Warning regarding new battle system

[DeletedUser4024]

I've only been playing this game for about 3 months, and though it's been tough enough to try to win provinces, it is now impossible for me since my troops are weaker. Instead, I have to negotiate and use all of my coins and supplies. The manufacturing buildings don't create enough supplies to support this. Basically, the game is no longer fun if I have to log in every hour of the day to try to produce them, only to have them spent within a 10 minute period. Not sure if this is ever going to be corrected. If there is a time-frame in which I just need to be patient, I would appreciate knowing; otherwise, I'm out.

I think we're out of luck Daffydil, I'm in the same boat and these are supposedly the new changes.

 

[DeletedUser1766]

Not an exception, but the people who are so unhappy about this are not listening. Everyone can easily win as long as they are not fighting beyond the ring they should be in. The further you expand beyond that "line" the more expensive it gets....and yes it does hit impossible. My expansion is not even, I have stretched in certain directions to reach trade partners, and have hit the impossible wall. I am in ch5 and I hit orcs. There are over 500 swamp monsters per squad and over 3500 light melee and light ranged per squad in that province, and did I mention orcs to negotiate. Ha, ha, ha...no way in heck am I going over that wall.
Point is, I am far far far beyond the point where I "should be". When I hit the provinces in the ring where I should be, I kick tail. One ring beyond and I kick tail, but loose allot of troops....Two rings beyond and I can't always win, I have to negotiate allot. If I push on with negotiating, eventually the orcs stop me dead in my tracks. That was rather the point.

Lets not forget another major draw, careful city planning is a major feature of this game. You have to plan ahead or you end up stuck. People who hate that generally go play a game that has a nice warehouse where they can store buildings while they re-arrange their cities. You can't do that here, by design. Its one of the things that sets this game very much apart from other city building games. I think its fun and challenging. Can you buy your way out of it, yeah sure, and some people do. But you can no longer just roll over provinces endlessly. Adding orcs put the brakes on everyone below the orc chapter. This feature just distributes the slow down across the board. Honestly though, I am in ch5 and I can still negotiate my way all the way up to orcs, its just way more resource expensive now.

I also love this game and I am probably way beyond the ring where fighting is possible as it takes my scouts 2 days to complete their task. However, this is the only way I can get the space to expand my city. I have bought as many expansions as I can afford. I even bought 2 snail palaces which I said I would never do but I have reached my limit of how much I can afford to spend on this game, at least for this year. They have not stopped me gaining provinces they have just stopped me fighting for them. I can still negotiate my way through and I do this. I was proud of the fact that I was still able to win fights in the 12th ring but that is all gone now. I will continue to expand as fast as I can afford to pay and I will still do tournaments for shards because I need them. I cannot fight in tournaments either as I lose. I do not have the time to do more than 4 provinces in tournaments. Now I have to buy them all and do lots of trades to replace my supplies. They have taken away the fun that fighting brought me. I enjoyed the strategy but I can settle for trading my way to success. It is just not as much fun. It has not stopped me.

Ok well t may take some relearning but I just won a fight in the 12th ring. I used 3 gollums and 2 sorceress units against 1 Heavy melee, 3 cannoneers and 1 archer in a gem province. I lost 1 unit of sorceress because they all targeted them until they died but the sorceress moved first reducing their ability to fight a little. I went for the archer first as I thought they would be the most dangerous to the sorceress with their special advantage. The gollums were able to take out the archers and they not as effective but still able to kill the heavy troops with the sorceress help.

Not too bad to only lose 1 unit and they are faster to replace now. I do not have pictures because I did not think of it and do not know how to take a screenshot anyway. I am just pleased that fighting is still possible if you chose your battles carefully. I am nearly at the end of the orcs but that could mean I am weeks away as it takes forever to get enough mushrooms and loot to finish techs and I still have 2 squad updates to go. If I succeed again and can work out a screenshot I may post it but I am just pleased that I finally won a fight again.

 

[DeletedUser3220]

If we can't fight on the World Map, then how on earth are we going to get expansions for all the extra rows they are preparing to open up???? I don't pay and I still have 21 spaces left to fill with about 250 provinces discovered; and I am very close to finishing the orc/goblin chapter. If the World Map if not a source, then I'm going to have to rely on whatever new visiting race chapters provide. Well, I'll wait it out for a bit longer, but if I get to a position where I can not expand, build or upgrade without spending dollars, then that is my time to exit and find another game. And if it cost dollars to expand, then it's going to be only pay-to-play players that will continue with the new visiting race chapters. Without expansions they're will be no way to upgrade to bigger buildings, and add new buildings [i.e.Ancient Wonders, Mercenary Camp and other forms of barracks, 6 Armories - maxed level, etc].

