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    Your Elvenar Team

Wholesaler - UNDO the Rip-off

  • Thread starter DeletedUser4471
  • Start date

DeletedUser6390

Guest
I read every day but never post.. I've been playing since the Halloween event. I'm at the end of chapter 5.

The Trader changes are irritating, but won't impact me much other than getting *something out of getting rid of excess coins.

That said, do you *really think people were using the trader SO often (or well?) that they were massively getting ahead in tourneys and exploring? Because good golly they had to have used a LOT of coins/supplies to make a dent in negotiating...and I say that as someone who has not explored much past where I "should". I have to work every time to make sure I'm at the right amount to open each chapter. (my point being that things arent all that spendy for me)

I ask because, if that is happening enough for them to want to nerf it.. my ignorance is not willful.. its in awe.
 

DeletedUser188

Guest
Who uses the wholesaler to advance in the game ? Not a very good strategy
Its always been such a rip off and now even more of one
Myself I only use it to dump extra coin and now it wont take as many clicks to get rid of them
At no chapter or regardless of being in FS have I ever relied on WS for anything other than a dumpster and I advanced thru the chapters
 
Devman

Devman

Active Member
Katwijk said:
willfully ignoring
Click to expand...

"willfully ignoring" ? Please . That is insulting .

Katwijk said:
some boundaries
Click to expand...

Yes, "some" boundaries , Not "mostly" boundaries .

Katwijk said:
attractive, to a wider range of players
Click to expand...

Yes, I see all the post from the wider range of players . They're not attracted .

Katwijk said:
similar for both negotiating and fighting
Click to expand...

Sooo ... if one element of the game is broken , brake something else so it evens out . Nice o_O
 

DeletedUser5278

Guest
Katwijk said:
Everybody is willfully ignoring the obvious reason WHY the wholesaler costs now increase EACH time to buy something for coins. Folks were using the excess goods to NEGOTIATE provinces and tournaments well past where they would be able to acquire those same provinces by fighting.

You may well disagree that the game SHOULD have some boundaries, but the developers quite obviously think the game will be more attractive, to a wider range of players, if the boundary conditions are similar for both negotiating and fighting.
Click to expand...
Respectfully -- with the game changes, not all of us can fight. I was able to win one fight in levels one and two - and had to negotiate all of the others. I'm worrying not so much about mid-to-advanced level players but the entry level players who Inno is aggressively recruiting via Facebook. Many of them don't have the capacity to generate many goods, trade much or have a large coin reserve. If Inno makes it harder for them to get the last goods they need for a province - or to complete a level in the research tree -- many could get frustrated and move to a game where they can be more active and feel they can progress. A smaller pool of rising players will also make it harder to recruit new players for fellowships.
 

DeletedUser6476

Guest
Katwijk said:
Everybody is willfully ignoring the obvious reason WHY the wholesaler costs now increase EACH time to buy something for coins, with a reset after 11 hours. Folks were using the excess goods, which they acquired with coins, to NEGOTIATE provinces and tournaments well past where they would be able to acquire those same provinces by fighting.
Click to expand...

I would openly disagree Katwijk. I am lucky is I negotiate a province a week. I only have the goods to do two levels in tournaments even though I have 8 of them unlocked. Why should those who choose to negotiate be punished even more than they already are?
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
@Katwijk
You keep on bringing up excuses. But your and their reasoning is wrong. Not to mention it generally is a very bad policy to continuously screw your customers.
You can state that players advance too fast and its a lot of crack. Its the ONLY way for players on that level to advance since they already made all other ways impossible.
And the whole idea of telling people not to advance goes against the very purpose of playing a game.

For me this is the last straw. Ive set a deadline for myself. Before the end of the month this is undone, or Im gone. And I ll say now that if I leave, there will be several other players going as well since we started as a tight group and many of them feel the same way. I feel kinda bad for the people in those FSs who are going to be left when the core drops out, but I have no more interest in playing a game that only frustrates me more with every update.
 

DeletedUser6390

Guest
A fellowship member mentioned something that I had not even considered, but she is very right.

