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Tournament Catering Data Project

DeletedUser7686

Guest
The purpose of this Thread is to collect Data on Catering Costs for Tournaments.

Each entry should be in the Form:

Chapter, Squad Size, Goods, Round, Province, Round, Encounter, Costs

Where Chapter is the Player's Chapter at the time of the Catering.
Squad Size is the current Squad Size outside of Tournaments (i.e. Regular Encounters).
Goods is the Type of Tournament
Round is the Round Number for that Province
Province is the Number of the Province within that Round
Encounter is the Encounter Number, counting from Top to Bottom
Costs is the Costs to Cater that Encounter.

For example:
ArmySetupT_1.png


I, 6, Crystal, 1, 1, 1, 1080 Coin, 380 Supply, 2 Marble

I will add my data from the last Round later tonight.

It is my hope that this data will make it easier to plan for Tournaments, and to argue about any rebalancing that might be needed.
 
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Ashrem

Well-Known Member
You will need to know the size of the user's base squad, since that determines how expensive the tournament province is. Otherwise, two lines will appear identical but have different catering costs.
 

DeletedUser6875

Guest
Base Squadsize 144

4,Gems,5,2,1,1100supplies,170planks,230silk
4,Gems,5,2,2,710supplies,340planks,110silk
4,Gems,5,2,3,340planks,300silk
4,Gems,5,2,4,68planks,76silk

4,Gems,4,4,1,970supplies,1200planks,130silk
4,Gems,4,4,2,970supplies,440planks,130silk
4,Gems,4,4,3,1200supplies,580planks,190silk
4,Gems,4,4,4,580planks,520silk

4,Gems,5,8,1,2200supplies,990planks,290silk
4,Gems,5,8,2,3300supplies,1600marble,590silk
4,Gems,5,8,3,1100supplies,2000planks,730silk
4,Gems,5,8,4,1600supplies,660planks,880crystal

4,Gems,4,9,1,4300supplies,650planks,870silk
4,Gems,4,9,2,2700supplies,1300planks,440silk
4,Gems,4,9,3,1300planks,1200silk
4,Gems,4,9,4,2200supplies,2600planks,290silk

4,Gems,3,10,1,2100supplies,2500planks,280scroll
4,Gems,3,10,2,2100supplies,940planks,280scroll
4,Gems,3,10,3,2600supplies,1300planks,420scroll
4,Gems,3,10,4,1300planks,1100silk
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser7686

Guest
You will need to know the size of the user's base squad, since that determines how expensive the tournament province is. Otherwise, two lines will appear identical but have different catering costs.
Is it not simply determined by the Chapter, and so accounts for the Squad Size at the end of the Chapter, or do Costs vary within each Chapter, depending on the Current Squad Size?

Please give an example.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
Costs vary according to your squad size, and some people do not take the optional squad upgrades. While they are pretty consistent at the end of early chapters, over time they can vary by quite a bit.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Completed SS 29 ( 897)
1,100 850 640
640 430 1,300
430 1,300 1,100
1,300 1,100 850
___ ___ ___
3,470 3,680 3,890

Has not completed SS29 (810)
770 1,500 380
1,500 380 1,200
770 580 380
580 380 1,200
___ ___ ___
3,620 2,840 3,160

Those numbers are for province 6, round 1 chapter 10 Tier 1,2,3
 

DeletedUser7686

Guest
Costs vary according to your squad size, and some people do not take the optional squad upgrades. While they are pretty consistent at the end of early chapters, over time they can vary by quite a bit.
So if I understand correctly, you could choose to not take every Squad Size Upgrade, and have easier Tournament Fights, but more difficult Completion Fights? And vice versa?
 