If that's the case, then it truly has become pay to play, which is not desirable to me. I don't mind on line - pay to play games, personally speaking, this particular game just isn't worth any monetary price to me. It's at most distracting and pretty to look at... I'll purchase a PS4 game before I'm have to pay for this game to continue building.......

EDIT: Thanks for the link to the Beta conversation....wow...sounds like a really bad release for advanced players....[/QUOTE
You know...I don't mind paying a little here or there but when that's not enough for the developers, I have to be done. It had already cost so much to do any advancing with money in this game, it wasn't worth it. Now, they want more. If they had been smart they would have gone the other direction with it. Making it more possible and enticing to use money more often. They have forgot what had made this game great and just got greedy, which they will lose in the long run. At this rate, I have no desire to play much longer. They have already taken this whole last year of my life and made it worthless time spent. All the battle tactics I learned (the hard way), the strategies I setup into play, gone. As I said once before in another comment, I'm on oxygen, therefore at home a lot. I was devoted to this game because I had just quit smoking when I found this world. Guess you can say I traded one habit for another. Which I thought was a good thing, not so much anymore. I will tell the ones I told how great this game was, I'm sorry!
As if that is not enough....I just activated the 32 expansion and 1 hour later it's still not available to place. I know there are better games out there and that is what Inno has forgot.

 

[DeletedUser3220]

Hey! I need to get paid!

I was losing every battle, but that was normal for me before anyways. Now I'm working toward squad size upgrades before I pout anymore. I'll try manual fighting once I'm on an even keel. I might complain some more so please stay tuned.

Not sure how you can get on an even keel with these new updates. I think our fighting days are over. I was very good at it with the strategies I learned over this last year. Not anymore! I think you got lucky on that one win....

 

[DeletedUser43]

Here are your choices: quit all negotiating and do nothing in the world map and get zero expansions and maybe one day, you might be able to win a fight if you get enough squad size upgrades which basically means watch paint dry or

realize that this is nonsense and just more player shaming. You can never be where ever they tell you that they want you to be because they keep changing their minds. If you can't fight, then this game is broken. It isn't your problem, it is theirs. Go find a game that you can fight in and have fun. Remember...that was the point of playing? Everyone is so cowed around here.

Oh please Mr. Dev...what can I do to play properly so you let me? People...come on!! Don't let them do this to you!! Put the blame where it belongs...on their game development. You don't have to stand on one foot with your hand on your head holding your breath while drinking a glass of water to play a video game. There are THOUSANDS of video games out there that would bend over backwards to give you a fun game to play.

 

[DeletedUser1016]

Go find a game that you can fight in and have fun. Remember...that was the point of playing? Everyone is so cowed around here.

I am getting there Bobbykitty....I thought this new battle release was mostly about revamping the fighting aspect of the game, but it really is much more far reaching then that. I can't build troops overnight anymore. Before the latest release, I had too many armories and I was building 16hrs without babysitting so I demolished all my armories except 2 and upgraded by Dwarven Bulwark and could still build troops none stop for about 10hrs.... Now after the release I need more armories again. So now I'm scrambling to build 10 armories so that I can finally upgrade a couple more to max and build overnight....I've got my troops from a 5hr time frame to now a 6 1/2 hr time frame.....better, but I still am upgrading my armories so I'm hoping to get an 8hr maximum build time.

Now I am running out of Supplies!!!! Is this what's happening to everyone? If I increase the number of armories to 4 or 5, then do I have to increase my Workshops too????? What do you need to be able to build troops overnight, say 8hrs? 5 armories and perhaps 15 workshops? Yikes!

And once stage 2 and 3 are released we need more space to finally build the Merc-camp and the other new buildings for dogs/cannoneers? This is becoming ridiculous at such a late stage of the game for me. I don't purchase diamonds and it looks like the only way to accommodate all these revisions to the game is to expand...but how if they don't provide expansions, or ways to get them? [free that is]...

Not being able to build troops overnight might just be the deal breaker for me. That probably sounds petty, but after all this time playing and working to get everything operating to it's highest efficiency and optimum potential, and then to make that impossible is just incredibly frustrating.

