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    Your Elvenar Team

Too Much KP Purchase

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
Early in Ch16. I don't buy KP except for quests. I have plenty.
View attachment 16526

I have seen situations like this before. Just before chap 21 came out on the live server I had about 2.000 KPs stored on the bar as well because I wanted to run through the first several techs.
But apart from that I can really not see any reason why anyone would want to have that many KPs on the bar. They don't do any good there and only increase the risk of accidentally dumping a crapload of KPs in an AW when one presses the wrong button.

So I'd like to know the reasoning behind keeping a crapload of KPs on the KP bar.
 

Silly Bubbles

You cant pop them all
And no, KPs do NOT get cheaper because you produce more, it only seems that way for a bit, until you catch up again.

They do because the more you buy, the less noticeable the increase is. At my level, the KP cost increases by 0.0063% so that's a very negligible increase comparing to increases for coins from residences, visits. Just increase in coins from visits from one MH upgrade is 4.76% and that's 758 KPs before it starts getting tiny bit more expensive again. We're playing with pennies.

Also, the buying KPs system is kinda screwed. It is far, far, far more advantageous to buy KPs for T3 goods than T1 goods, or even T2 goods.

Whatever you want to call it, it's a part of the game. It's another thing to analyse and decide which way to go. If the game was easy, it would be very boring.
 

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
They do because the more you buy, the less noticeable the increase is. At my level, the KP cost increases by 0.0063% so that's a very negligible increase comparing to increases for coins from residences, visits. Just increase in coins from visits from one MH upgrade is 4.76% and that's 758 KPs before it starts getting tiny bit more expensive again. We're playing with pennies.


Whatever you want to call it, it's a part of the game. It's another thing to analyse and decide which way to go. If the game was easy, it would be very boring.

The fact it becomes less noticable does NOT mean it gets cheaper. It means the percentage changes, which is something completely different.
If gas goes up from $3.50 to $3.60, then from $3.60 to $3.62 it does not mean the gas is getting cheaper because the increase is less. Not even if your wages were going up with the same amount in percentages. The fact you don't notice it as much has nothing to do with whether something actually goes up or down.

And I know it's part of the game, thank you very much. Doesn't mean it is not screwed. In fact, it is one of the reasons there are so many cross-tier trades. The increase in output for T3 factories has been far outpacing the increase in price for KPs. For both ranking points and buying KPs it is far more profitable to have more T3 factories than others.

If I want to buy an extra KP, I can pay 79.320 T1, or 41.080 T2, or 30.070 T3.
But the output of the factories is about the same. And the amount the next KP increases by is larger for T1 than T2 or T3,
It would be 79.360 vs 41.100 vs 30.080. Sure, doesn't seem to make a lot of difference, but it will add up over time....just look at the difference I have to pay. I could buy a crapload of extra KPs with T3 goods before I even get close to paying as much T3 goods as T1 goods

The system was designed to be ok when there was a big difference in the output...as in back when you couldn't upgrade T3 factories as far as T1 factories. Since so much in the game has changed, this probably needs to be looked at as well. The overhaul in the trading system helped bring down the ridiculous amount of cross-tier trades, but it didn't solve the other issues.
Saying it is part of the game is no argument at all; the game has evolved quite a bit, so there is no reason to just accept everything.

That all being said; for me it's not an issue in whether I can afford it. I can. Not all players can.
My issue is I am being forced to buy 100+ KPs at a moment where I basically have no use for them. If it is a few, all fine and dandy. When it is about large amounts it is not, it is an annoyance.
Since there have been many complaints, it is something that needs to be considered. Especially when players are already flat-out stating this means they will (partially) skip the event. When event-quests start turning players away, there is something wrong.
 

Silly Bubbles

You cant pop them all
It means the percentage changes, which is something completely different.
If gas goes up from $3.50 to $3.60, then from $3.60 to $3.62 it does not mean the gas is getting cheaper because the increase is less. Not even if your wages were going up with the same amount in percentages. The fact you don't notice it as much has nothing to do with whether something actually goes up or down.

Whatever you want to call it, you can buy more KPs than before. If you can afford buy more of a thing, it's relatively cheaper to the way it was before. I don't really want to play with words, it doesn't change the fact.

And I know it's part of the game, thank you very much. Doesn't mean it is not screwed.

This is your personal opinion. I call it challenging and I love challenge. There's no point arguing about this.
 

Flashfyre

Well-Known Member
So I'd like to know the reasoning behind keeping a crapload of KPs on the KP bar.
Simple: to always have enough onhand to complete tech and AWs when required.
Too many times I have had to patiently collect KPs to finish 1 tech, then do it all again. And while KPs earned from the MA/events can be used for all KP-required things, but other sources like instants cannot.
So, I hoard "regular KPs" to spend on tech, saving my "special KPs" for AWs.
By taking my time getting through each chapter, I collect KPs from events and the MA that I don't need to use right away. For the past 2 years I have only used KPs when needed; that has also meant not spending thousands of them on AWs, keeping those levels low enough to reduce the Spire and Tourney costs, as well as anything else that uses AW levels as a factor.

