Warning regarding new battle system

[DeletedUser43]

Please pass this on:

If you want to win any more fights in the regular provinces, fight them now. The new battle system makes many fights unwinnable. The enemies get a lot stronger, your troops get a lot weaker.

Tournaments are still doable, with heavy losses.

One day, this will be seen as the good old days when fighting was easy (if you can imagine such a thing).

So either fight now, or forever hold your peace.

Here is what your fellow Elvenar players on beta have said about this system. Forewarned is fore armed.

https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/discussion-release-notes-version-1-15.5915/

https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/the-most-useless-soldier-in-elvenar.5953/

https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/the-new-battle-system-is-terrible.5950/

Bear in mind, they heard all that feedback and their response is to bring that system here.

 

[dikke ikke]

I tried to answer on their friendly mail, but you can not answer mails send by the system I will finish the current tournament and then hope that they will improve the battle system in the near future, because what I read the last days on beta is not very promising, it is rather frightening

 

[DeletedUser3220]

When I started this game over a year ago it was so much fun! I could get on and socialize with all the new found friends and enjoy fellowshipping with them. I'm mostly home bound and on oxygen, so speaking is hard for me. Typing is so much easier. I didn't feel so alone anymore when I was on here. It was very relaxing and rewarding to be on this game. The game play was pretty cool. I could fight the battles, win and lose some. It just made me learn a better strategy. I looked forward to finishing a province and getting to build the AWs. All of that has changed and not for the better. Now, it seems to be more of a non-paying stressful job than a game.

 

[DeletedUser3312]

I am losing soldiers faster than I can train them. And I run out of hammers. (this is in beta) We are much weaker. Seems the developers confused us with our opponents and strengthened the opponents even more. so we are even more weak. sword dancers are pitted against everything. And when you have not even researched archers, you get creamed in one fell swoop. I am not sure if the devs have gotten into some of those psycho shrooms or what but they are high on something.

 

[DeletedUser1016]

Thanks for this warning guys....really appreciate it. I was under the impression that the revamp would make the fighting easier to learn, and more straight forward; and thereby not so difficult to win....guess easier to learn doesn't mean that....

 

[DeletedUser43]

I am afraid it is even worse than we thought. They have deliberately done this. Read for yourself. The quote by Muf. Fighting has deliberately been made impossible to win if you have scouted "further" than expected. If you paid for any scouts to get further, you have done a bad thing. If you send your scouts out when they are finished, you have done a bad thing.

Your armories are nerfed too. You will now need 6 armories, at full capacity if you want to have 10 hours training. (I am guessing it is that many, because 3 maxed armories only gives me 5 hours of training). You will need a lot more culture in order to support those armories. But, it won't matter, if you are an advanced player.

https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/inde...ehind-the-scenes-battle-redesign.5816/page-12

All advanced players: they have ended your ability to fight in the world map. You are "allowed" to fight in the tournaments if you want. But only a little. If you do that too well and have too much fun, they will remove that ability from you as well.


Seriously folks....this needs to be a big lesson for everyone who has ever given Inno a dime, or thought about giving Inno a dime: They can nerf the game any time they want. They can make any gigantic change at any time. You have no recourse. So decide ahead of time.

 

[DeletedUser1016]

If we can't fight on the World Map, then how on earth are we going to get expansions for all the extra rows they are preparing to open up???? I don't pay and I still have 21 spaces left to fill with about 250 provinces discovered; and I am very close to finishing the orc/goblin chapter. If the World Map if not a source, then I'm going to have to rely on whatever new visiting race chapters provide. Well, I'll wait it out for a bit longer, but if I get to a position where I can not expand, build or upgrade without spending dollars, then that is my time to exit and find another game. And if it cost dollars to expand, then it's going to be only pay-to-play players that will continue with the new visiting race chapters. Without expansions they're will be no way to upgrade to bigger buildings, and add new buildings [i.e.Ancient Wonders, Mercenary Camp and other forms of barracks, 6 Armories - maxed level, etc].

If that's the case, then it truly has become pay to play, which is not desirable to me. I don't mind on line - pay to play games, personally speaking, this particular game just isn't worth any monetary price to me. It's at most distracting and pretty to look at... I'll purchase a PS4 game before I'm have to pay for this game to continue building.......

EDIT: Thanks for the link to the Beta conversation....wow...sounds like a really bad release for advanced players....

 

[DeletedUser43]

sounds like a really bad release for advanced players....