 

[DeletedUser3696]

I am getting there Bobbykitty....I thought this new battle release was mostly about revamping the fighting aspect of the game, but it really is much more far reaching then that. I can't build troops overnight anymore. Before the latest release, I had too many armories and I was building 16hrs without babysitting so I demolished all my armories except 2 and upgraded by Dwarven Bulwark and could still build troops none stop for about 10hrs.... Now after the release I need more armories again. So now I'm scrambling to build 10 armories so that I can finally upgrade a couple more to max and build overnight....I've got my troops from a 5hr time frame to now a 6 1/2 hr time frame.....better, but I still am upgrading my armories so I'm hoping to get an 8hr maximum build time.

Now I am running out of Supplies!!!! Is this what's happening to everyone? If I increase the number of armories to 4 or 5, then do I have to increase my Workshops too????? What do you need to be able to build troops overnight, say 8hrs? 5 armories and perhaps 15 workshops? Yikes!

And once stage 2 and 3 are released we need more space to finally build the Merc-camp and the other new buildings for dogs/cannoneers? This is becoming ridiculous at such a late stage of the game for me. I don't purchase diamonds and it looks like the only way to accommodate all these revisions to the game is to expand...but how if they don't provide expansions, or ways to get them? [free that is]...

Not being able to build troops overnight might just be the deal breaker for me. That probably sounds petty, but after all this time playing and working to get everything operating to it's highest efficiency and optimum potential, and then to make that impossible is just incredibly frustrating.

Wait until someone tells you that you've obviously played the game wrong and only now balance is being brought back

 

[DeletedUser1016]

I've finally put it together! The training size corresponds to the hours of production!!! Dah!!! With 2 armories [160 each training size] and lvl 5 DB wonder [180 training size] I had 500 in training size [160+160+180=500], hence 5hrs to train a fully loaded barracks. Presently I have the above and I have added 8 more armories from lvl 5 thru lvl 10 [and still upgrading] and presently I have a training size of 630 troops, so now I can train for 6 1/2hrs. So if I want to train for 8 hrs [I'd rather be back over 10hrs, but dream on], I would need a training troops size of 800! With each armory [lvl 23-orc level] at 160 training size, I am estimating I would need 5 armories [5x160=800]. Wow! Then you'd need the corresponding workshops to make the troops...I have no idea what that is --- and I don't care to figure it out.....the change in armory building requirements is quite enough for me to see where this is all going...and it doesn't favor a player like myself, that's for sure.....

 

[DeletedUser]

I am pretty much completely frozen out of all provinces now. Haven't been able to negotiate provinces since I hit the Orc requirement while still in the Dwarves chapter, and now I'm part way through Fairies & still don't have Orcs yet. So, I can't negotiate any province. I have tried fighting in EVERY SINGLE province I currently have open, and I chose the fight with the least amount of opponents, yet I *cannot* win. I end up surrendering every time to minimize my losses.

In the "easiest" of battles that are open to me, I cannot win. I belong to multiple Elvenar FB groups & have implemented those tips. I have watched examples of battles, I have followed flow charts, I have read this forum, I have asked my FS members for advice, I have used arithmetic to figure out what my odds are of winning against enemy troops, and I have even just tried dumb luck. However, NOTHING HAS WORKED. I have not won any fight since this "battle upgrade" has happened. I cannot negotiate provinces because a previous "upgrade" locked me out since I'm not in the Orc chapter, and now this latest "upgrade" has taken my ability to fight as well.

Can't negotiate in provinces. Can't fight in provinces. Can't complete ANY provinces at all, at least until I can breed Orcs for negotiating purposes, and guess what? I need 1174 more KP until I complete the Orc Breeding Grounds.

One thousand, one hundred & seventy-four KP until I can win ANY province.

Yes, I do know that there are a couple of Squad Size Upgrades available to me between now & the Orc Breeding Grounds, but I'm also reading replies from other players all over the place that tell me I shouldn't hold my breath on those, because others already have them complete and are struggling still anyway. So, yes, I'm kind of discounting the so-called 'boost' they are going to give me.

