. I also earned some diamonds. I didn't keep track of how many diamonds I spent in total, minus those earned, but it wasn't a big amount. My estimate is somewhere around 150 diamonds, and I will try to keep a record next time

2. Prizes

Overall, the prizes were decent for me. I got a lot of Time Instants, Crafting Materials and fortunately, 4/5 of the Moonstone Library Set. I did not like that the mystery chest could appear in a place you could not reach until you cleared more of the gauntlet. This should be changed.

2a) Time Instants
- These were handy and essential. I use a majority of them to speed up my troop training. Most of the troops went to the Tournament though, so you could say this prized helped me more in the tournament than anything else. I was tempted to use some of them to open the doors early, but troop training was more essential.

2b) Crafting Materials
- I like these quite a lot. I craft a lot and have been running low on spells to disenchant, even though I get at least 70 a week via tournaments. Also, CC takes very long to produce even with a L5 Magic Academy. When I ended the Spire I had 11.5k fragments and 23 CC (I produced and used some during the period, so I think it's more or less balanced out), so I won't have to worry about crafting materials for a while

2c) Moonstone Library Set
- combined with 1 building I won by playing Level 1 last week, I now have the full set. I don't know how good it is yet, we shall see.

Verdict:
Overall, a good addition to the game, as it adds a whole new arena of play without detracting from the main progress of the game. The prizes are decent, since they can't be gotten regularly in other parts of the game (e.g. one goes to tournaments for KP, relics,runes and spells). The puzzles are a good challenge but can be improved in the area of resources needed.
 
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The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
So the TL:DR version is basically;
1. Spire is doable for 'End of Game' players *IF* they use a bunch of stat boosters.

2. Spire is a lost cause for the other 90% or so of the player base because it costs too damn much and even attempting to play it means we have nothing left to do actual research and/or develop our cities.

3. The rewards generally still suck hardcore for the costs put into this thing, regardless of in-game progress.


In summery: Spire sucks for the majority of us, and even just the first floor is barely doable... meanwhile, the more we level our AW's to try and boost our military & production capabilities, the more and more we screw ourselves over in the Spire of Eternal Misery.

REDUCE THE FREAKING COSTS PLEASE!!!
Better yet, do the following as well;
1. 1st floor = 1* enemies. 2nd floor = 2* w/a few 3* enemies. 3rd floor = 3* enemies.
Why?
90%+ of us don't have all the possible current military techs researched yet!! And it's a special level of "feth you!" to Ch3-5 players who don't even have the ability to use any 3* units of their own yet! Give those poor guys a break for once...
In the FoE version, the 1st level of GE is always against previous era troops. It at least means that everyone can play the feature as soon as they unlock it, even if it's only the first level.

2. ADD A 4TH TURN WHEN THERE'S 6+ RESOURCES WHEN NEGOTIATING!!
It took FoE barely 6 months to add that feature in.
So, with Elvenar's track record, it should probably take them only 6 centuries or so to figure this one out?!:rolleyes:


Oh, and don't you guys dare add the Spire into any events... all you'll do is kick the vast majority of your player base out of event altogether. >.<
 

MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
2. Spire is a lost cause for the other 90% or so of the player base because it costs too damn much and even attempting to play it means we have nothing left to do actual research and/or develop our cities.
Hm, I posted above that I have finished all 3 levels of spire in my test city - which is in chapter 4. I didn't have any military boosts whatsoever (no temps, no Phoenix, no AWs). So it is doable, just need a decent economy going (nothing extraordinary) and play the convince game.
 

RandomNo.

Well-Known Member
@RandomNo. I do not see any mention of any military boosts you had to use to finish all three floors. Did you use your Fire Phoenix and what level is it? How many temp military buildings did you use and what kind?
I have a stage 10 phoenix which I activated twice for tournament. I do not think I fought a significant number of encounters in the Spire during that period. In fact the squad sizes were so huge that I probably fought less than 5 encounters and then only when I was very confident of victory i.e. would probably have won without boosts anyway, albeit I might have had higher losses
 

RandomNo.

Well-Known Member
So the TL:DR version is basically;
1. Spire is doable for 'End of Game' players *IF* they use a bunch of stat boosters.

2. Spire is a lost cause for the other 90% or so of the player base because it costs too damn much and even attempting to play it means we have nothing left to do actual research and/or develop our cities.

3. The rewards generally still suck hardcore for the costs put into this thing, regardless of in-game progress.
You're wrong.

I also finished the Spire on a Dwarves chapter city with 100% Convince option. In fact I finished it on Wednesday morning.

I like the prizes. Just because you don't have need for it don't mean nobody does. I already get KP, spells and runes each week from tournaments. If Spire gave more of the same, great, why not? But it now gives me things I can't get else where so I say that's BETTER
 
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Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
After manually fighting in the Spire, I noticed a few things that can really make or break a fight.

First, if the fight has multiple waves, the terrain is the same for waves 2 and 3. This is VERY helpful in determining which troops to use and where to place them. HOWEVER, after the first wave, for whatever reason, the game does a little reshuffling. Instead of keeping troops in the same position as I chose them to be (assuming they all live), the highest initiative troops seem to get placed in the center often with disastrous consequences. (Like if wave 2 has a cerberus in the center and your mage dutifully placed in position 5 gets moved to the center. :eek: ) There are times when this has worked to my advantage, such as when my archer got moved to the center opposite an enemy mage, but I think I'd prefer to have my troops maintain their positioning between waves. It would make it a lot easier to choose the right troops.
 

RandomNo.