As an aside, since that pic I posted, I had over 4K in storage. But the new chapter I'm in saw me use a few hundred to open up the next couple of techs. Now while I work on collecting the needed guest race goods, I'll be restocking the KP inventory.

You also say that they don't do any good there (in the KP bar), but I would counter that they also don't expire or decay, so it does nothing detrimental to your game to have them in there.
 

Sprite1313

Well-Known Member
You also say that they don't do any good there (in the KP bar), but I would counter that they also don't expire or decay, so it does nothing detrimental to your game to have them in there.
Except, if you always keep your KP bar full, you are giving up 24 free KP every day. Over two years, that is 17,520KP you aren't getting. I agree that for your play style (not wanting to advance AWs too far, for example), that probably isn't detrimental. To a lot of players who advance wonders (their own and others), that is a lot of KP to give up that could be used.

I would probably start twitching if I tried to do that, but we can't all have my particular brand of OCD. ;)
 
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Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
And have y'all read this thread? Where we specifically asked that certain quests like BUY KPs be limited or scaled back. And we were told that it was passed on... and then the Autumn event came to Beta.

So they can talk till blue in the face about how our feedback matters, but their actions speak pretty loudly.
 

Mighty Peach

Active Member
2zYeecm.jpg


Perfect example of an alternative design that works well for different play styles.

The Floral Awakening event earlier this year they provided proper alternatives to the quests people had a gripe with. It was a good design. I wonder why they went back on that.
 

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
Simple: to always have enough onhand to complete tech and AWs when required.
Too many times I have had to patiently collect KPs to finish 1 tech, then do it all again. And while KPs earned from the MA/events can be used for all KP-required things, but other sources like instants cannot.
So, I hoard "regular KPs" to spend on tech, saving my "special KPs" for AWs.
By taking my time getting through each chapter, I collect KPs from events and the MA that I don't need to use right away. For the past 2 years I have only used KPs when needed; that has also meant not spending thousands of them on AWs, keeping those levels low enough to reduce the Spire and Tourney costs, as well as anything else that uses AW levels as a factor.

As an aside, since that pic I posted, I had over 4K in storage. But the new chapter I'm in saw me use a few hundred to open up the next couple of techs. Now while I work on collecting the needed guest race goods, I'll be restocking the KP inventory.

You also say that they don't do any good there (in the KP bar), but I would counter that they also don't expire or decay, so it does nothing detrimental to your game to have them in there.

I see. And now I understand, thanks.
It may work for your style of play, but for mine I find that counterproductive as one misses the 24 daily KPs every day, which adds up pretty quickly, so I would see that as detrimental.
And of course the possibility of accidentally clicking the wrong button when donating to an AW and dumping way more KPs than intended. Just that possibility I see as detrimental.

I like having the KPs go into AWs, but for that I use instant and I have more than enough of those to instantly finish any if I chose to do so, but since many of mine are already maxed/almost maxed I am not in a hurry there anymore.

As for KPs for finishing techs; I keep large amounts (say 60 or so) of scouted provinces at hand without doing any encounters. Those I can finish at any time, so I see those as my stock. Nice and safe as the catering costs are hardly an issue. If I were to need an even larger amount than that, I can also grab them from the tourney every week, or if it comes to that buy them (at a time of my choosing, not as a mandatory quest in an event).
I have never really seen any moment that I wanted to finish a tech right away and have KPs be an issue.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I will be more precise, This thread was about the Quests that ask for KP purchases and you are able to extend that to include the amount that your city is at, the ways you fulfill the quest, and the overall positive or negative ramifications of these actions.
However, extending this out to Swap threads, NetZero, and the like IS OFF TOPIC.
You could benefit from a lighter hand in how you treat players.
 

Dominionofgod

Thinker of Ideas
The buy kp problem is part of my post here in the ideas and feedback section. Soon as they open the voting on it, feel free to vote for it. That is one of several quests that have become a real problem or annoyance.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
The buy kp problem is part of my post here in the ideas and feedback section. Soon as they open the voting on it, feel free to vote for it. That is one of several quests that have become a real problem or annoyance.

Now you know they have already said a while back that they have paused everything in the Ideas forum and nothing is getting forwarded, and now that they are moving everything to Discord, we know why.
 

Dominionofgod

Thinker of Ideas
LOL! You do know they stopped the voting option, right?
yea, found that out after i posted it. Didnt know they had stopped that. Figured id get a couple last ones in before they killed the forums. But i guess they already started hacking limbs off already'
 

-Solaris-

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Hello dear elves and humans,

There is no voting on ideas currently, but we still forward your suggestions and ideas frequently. For instance, we have been forwarding your feedback on the difficulty/issues with the "Buy KP", "Donate to the Magic Academy" and "Fight/Negotiate world map encounters" event quests :wink_elf:
 

Dominionofgod

Thinker of Ideas
Hello dear elves and humans,

There is no voting on ideas currently, but we still forward your suggestions and ideas frequently. For instance, we have been forwarding your feedback on the difficulty/issues with the "Buy KP", "Donate to the Magic Academy" and "Fight/Negotiate world map encounters" event quests :wink_elf:
Thank you!
 
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