As we all know (or should know, if you play this game), if you can't complete provinces, you miss out on both KP *and* relics, not to mention Runes. Relics affect your ability to make spells, which affect how much goods & supplies you can earn. If you don't have the relics, you can't create the spell. Missing out on KP affects your ability to go through the Research Tree, upgrade your AWs or apply "extra" KP to someone else's AW. It also affects your team-playing in your FS if you have an AW KP exchange. Not earning Runes as you complete full provinces affects what you can & cannot build, which affects what's happening in your city.

I did just get moved over to an area with a lot more neighbors, which absolutely is something to be glad about. But, when I cannot complete provinces, I cannot open adjoining provinces that let me reach new neighbors to trade with & visit with.

I cannot complete any provinces, so I cannot earn expansions. Certainly that affects game play. Between now & when I earn the Orc Breeding Grounds, I have 2 Expansions that I can earn in the Research Tree. I could buy 17 more before the current space in my City would be completely open to me. I have purchased diamonds in the past & would have done so in the future, but I'm taking part in the refusal to spend one more dime on this game as protest to these awful changes.

The only reason I'm still around at this point is because I like the people I play with, even though I'm watching a lot of them wave goodbye themselves. This is so disappointing.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Maybe we can all travels to another game? Anyone have any ideas? There are a whole lot of us. Think about how much fun it would be to all play together! There must be something.

 

[DeletedUser2764]

I dont give a crap what anyone says,this game is impossible to play without paying,you can say its free all you want but you will never have certain buildings or all the upgrades with the population needed for them and the room without paying.this is a pay to play game no matter what any one says.you have to have room fr every upgrade,you have to have more and more people for the upgrades which means you have to build more houses which means more room or you have to buy poulation,more room,and now you cannot fight to get more expansions which means you have to buy the expansions,and they get more expensive each one you buy.it will cost me 1000 diamonds for one now,it says I have 21 I can buy,and the next one would be about 1200 and so forth and so on,and the only choice is to buy now.I can not go any further without it.and i am not getting rid of anything I have.i would quit playing before I do.these developers are only in this game for the money,I dont care what anyone says.this game motto should be mo money,mo money,cause thats is the truth!

 

[DeletedUser43]

You should see the new chapter. OMG. They have a new culture building in the wood elf chapter.....10,100 culture for 3500 diamonds. If we thought snails were the game changer......

I don't care if a company makes money, but they constantly orc dung all over everyone who gives them money. If you paid for faster scouts or any number of other things, now you are punished for it. Don't worry...whatever they sell the diamond players today will be obsolete by tomorrow. They can never demand enough money from people. Pay up MORE or lose all your progress...and pay up more still if you want to stay on top....and then....well....after we chastise you for progressing too fast, we will then sell you something else that will be worthless in about an hour.

I don't like the way they treat people around here. They aren't getting any money from me.

 

[DeletedUser1016]

now you cannot fight to get more expansions which means you have to buy the expansions

You hit the nail on the head Phylmike34! It's clear, w/o expansions there's "really" no game. All these other items to be purchased are just a distraction, ultimately everyone playing needs more space.

So if you pay, it's a none issue.

They aren't getting any money from me.

...and a great, big "DITTO" !!!!

They have a new culture building in the wood elf chapter.....

How do you like the new chapter BobbyKitty?

 

[DeletedUser43]

I was really looking forward to the new chapter at first, but it isn't much of anything. It comes with a bunch of new fighting things, and well, fighting has been nerfed. So who cares? It is all just mocking me at this point. Plus, it comes with a paltry 3 new expansions. Ooooh!! I can upgrade one building! Yippee. The main hall gets bigger again. Planks factories get bigger again. But barely any space.

Plus, it is the biggest separation yet of the rich and the poor. There is a new culture item, for sale of course, that gives you 10,000 culture!!!!! The rest of the peons who are to be smashed get nothing. You get a new culture building that produces some mana you need that is larger than the bbq's and produce LESS culture per square. PLUS they need roads. And of course all the new buildings need culture to be built.

Bottom line, it is more of an extortion than a new chapter release. Ha ha...look at all this cool stuff you can't have unless you give us lots and lots of money.

Anyone who bought all those snails can now put those in the trash and open up the wallet again.

Maybe some people will like it. I'm just defeated.

 

[DeletedUser1016]

Anyone who bought all those snails can now put those in the trash and open up the wallet again.

Glad I haven't spent any money on this game. When I started this game it was relatively new and it was too risky to invest in. I didn't trust that it would make it and now I'm glad I didn't.

Maybe some people will like it. I'm just defeated.