Well-Known Member
Sorry if someone already answered this....is it worth it? I know you have to get the complete set but is it worth all the supplies, coins, tools and troops to get it?
To answer this question, I'll have to ask you one in return - what are your going for and what are your current goals in game? Here are the major prizes of the Spire:

Moonstone Library Set
Timer instants
Spell fragments + Crafting Catalysts

Are those useful to you where you are in the game right now?

The set is nice to look at but doesn't really do anything spectacular. If you don't have the space for it in your city and if this is the only thing you're in the Spire for, I'd say probably not very worth it

The timer instants are useful to everyone. If you don't use them now, you can always use them later. If you're in the Spire for these, I think you'll be decently rewarded

The spell fragments and CCs are useful only if you're an active crafter. You do get a lot of these so if you want more stuff for crafting without having to disenchant other stuff, and can't produce CCs fast, then you'll appreciate these prizes. If you're in the Spire for these, you'll be rewarded quite handsomely.

In conclusion, the Spire will be most worth it if you're in it for more than one of the three main prizes. Diamonds don't really feature, I've won the occasional diamond prize, but all it really does is balance out the diamond costs of playing the Spire (e.g. when you buy an extra turn), which I guess is reasonable.

If you're at a stage in your game where you don't really craft and you can do without timer instants, my advice is do the first level for a chance at some prizes, but don't sweat yourself going for anything higher
 
To answer this question, I'll have to ask you one in return - what are your going for and what are your current goals in game? Here are the major prizes of the Spire:

Moonstone Library Set
Timer instants
Spell fragments + Crafting Catalysts

Are those useful to you where you are in the game right now?

The set is nice to look at but doesn't really do anything spectacular. If you don't have the space for it in your city and if this is the only thing you're in the Spire for, I'd say probably not very worth it

The timer instants are useful to everyone. If you don't use them now, you can always use them later. If you're in the Spire for these, I think you'll be decently rewarded

The spell fragments and CCs are useful only if you're an active crafter. You do get a lot of these so if you want more stuff for crafting without having to disenchant other stuff, and can't produce CCs fast, then you'll appreciate these prizes. If you're in the Spire for these, you'll be rewarded quite handsomely.

In conclusion, the Spire will be most worth it if you're in it for more than one of the three main prizes. Diamonds don't really feature, I've won the occasional diamond prize, but all it really does is balance out the diamond costs of playing the Spire (e.g. when you buy an extra turn), which I guess is reasonable.

If you're at a stage in your game where you don't really craft and you can do without timer instants, my advice is do the first level for a chance at some prizes, but don't sweat yourself going for anything higher
Thank you! I have won everything but the library itself and wanted to know if I should keep trying for it.
 

RandomNo.

Well-Known Member
To answer this question, I'll have to ask you one in return - what are your going for and what are your current goals in game? Here are the major prizes of the Spire:

Moonstone Library Set
Timer instants
Spell fragments + Crafting Catalysts

Are those useful to you where you are in the game right now?

The set is nice to look at but doesn't really do anything spectacular. If you don't have the space for it in your city and if this is the only thing you're in the Spire for, I'd say probably not very worth it

The timer instants are useful to everyone. If you don't use them now, you can always use them later. If you're in the Spire for these, I think you'll be decently rewarded

The spell fragments and CCs are useful only if you're an active crafter. You do get a lot of these so if you want more stuff for crafting without having to disenchant other stuff, and can't produce CCs fast, then you'll appreciate these prizes. If you're in the Spire for these, you'll be rewarded quite handsomely.

In conclusion, the Spire will be most worth it if you're in it for more than one of the three main prizes. Diamonds don't really feature, I've won the occasional diamond prize, but all it really does is balance out the diamond costs of playing the Spire (e.g. when you buy an extra turn), which I guess is reasonable.

If you're at a stage in your game where you don't really craft and you can do without timer instants, my advice is do the first level for a chance at some prizes, but don't sweat yourself going for anything higher
I might add that there are also two more buildings - a military one that gives the effect of two Unleashed Unit Upgrades for 25% less space and one that gives 2x the amount of Portal Profit of the Trading Outpost, again for 25% less space. These buildings don't really feature too much and I guess are a nifty prize but one shouldn't be in the Spire solely for them
 

RandomNo.

Well-Known Member
Thank you! I have won everything but the library itself and wanted to know if I should keep trying for it.
If you have 4 of the 5 pieces, I guess you could keep playing level 1 to have a chance at it. But like I said I wouldn't get too hung up on getting it. Just a FYI, only the Library needs 4 links to reach the max bonus. I.e. if you have everything except the Library, you can just place them now and still get max link bonus on all of them
 

Kataphractos

Active Member
As an immigrant from Forge of Empires, I'm not sure how much blame to ascribe to the Elvenar devs. Because as two or three of you have pointed out: the Spire is literally just FoE's "Guild Expedition" feature, shoehorned into Elvenar and reskinned. Which implies that some Corporate Genius (tm) looked at FoE's higher profits, decided Elvenar "needs to be more like Forge", and ordered the Elvenar team to "just add Guild Expeditions". The fact that Elvenar and FoE are two very different games, so that even well-designed features in one will barely work in the other, is the kind of detail that doesn't get considered by Corporate Geniuses (tm).

And frankly...well...Guild Expeditions were not a particularly well-designed feature in FoE. So it makes perfect sense to me that grinding the Spire isn't "balanced" or "worth the effort" or "fun". If I'm right -- and of course I could be wrong! -- none of those are what the Spire is for. The purpose of the Spire is to keep the Corporate Geniuses (tm) happy.