DeletedUser26654
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A week goes by and it's still a silly waste of time and energy.
Sure; let's make this "endeavor" as confusing as possible to keep the masses quiet.... Uhhhh, no. This is a joke.It may be a philosophical question - a metaphysical one. Or a question about life.
But starting from Elvenar itself, let us remember the hoards of players quitting the game or being on the brink of doing it and complaing about its monotony and repetitive nature. Many have been blaming the feeling that they are completing chores rather than enjoying themselves.
As a reaction to these grievances (and because of other reasons too), the developers have come up with the idea of the Cauldron. This was supposed to (at least in part) address the issue of sheer monotony and repetitiveness because it gave people something to toy with, to try and experiment, and to potentially obtain new rewards.
If the developers thought players' complaints would diminish, I think they were naive - because there is a new whine in town: people claim they have started getting a "casino feeling." Who's to blame again? Elvenar, of course.
This reminds me of various things but I won't delve into all of them because I may have already become boring. I will only mention a novel whose author and title I don't remember, but where I think I came across with this idea (which is a paraphrase): "when people don't know what to do with their souls, I've come to realize they actually don't know what to do with their bodies." This statement was quite strking for me at that time and I disagreed to it.
When people don't know what to do about their escapist endeavors, I tend to think they don't know what to do about their lives. Or they're about to find out.
I still think this has the likelihood of confusing most users even more than they already are, but perhaps I’m too pessimistic about that.That wouldn't change if the study page was always accessible and leftover(saved) WP simply become Study points when you brew.
I was basing my estimations on some Beta posts where I saw late-game players say they’d upgraded several effects to level 50+ in the first week or two by dumping lots of resources. At level 50, many of the effects last around 12 hours, or basically one day’s worth of play. If the goblets are separated and you have the potential to trigger that 4 or 5 days out of the week, how is that not game-breaking? It’s like suddenly having a high level Mtn Halls that doesn’t affect tourney or spire plopped down in your city for more than half the week, if you‘re using one of the goods effects, for example. My concern about game-breaking was directed more at the idea of separating the goblets than at the study and brewing phases overlapping. I have different issues with that.I think you're vastly overstating how much you can change the power of your brews in a few days after the first couple of weeks.
Setting aside the fact that having a cake that you can't eat sounds terrible, you would not "automatically have a permanently much more powerful city".
Okay, so let’s say you’re right and I’m vastly overestimating the usefulness, which is entirely possible. If then after “once or twice additional spending has only a tiny incremental impact”, why do you feel it’s important to have access to the study screen all the time? If it has such a small impact after a few weeks, I don’t see the point in reworking the entire system, just to give a few end-game players a week or two of more convenient resource dumping that won’t have much effect.You wouldn't suddenly get millions of free resources from thin air to spend on studies, you'd get to spend some of your earned resources a few days earlier, maybe avoiding some decay, and you'd have an alternative to the wholesaler and KP buying.
Being able to access the study page at any time would only impact the use of capped and decaying resources (e.g. coins/mana)
and after you've dumped a mainhall full of those once or twice additional spending has only a tiny incremental impact.
This would not be something that would "put [other] players at a terrible disadvantage"
Spire's a pc of cake to HH.I just looked at the thread for the spire when it came out. Seems like the same volume of denouncing it and saying it's a good thing. I know, so many still hate it, but I think even more have come to embrace and enjoy it. I say give it time and don't push too hard or get too upset to begin with. That being said, it would be nice to be able to study all week long, though I suspect as time goes by and we've leveled up some of our favs, there won't be as much of a need to get studying done all the time.
I agree that could potentially be overpowered.If the goblets are separated and you have the potential to trigger that 4 or 5 days out of the week, how is that not game-breaking?
Please separate the two for freedback/discussion, I completely agree with one, and not the otherMy concern about game-breaking was directed more at the idea of separating the goblets than at the study and brewing phases overlapping. I have different issues with that.
BecauseIf then after “once or twice additional spending has only a tiny incremental impact”, why do you feel it’s important to have access to the study screen all the time?
This change would help them too. Little cities can progress so quickly these days that becoming capped on resources is entirely possible, and with the massive jump in production every time a player changes chapters the ever-increasing coin and supply production has an even greater impact on them.On that note, since it’s much too expensive for early-chapter players to put resources in even a few times, this change would do nothing for small players
As someone on the new tech tree I can tell you the notion that we'll be capped on resources is ludicrous. I have really only gone to the wholesalers after using rains(coin or supplies) to get goods when my boosted goods are too low to trade to continue on with the spire. It takes a few days of mm spells just to gather the goods needed to do upgrades for my ancient wonders. So no, new players aren't swimming in resources.Little cities can progress so quickly these days that becoming capped on resources is entirely possible, and with the massive jump in production every time a player changes chapters the ever-increasing coin and supply production has an even greater impact on them.