I'm not sure how "advanced" you have to be really bad for you. According to the moderator, if you have more than one day scouting times you have scouted too far and your fights should not have been winnable all this time. But if you have less than one day scouting times, it is possible that you can't fight anyway because you need to have progressed through a lot of the tech tree in order to win a battle. And they expect you scout "continually" but if you have, then you have gone too far.

Sound contradictory and impossible? It is.

And there is a contest that they have released at the same time they nerfed the fighting....two of the quests are Gain 17 relics....17 flipping relics....and then gain 11 provinces! One dev has no clue what the other is doing.

Scout, don't scout, clear provinces, omg you cleared too many provinces, the list goes on and on. Hurry, build more armories, but wait, don't clear too many provinces and get too many expansions. Hurry, build all the wonders so your troops can win in a battle, butttttttt.....if you get those troops you can only use them if you don't have any expansions on which to have build those wonders which you need in order to make those troops usable, but don't forget to build the magic academy, only...well.....now you can't get any relics any more to make it run, but.....

I am pretty sure no dev ever played Elvenar.

Bottom line, fighting has been nerfed for everyone.

Oh, and remember when I said you could still fight in tournaments. Sorry. That has ended too. Here is apparently why:


0 stars: enemy size is ~80% of your own squad size
1 star: ~100%
2 stars: ~120% (I lost a lot of battles on this level, but won some too.)
3 stars: ~140% (I lost most battles on this level that I tried. I cleared 2 provinces.)
4 stars: ~160% (I won't get this far)
5 stars: ~180%

I guess they forgot the tournaments go to 6 stars. And btw...when they release the new system, the AI is broken and will cause you many more losses than normal because the AI is still using the old system.

Frankly, I lost even more than the AI did.

 

[qaccy]

I'm not sure how "advanced" you have to be really bad for you. According to the moderator, if you have more than one day scouting times you have scouted too far and your fights should not have been winnable all this time. But if you have less than one day scouting times, it is possible that you can't fight anyway because you need to have progressed through a lot of the tech tree in order to win a battle. And they expect you scout "continually" but if you have, then you have gone too far.

Sound contradictory and impossible? It is.

And there is a contest that they have released at the same time they nerfed the fighting....two of the quests are Gain 17 relics....17 flipping relics....and then gain 11 provinces! One dev has no clue what the other is doing.

Scout, don't scout, clear provinces, omg you cleared too many provinces, the list goes on and on. Hurry, build more armories, but wait, don't clear too many provinces and get too many expansions. Hurry, build all the wonders so your troops can win in a battle, butttttttt.....if you get those troops you can only use them if you don't have any expansions on which to have build those wonders which you need in order to make those troops usable, but don't forget to build the magic academy, only...well.....now you can't get any relics any more to make it run, but.....

I am pretty sure no dev ever played Elvenar.

Bottom line, fighting has been nerfed for everyone.

Oh, and remember when I said you could still fight in tournaments. Sorry. That has ended too. Here is apparently why:


0 stars: enemy size is ~80% of your own squad size
1 star: ~100%
2 stars: ~120% (I lost a lot of battles on this level, but won some too.)
3 stars: ~140% (I lost most battles on this level that I tried. I cleared 2 provinces.)
4 stars: ~160% (I won't get this far)
5 stars: ~180%

I guess they forgot the tournaments go to 6 stars. And btw...when they release the new system, the AI is broken and will cause you many more losses than normal because the AI is still using the old system.

Frankly, I lost even more than the AI did.

You don't actually fight at 6 stars. You want to call out that they 'forgot' 6 stars, when you failed to count that they actually provided 6 numbers for the tournament squad sizes (it starts at 0, with the last battle at 5 stars).

If the devs say we've been going too far out with scouts (this much should have been made obvious as soon as they added the Orc requirements to negotiations), then we've been going too far out. It sucks for players who've been pushing the envelope for months to have changes implemented in the game that effectively roadblock them, but in those cases just consider that you now have an advantage over someone who didn't because you got 'further than intended'.

 

[DeletedUser3610]

If the devs say we've been going too far out with scouts [snip], then we've been going too far out.

Obviously to the devs playing the game often and well equals scouting "too far out" ... People have scouted as much as they were able because they wanted to play the game. It's just that they have scouted more provinces than the devs like because the devs want them to buy the expansions, not get them for free by actually playing the game ...