DeletedUser7686

Guest
Completed SS 29 ( 897)
1,100 850 640
640 430 1,300
430 1,300 1,100
1,300 1,100 850
___ ___ ___
3,470 3,680 3,890

Has not completed SS29 (810)
770 1,500 380
1,500 380 1,200
770 580 380
580 380 1,200
___ ___ ___
3,620 2,840 3,160

Those numbers are for province 6, round 1 chapter 10 Tier 1,2,3
I do not understand what you have written here.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
Soggy is far enough along that he doesn't use any coin or supplies to negotiate. His costs are x tier1 goods, y tier 2 goods, and z tier three gods, so:
1,100 850 640 (1100 t1, 850 t2 and 640 t3) encounter 1
640 430 1,300 (640 t1, 430 t2, and 1200 t3) encounter 2
430 1,300 1,100 (430 t1, 1300 t2, and 1100 t3) encounter 3
1,300 1,100 850 (1300 t1, 1100 t2, and 850 t3) encounter 4

(edit: I don't think he intended to match your report format, just to show that two different accounts in the same chapter could have different costs for the same province in the tournament)

(edit 2: I think your costs can also be different if the tournament is your boosted or not, so it's possible the data will not be as helpful a predictor as you hope.)
 

DeletedUser7686

Guest
(edit 2: I think your costs can also be different if the tournament is your boosted or not, so it's possible the data will not be as helpful a predictor as you hope.)
Well what data would be needed to draw useful conclusions? Has this already been done? I could not find it.

What I want to be able to do is estimate the Catering Costs of Tournament Encounters, so I can figure out how to get my Fellowship deeper into the Chests. In particular, I am trying to collect the 5th Checkpoint. We've gotten to 4 every time recently, but never to 5.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure it's feasible to reverse engineer the specifics of the numbers, but at the least, I think you need to know:

What tournament it is (they are not all of equal difficulty)
Is the tournament one of your boosts
How far is the tournament province from your city (what ring is it on)
What is your base squad size
 

DeletedUser61

Guest
What I want to be able to do is estimate the Catering Costs of Tournament Encounters
You're trying to come up with a simple solution to a complex problem, and there's NOT a simple solution.

There's a RANDOM range for catering costs amongst the battles in an acquired province, it's about 20%, and the catering costs for tournaments likewise varied when checked a few months ago.

And then you have to get folks to agree regarding the relative value for Tiered Goods, and then the relative value of the fighting units.

There's a similar LINEAR range regarding the number of units. If you have a single opposing squad, which is possible when you're just beginning, you'll have a certain number of weighted fighters. If you have 8 opposing squads, which is possible when you're several rings from your city, you'll have about 20% more weighted fighters. More squads means smaller squads.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
You might find that it's a bit easier to take the catering costs for the entire province, as opposed to individual encounters, as that should come in closer to the average. I have noted a significant variation within a single province in the past.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Well what data would be needed to draw useful conclusions? Has this already been done? I could not find it.
I think the chapter you are in might actually be irrelevant, and only your squad size matters. In my above example my city that has just one more SS had a 20% increase in T2 and T3 costs. @Katwijk is probably right, and there is a degree of randomness. Also your 4th province might be 1 ring further than my 4th province which also effects costs.

I would try to record how many coins, supplies, tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 each province requires and line it up with the players base squad size.

I had actually recorded costs for 8 weeks right before the massive change to tournaments, so it's not a project I'd be willing to take on, but if you do set up a google sheet I'd be happy to contribute.

@Ashrem thank you for clarifying my post, right on all counts.
 

DeletedUser619

Guest
how to get my Fellowship deeper into the Chests. In particular, I am trying to collect the 5th Checkpoint. We've gotten to 4 every time recently, but never to 5.

This is only my own experience so take it for what it's worth to you. The ONE time I've been able to gather enough points to help move my FS along QUICKLY towards the last achievable chest, and keep in mind I only cater, was when I was able to start my progress in the tournament just after a new tournament started. The more levels of a province you can conquer, the higher the number of points you get for each new level. I was able to move through enough 16 hour cycles by doing this to rack up a relatively high number of points for each catered province on my last run through that
it put us over the top and beyond what we had been able to achieve previously in terms of chest levels. Starting a tournament early is usually not an option for me, but I just happened to be home from work on the right day and everything fell into place.

All by way of saying, see if you're able to get a significant number of your FS members to log in and complete the first provinces EARLY in the tournament cycle (whether they cater or fight), and then every 16 hours thereafter. It might make a huge difference in your ability to achieve more chests. Best of luck.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
@Elfindel Elfhelm
I had some success in this Gem tournament with feeding goods to smaller players.
Instead of doing one more province for 10,000 goods, I was able to pass those goods (using 4:1 trades) to an early chapter player, and it paid for 3 more provinces. Doing that with a few players each day we got one more chest than usual. Granted I got fewer personal rewards, but I was glad to skip on runes and spells that I don't need for an extra 10 KP for everyone.
 