Houston, we have contact! Haha.I agree that could potentially be overpowered.
Fair enough. My original post was an umbrella, but we have started to discuss aspects more specifically.Please separate the two for freedback/discussion, I completely agree with one, and not the other
Agreed it’s desirable. But did you impatiently sit and buy kp, using dozens or hundreds of coin rains, to drop that 1000 kp in a few days? Or did you wait and build it up over a little time through regular gameplay (tourney, time passing, building bonuses, etc.)? Plus, you said yourself that it’s only necessary to access the study page at all times for the sake of using capped or decaying resources, and implied that that benefit would wear off quickly after the first flurry of purchases. I just don’t see the point in adding an extra layer of complexity for the sake of a (literal) few weeks’ benefit for some players, especially when that ability is already there; the study page can be accessed within five minutes of the Cauldron opening up, if you want.Because
1. that tiny incremental impact is still desirable.
Going from Level 29 to level 30 in the MM AW changes my troops health from 279% to 280% but I still dumped 1,000+ KP into the wonder to do it.
You can already do that, hurray!2. An alternative to the Wholesaler for capped supplies would be nice
This works too!3. An alternative for capped coins other than KP/Wholsaler would be nice
If that’s what the announcement meant, then yes, potentially having a block on quests would be very frustrating (although I suppose not actually that different from already having climbed the Spire for the week when one of those quests shows up). However, since the announcement didn’t actually say event quests, I see an entirely different interpretation of the announcement as possible, which is simply that the tech will be made mandatory (as already announced on Beta today) and the little set of 6 quests that pop up when you research it gets inserted into chapter five’s quest list and becomes non-declinable (hopefully only until the next chapter, like most quests). *crosses fingers*4. Flexibility in completing the new event quests would be very nice "Brew a potion" "spend WP"
As Maeryn pointed out though, that’s unfortunately not the experience of most new cities, at least the ones I’ve seen or talked to. The tech tree moves them along so fast that they don’t have time to build up any cushion of resources because everything’s getting funneled to provinces until they’re firmly in the guest race chapters and getting tech-locked on guest race goods. I had around 100k+ of each resource banked by the time I was in Orcs; it sounds like most new cities are still literally running out of goods just to do research and upgrades at that point now. There simply isn’t any extra to spend on, well, extras, like the Cauldron.This change would help them too. Little cities can progress so quickly these days that becoming capped on resources is entirely possible, and with the massive jump in production every time a player changes chapters the ever-increasing coin and supply production has an even greater impact on them.
Also, not everything has to help new players right away. I'm not getting any benefits at all from old age pensions, in fact, my taxes are funding them, but I'm not complaining. Why? Because (with a little luck) I'll get old too.
Page 5, this thread.Where can I find something that lists accurately what each ingredient can be used for. And maybe a list of some simple potions you could make. Just to get us started on understanding how to brew better. I'm not on the Beta version so this is the first I'm seeing this.
If I'm using my brew on Thursday but capped on supplies on Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday?2. An alternative to the Wholesaler for capped supplies would be nice
An alternative for capped coins other than KP/Wholsaler would be nice
You can already do that, hurray!
The benefit diminishes, yes. Everything has significantly diminishing returns in this game though.Plus, you said yourself that it’s only necessary to access the study page at all times for the sake of using capped or decaying resources, and implied that that benefit would wear off quickly after the first flurry of purchases.
You both are referring to uncapped resources, which are not an issue for the cauldron study page access. Waiting a few days to dump [marble] only has an impact on one brew. Being capped on [supplies, coins] or losing resources for several days due to decay is another matter.As Maeryn pointed out though, that’s unfortunately not the experience of most new cities, at least the ones I’ve seen or talked to. The tech tree moves them along so fast that they don’t have time to build up any cushion of resources because everything’s getting funneled to provinces until they’re firmly in the guest race chapters and getting tech-locked on guest race goods. I had around 100k+ of each resource banked by the time I was in Orcs; it sounds like most new cities are still literally running out of goods just to do research and upgrades at that point now. There simply isn’t any extra to spend on, well, extras, like the Cauldron.
I think it's a simple fix.I just don’t see the point in adding an extra layer of complexity for the sake of a (literal) few weeks’ benefit for some players
I see this whole aspect as benefitting newer players far more than long-term players.I’m just saying that since this aspect is already massively tilted towards long-term players, I don’t see a reason to tilt it even further.