 

[DeletedUser1016]

I'm not sure how "advanced" you have to be really bad for you. According to the moderator, if you have more than one day scouting times you have scouted too far and your fights should not have been winnable all this time.

I was just entering ring 11 with many discovered provinces in ring 10 waiting to be conquered, when I started the Orc/Goblin chapter, so I never had the orc negotiation issue. But still, with 5 research tree items left to unlock, I am over 1d-17hrs per scout. It sounds like I'm still too far ahead? That's crazy!!!! Presently, I've got only 10 provinces open and partially fought and about another 8 just discovered, I hate to stop scouting now because it takes so darn long to open a province. It's just hard to believe that I'm too far advanced in anything???

I have to rely on fighting, because of the lack of expansions offered in these chapters, the orc/goblin chapter was only 4, and 3 were locked deep into the tech tree, so fortunately I had saved up enough provinces [crystal] to get 4 expansions. Without those I'd have not been able to build the crazy amount of shroom farms and Rally Points to move thru the tech tree to unlock the other 3 expansions offered. AGAIN...the pressure is to spend dollars for the expansions, but with the InnoGame's history it's just a bad investment and a stupid thing to do at this point because the just don't have their act together [really sorry if I insulted anyone who has spent to play, I feel you have just been taken advantage of by the "bait & switch" going on with this game].

These constant changes in the basic game strategy are very discouraging to say the least. There have been soooooo many changes, that it's not worth mentioning again, but this latest is the worst... to offer up great troops that finally give me the edge [Granite Golems and Sorc III] and then take them away [by making them weaker]? I thought this was a bonus for moving thru the game and I was finally getting a reward. It felt that I finally had worked thru the game, "correctly" [use the word very loosely], and had made it to a point that my achievement provided me an advantage. Yet it sounds like the developers don't want us to experience that type of "reward feeling", this sense of accomplishment...I can only presume they want us to feel, more of a "survival" type of feeling...that if we don't keep up and play the game the exact way they imagine, that we'll get left behind...stuck, and unable to play or move forward. Less goal oriented type of strategy and more of "your lucky we let you play for free" approach.

I just don't get it...and to read a forum moderator say something like..."now you won't be able to just slaughter everything in sight with the Granite Golems"....etc, etc.... ! Boy, I wish that were true....and such a vindictive attitude of a moderator. Yes they are great, but I'm not swimming in excess expansions or ranking points because of it....I'm just keeping up.

Well, the new players won't know any of this, but the long time players, like myself who don't pay-to-play, probably will not be able to see many new visiting races. Any advantage a none-paying player has is being eliminated and it will get too frustrating without spending dollars to play.

This game has changed significantly from when I started, which is getting close to a year now. Truly - I would drop this game much earlier if I was just starting now. It's just not the same game anymore.

 

[DeletedUser43]

.and such a vindictive attitude of a moderator.

^^ That!!!

In fact, the devs are vindictive if not more so. They actually think that we have "gotten away" with something and that our troops we "vastly overpowered". "In the old system, we had several units that would be almost a guaranteed win in any fight, in any encounter, at any distance. We hope that we can all agree that those units were wildly overpowered and that, in order to restore balance, some drastic changes had to be made to those units."

Are they out of their ever loving minds? Guaranteed to win any fight? In whose dreams? I finally got some troops that were capable of winning a battle (for a while, until they got overpowered too), and they think I was overpowered?

In the tournaments it was FUN to win a battle with no losses. FUN. I enjoyed it. What is wrong with having some fun? They seem to want to stamp that out at every single turn.

I see a lot of posts of people thinking this new change will only be difficult for "advanced" players and so they don't really care what it coming. I am sorry, if you have that impression, I have not explained it well.

You don't actually fight at 6 stars. You want to call out that they 'forgot' 6 stars, when you failed to count that they actually provided 6 numbers for the tournament squad sizes (it starts at 0, with the last battle at 5 stars).

If the devs say we've been going too far out with scouts (this much should have been made obvious as soon as they added the Orc requirements to negotiations), then we've been going too far out. It sucks for players who've been pushing the envelope for months to have changes implemented in the game that effectively roadblock them, but in those cases just consider that you now have an advantage over someone who didn't because you got 'further than intended'.

You are right about the stars. I erred.

Pushing the envelope for months? (Wow...all of you sound exactly the same. Kind of like talking heads pushing talking points on the news.) Because, what, sending out a scout when it is done is "pushing the envelope?" But then, I don't do that either. Half the time I am asleep when the scout is done. I just send him out when I sign in. And that is too much? Tell me, exactly when should a scout be sent out?