I hear ya - I'm not defeated yet, I'm still curious. I've resigned myself to a small city and being in the top 200 players [or there abouts].

 

[DeletedUser43]

At least I'm done with the orcs! I'll be in woodelves before I put my city back together.

 

[DeletedUser]

Sharing this feedback from a FS member with comments that I posted on the Wonky Walter thread -

Wanted to come in again & say that a member of my FS cannot complete the Wonky Walter quest because they are stuck on #10, which is "Produce 2 Power of Provision Spells". In order to make Power of Provision spells, a player must 'spend' 1 Planks relic & 1 Crystal relic. This player has no Plank relics. They have two Plank provinces open, but they cannot pay to negotiate them because there are Orc costs, and this player does not yet have Orcs. They cannot win by fighting because their troops are outnumbered & they keep losing, which is decimating their troop levels. They are in Dwarves.

If the game continues, I will be in a similar position in the not-too-distant future, as my Planks Relics are dwindling down since Power of Provision spells are the ones I use most frequently.

By the way, the player in my FS has 14 Goddess of Fertility culture buildings - they are invested in this game for sure! That is 690 Diamonds EACH!
They also have other culture buildings that cost diamonds, so certainly it adds up!

Yet they cannot play this game! Even having built the Magic Academy, they cannot make spells.

 

[DeletedUser2764]

Sharing this feedback from a FS member with comments that I posted on the Wonky Walter thread -



If the game continues, I will be in a similar position in the not-too-distant future, as my Planks Relics are dwindling down since Power of Provision spells are the ones I use most frequently.

By the way, the player in my FS has 14 Goddess of Fertility culture buildings - they are invested in this game for sure! That is 690 Diamonds EACH!
They also have other culture buildings that cost diamonds, so certainly it adds up!

Yet they cannot play this game! Even having built the Magic Academy, they cannot make spells.

these developers should be ashamed of themselves,the way they have screwed us over.

 

[DeletedUser1766]

I am looking forward to the woodelves for a chance to make my city look nice again. I really do not like orcs. As for the fighting. I have been struggling with this and while I do lose some fights I also win some. I am still working on strategies for the provinces as they have also changed the troop mix there. So far I have managed to win a silk province with just treants but I lost 2 groups doing it because the mages were so hard to catch. I found that the archers killed the mages but you had to be careful as the archers died really quickly if they did not get the shot in first.

I am finding that archers are more useful now so I have started training them again. I do understand their pentagram but it only looks at the strengths of each unit in a perfect world. It does not factor in terrain. I still have a problem that mortars can killed from the back of the field before the elves have any troops in range and that seems very unfair. We have nothing that is that effective, the Cerberus might help. So far only the treants and gollums seem to have the health points to survive long enough to reach them. I have now changed my strategy. Instead of trying to win without losing any troops as I used to, I now aim the specific unit at its target and hope it gets there before it dies. If this happens then they can kill. I choose my battles really carefully. If the greatest number of opponents are mortar units then I send in treants, sure the mage will get some unless they move into range of a treant but of the 5 groups I send in usually 3 will last long enough to kill the enemy. It all depends on which unit is the highest number and how vulnerable the unit that targets them is. Archers are good at killing mages but they die easily if hit by anything really. You can have 1500 of them and they will die in just 2 hits. That is ok if they kill the mage first but if not you have lost a group and still have a nasty enemy. Their mages are much more dangerous than they used to be and hurt mine worse. My sorcerous used to be my best unit now they die too fast and I have 2 few.

My fellowship is currently working on a unit combination for each province. It works for the lower level players but we are still testing it for the provinces that are way out. I am at the 12th ring or so and I am still fighting. I can negotiate as I have orcs but the cost is high so I still try and fight as much as possible, which is not often but not impossible just hard. For gems we are trying treants and sorceress. The danger for the mage are ranged units. If the terrain is ok you can block access with treant bodies. Those guys are tough. I do not have the highest archer upgrade yet but I am hoping it will help.

I complained as loudly as anyone when the changes came in but I am willing to wait for the whole upgrade to see how things are. I have 9 more expansion slots and I need a lot of provinces to get them. I have spent my game budget for this year. I do not care how nice their diamond buys are with the exchange rate for the Australian dollar the way it is at the moment I cannot afford to buy any more.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Nimbrethil, that is great info. You should post it in the thread about tips on winning battles so it doesn't get lost and buried in this thread.