Type | Effect | #1 | #2 | #3 | #4 | #5 | #6 | #7 | #8 | #9 | #10 | #11 | #12 | Total |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
C_10% | Coins | 15 | 8.0 | 3.3 | 2.9 | 29.2 | ||||||||
G_40% | Precious | 12 | 6.7 | 2.9 | 2.9 | 24.5 | ||||||||
M_04% | Barracks | 10 | 5.7 | 2.9 | 2.9 | 21.5 | ||||||||
M_10% | Orcs | 8.6 | 5.7 | 2.9 | 2.9 | 20.1 | ||||||||
S_10% | Supplies | 8.6 | 5.7 | 2.9 | 5.0 | 20.1 | ||||||||
G_40% | Refined | 8.6 | 5.7 | 5.0 | 4.0 | 23.3 | ||||||||
M_04% | Training | 8.6 | 10 | 4.0 | 3.3 | 25.9 | ||||||||
G_04% | Settlement | null | 12 | 6.7 | 6.7 | 10 | 35.4 | |||||||
G_40% | Basic | 5.0 | 10 | 13.3 | 10 | 38.3 | ||||||||
Total | Katwick 2023A23 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 20.1 | 20.1 | 20.1 | 20.1 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 20 | 1%_off |
Well, yes? This is only a problem for fighters who don’t have eyes for anything but the military buffs. If you want to boost mana, coins, supplies, any type of good, orcs, guest race goods, or seeds, it can be done whenever during the week. Even hardcore fighters need those things, right? Surely there’s some other effect you could use earlier in the week that would still be helpful: extra supplies for a Brown Bear feeding, orcs for training units, or even sentient goods to allow you to potentially store a manufactory and place another armory or more buff buildings? (I’m spitballing here at a fighter’s needs; don’t judge the idea too harshly if those exact examples don’t work.) Personally, it doesn’t matter when I activate it so I could use it as another wholesaler, I suppose, but while that can be a nice benefit, that’s really not its main purpose. Being able to view the Cauldron as another wholesaler just may not be possible for fighters, if you’re really tied to only using specific effects on certain days. I think it’s a shame to view it as broken because you can’t use it under very particular conditions to duplicate another game feature, though.If I'm using my brew on Thursday but capped on supplies on Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday?
Is your answer really
"Just waste your entire brew buff on a day you aren't doing the spire/tournament and you'll have access"
?
True.The benefit diminishes, yes. Everything has significantly diminishing returns in this game though.
All players can eventually reach a point where they do things that only increase their city's ability to ___ by 0.0x%
Almost all the small cities I’ve interacted with recently are either casual (probably not every-day players), or asking for help on their Main Hall because they‘re chronically short of coins and can’t afford to do basic things like research or upgrades. They’re just trying to put food on the table, metaphorically speaking, they have no riches to spare for something extra like this.You both are referring to uncapped resources, which are not an issue for the cauldron study page access. Waiting a few days to dump [marble] only has an impact on one brew. Being capped on [supplies, coins] or losing resources for several days due to decay is another matter.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this. I can’t imagine the coding is as simple as everyone seems to expect (reason: I live with a coder with 45 years experience and I hear complaints and horror stories about trying to change implemented code for even simple processes almost daily), and I don’t see how it won’t result in even more confusion for the average user (Why can I only use half my points for brewing? I had extra WP, where did they go?? What are these symbols? Why do I have to buy points before I can brew? and so on).I think it's a simple fix.
For the Cauldron itself, I absolutely agree! Just not for extending the study period, since the whippersnappers live in a deflated economy and can’t even pay their rent for the month, let alone start investment funds.I see this whole aspect as benefitting newer players far more than long-term players.
Those old farts had to climb uphill both ways in the snow, these young whipper-snappers get this nice little boost that will make the process of progress easier than it's ever been
I wish I had realized you didn't fight before this entire back & forth, it would have saved so much timeThis is only a problem for fighters who don’t have eyes for anything but the military buffs. If you want to boost mana, coins, supplies, any type of good, orcs, guest race goods, or seeds, it can be done whenever during the week. Even hardcore fighters need those things, right? Surely there’s some other effect you could use earlier in the week that would still be helpfu....?
Fighters are constrained by the 5-day temporary military buildings which are in limited supply. That means in order to maximize their time we place them at the end of the week so that we can use them for the end of one week as well as the beginning of the next.Personally, it doesn’t matter when I activate
Being a fighter is hardly a "very particular condition"I think it’s a shame to view it as broken because you can’t use it under very particular conditions to duplicate another game feature, though.