The game has many points where it actually tells me to send out my scout. There is a repeating quest to fight 3 encounter...REPEATING quest that is. There is then a REPEATING quest to gain 4 relics...and ANOTHER repeating quest to solve 4 encounters. In the contest, right this second on beta, there is a quest to gain 17 relics followed by one that wants you to solve ANOTHER 11 encounters.

Over and over and over and over this game has you solving encounters.

Not to mention that is the only way to get space. No space, no city.

I am currently SEVENTEEN expansions behind where I should be for this chapter. SEVEN FREAKING TEEN. It will take me two years at this pace to get all the space I need right now for the orcs. TWO YEARS.

And you say I am "pushing" the envelope? What kind of snails paced, watching paint dry, do nothing kind of game do you envision?

*walks away muttering pushing the envelope, pushing the envelope, pushing the envelope. OMG!!!!!!!!!

 

[DeletedUser1016]

*walks away muttering pushing the envelope, pushing the envelope, pushing the envelope. OMG!!!!!!!!!

...I wish I could write like you....ha....lol!!!!!

 

[DeletedUser188]

I am currently SEVENTEEN expansions behind where I should be for this chapter

According to what information
Where do I find out how many expansions I should have at this point of my progress
Correct me if I am wrong
You're scout times are the highest I have heard of so you must have the most expansions earned from provinces than 99% of players
There are 4 available in research tree in orc/goblin chapter so you at least have 2 earned with 2 more to go
After you earn the 2 or maybe you already cleared them IDK
You will have earned all the ones from research and have more from the map than anyone else so you wont be behind in that way
By your own admission you don't buy diamonds
Which I must applaud you for being patient enough to trudge through this without caving to the temptation
There are currently 33 premium expansions available
If you are 17 behind that means you have earned the equivalent of 16 premium expansions from provinces ?
Or am I missing something

 

[DeletedUser43]

I am seventeen behind what fits on the available space. That means there are 17 more expansions that the orc chapter is supposed to fit on. Instead, I have an orc city on beginning fairy space. That means a lot less room for the houses I need to get the pop I need to upgrade the things that can now be upgraded that need more space to fit on.

For the first year of this game, we all had the same amount of space. The people who wanted it quickly bought it, and the rest of us slogged and eventually got it. Then they kept adding time to the scouts and releasing more space, so if you didn't pay them, you couldn't keep up. Ok...I get it....they want all the money they can. But don't come along after you cut my legs out from under me and tell me that I have more than I should now that I am so far behind! That doesn't even make sense.

And to say that I am "pushing the envelope"? By being that far behind on the space? That just doesn't make sense. What am I supposed to do with my scouts? Nothing? Aren't they supposed to scout? Of course I have longer scout times than most. I have been here since the day this game started. Most have left the building long ago. There aren't many of us left who stuck around.

But, forget me. I am just one player. I checked with my fellowship. There isn't one person who only has one day scouting times. Not a single person. So, I don't know what Inno is talking about. So far, from what I can see, the devs have nerfed fighting for every single person, no matter what level, on the world map. I guess we will see what happens here.

 

[DeletedUser2396]

So this means fighting will now be harder and 4 armories won't be enough will have to build more - so don't have the space to do that - that leaves ONE with a choice - sell off the barracks and the 4 armories i have and don't fight at all - this will of course slow me down as i will only be able to negotiate 4 encounters a day at the most - at least i will have more goods to help aid FS and not be going into World Map - this will also slow down progress and using Scouts will be delayed as well as the Dev's want apparently for us to all slow down on progress, is this As Designed:

 

[SoggyShorts]

- sell off the barracks and the 4 armories

Don't you need armories to negotiate?

 

[DeletedUser594]

You need armories to make Orcs to negotiate and you cannot sell your barracks.

 

[DeletedUser43]

I was just reading the comments on the facebook page. I feel so bad for everyone. The way they announced the new fighting system people are expecting a better, easier, system.

 

[DeletedUser2396]

oops didn't think that thur very well - lol - so being in Dwarf i will have to keep the Armories - well i could sell them off then rebuild them when i get to Orcs in about a year geesh guess i just leave the 4 for now - who knows i still might try to fight a losing battle just because i tend to get hard-headed some days - do it enought times might even win a few battles - can't sell the barracks hmmm just like the Magic Academy oh well .... lol

Devs 1 - Choices 0