DeletedUser7686

Guest
I had some success in this Gem tournament with feeding goods to smaller players.
Instead of doing one more province for 10,000 goods, I was able to pass those goods (using 4:1 trades) to an early chapter player, and it paid for 3 more provinces. Doing that with a few players each day we got one more chest than usual. Granted I got fewer personal rewards, but I was glad to skip on runes and spells that I don't need for an extra 10 KP for everyone.
I figured this out after the first Tournament I played in. Elves of Twilight is a mixed rank Fellowship, with players in every Chapter.

We did manage to crack the 5th Chest during the last hour of the Tournament. I think we'll take it easy on the Marble Tournament next week, then push really hard for the 6th Chest on Steel, because pretty much the lower third ranked Players are all Boosted in Steel, and if I can convert most of them to being more active in Tournaments, it will make a huge difference.

Since I don't really know what data we should be collecting, I'm dispensing with my original format, but here is my data from the Last Round.
Gems Tournament (unBoosted)
Squad Size: 90
Round #5:

Province #1:

  1. 1,900 Coins, 2,505 Supplies, 190 Planks
  2. 1,300 Coins, 760 Supplies, 159 Planks
  3. 1,300 Coins, 760 Supplies
  4. 2,500 Coins, 380 Supplies, 62 Planks

Province #2:

  1. 4,700 Coins, 760 Supplies, 140 Steel
  2. 3,800 Coins, 570 Supplies, 93 Planks
  3. 2,800 Coins, 380 Supplies, 280 Steel
  4. 5,700 Coints, 940 Supplies, 190 Planks


Province #3:

  1. 2,900 Coins, 1,800 Supplies, 360 Planks
  2. 2,900 Coins, 1,800 Supplies
  3. 12,000 Coins, 590 Supplies, 430 Planks
  4. 4,400 Coints, 590 Supplies, 430 Planks


Province #4:

  1. 7,600 Coins, 1,100 Supplies, 190 Planks
  2. 5,700 Coins, 760 Supplies, 560 Marble
  3. 3,800 Coins, 2,300 Supplies, 460 Planks
  4. 9,400 Coints, 1,500 Supplies, 280 Steel


Province #5:

  1. 14,000 Coins, 470 Planks
  2. 14,000 Coins, 1,900 Supplies, 470 Planks
  3. 12,00 Coins, 1,900 Supplies, 360 Planks
  4. 1,900 Supplies, 950 Planks
I know that 10 Coin ~= 1 Supply, but what are the approximations people use for Goods?

I guess what I am really looking for are a couple approximate ratios, i.e.

Next Round ~= 1xx% of This Round.
Next Province ~= 1xx% of This Province.
 
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SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I know that 10 Coin ~= 1 Supply, but what are the approximations people use for Goods?
Since there is no easy way to convert supplies to coins I wouldn't try to set a ratio, same goes for different tiers of goods.
Maybe recording in a sheet like this will provide answers
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1djqBuktajkQgTVBttLQgYCIakR4mF5AzH3PWa-n7An8/edit?usp=sharing
Once all of the information is there you can try to extrapolate a pattern. Prior to everything changing, the costs of negotiating went up about 160% per round most of the time.
If you get enough players with different squad sizes filling it out we might even see the bigger picture. That is if we assume I'm right, and negotiation costs are based on squad size techs and not just chapter(which isn't a given)
 

DeletedUser7686

Guest
Maybe recording in a sheet like this will provide answers
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1djqBuktajkQgTVBttLQgYCIakR4mF5AzH3PWa-n7An8/edit?usp=sharing
Once all of the information is there you can try to extrapolate a pattern. Prior to everything changing, the costs of negotiating went up about 160% per round most of the time.
Thank you. I was looking for something like this.

I am not very familiar with Google Sheets. Is there a group sharing this? Can I see others' data? Or is this just for my own use?

Thank you again.
 
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