I am much less inclined to visit neighbors if I cannot find a reasonable way to put the coins (that I didn't really need in the first place) to use. So now I can use those coins to scout past where I am "supposed too" in order to help neighbors and get that cash back. Or I can.. do it for no reason. Or.. I can just *not do it. which do you think most will choose?
 

DeletedUser6476

Guest
+1000 I would like it twice if I could.
Cranky the First said:
Riiight. The reason negotiation is allowed in the first place is to allow those players who are concentrating on BUILDING THEIR CITIES (this is a CITYBUILDER first and foremost, after all) to expand just like the war-hawks do. It ALSO, as a side-benefit, mimics real life. Look at all the trade agreements in the real world, Katwijk.
Click to expand...
 

DeletedUser6471

Guest
Cranky the First said:
Riiight. The reason negotiation is allowed in the first place is to allow those players who are concentrating on BUILDING THEIR CITIES (this is a CITYBUILDER first and foremost, after all) to expand just like the war-hawks do. It ALSO, as a side-benefit, mimics real life. Look at all the trade agreements in the real world, Katwijk.
Click to expand...

AMEN BROTHER! I don't play fighting games but this one gave me the opportunity to try my hand at it.
 
ekarat

ekarat

Well-Known Member
Devil's Advocate: The Wholesaler was indended to be a way to get rid of excess resources in exchange for something that was better than nothing. It wasn't intended to be a good deal. I tried to avoid using it if I could, and I still do.

Oh, and to the idea of a KP reset -- if they did that, they would increase the base cost, which would also go up every time you enter a new age. Basically, KPs would get more expensive, not cheaper, unless you bought a whole lot of KPs.

Personally, I recently realized that I hadn't been taking advantage of the KP purchase options, so I've been flooded with cheap KPs.
 
Thistleknot

Thistleknot

Well-Known Member
I think PeriAW has an interesting point. I have a huge area that I have explored, now at 333 provinces. Up until now, I would give neighborly help to everyone at least 4 times a week. Now I have less of an incentive to assist these people because I have no good outlet for the additional coin.

Katwijk said:
Folks were using the excess goods, which they acquired with coins, to NEGOTIATE provinces and tournaments well past where they would be able to acquire those same provinces by fighting.
Click to expand...
I use the wholesaler on a regular basis and have the Blooming Trader Guild (lvl 5) that increases the goods purchased. I am not purchasing enough goods that I could negotiate a province. The price at the wholesaler was never good enough to be able to do that. The purchases over time definitely add up, but this never seemed to be something that could throw the game out of balance. I currently have a level 23 Main Hall with a coin storage of 11,900,000. If I were able to empty it and refill it everyday, I could still only purchase one of the following each day: 43,660 Tier 1 goods or 10,360 Tier 2 goods or 2220 Tier 3 goods. If you don't have the Blooming Trader's Guild at level 5, this drops to 29,500 goods, 7000 goods, or 1500 goods. If I need roughly 44k of each tier to negotiate a ring-12 province, it would take me roughly 26 days to do so using the wholesaler. There is no way this could be considered an unbalancing situation. Now I shudder to think how much time it would take.

I do wish there was an explanation from the devs as to why they thought this change was necessary. I may not have liked the previous changes, but I could at least understand what they were trying to accomplish. This one boggles my mind.
 
edeba

edeba

Well-Known Member
I've seen it in other games where developers are over influenced by arguments for a game style because it is the game style the player favors and it helps them get more points and has nothing to do with making or keeping a better quality game for the masses.

Devman said:
"willfully ignoring" ? Please . That is insulting .

Yes, "some" boundaries , Not "mostly" boundaries .

Yes, I see all the post from the wider range of players . They're not attracted .

Sooo ... if one element of the game is broken , brake something else so it evens out . Nice o_O
Click to expand...

Totally agree that the reasoning is wrong. People build entire gaming strategy around the game design. I don't care much for the battle part of the game and I don't think the game would have caught my interest as much had I started with this wholesaler. I found the game painfully slow to get a half decent base to get going and it does seem to me the majority of the players who try this game don't get past that point. Daily new players pop in and they do nothing to grow their cities. If you want to hook new players, you've got to keep them busy to start, and this game is poor in that area, and drastically worse now.

Their lack of appreciation of real game value already discouraged me from any more spending.

Dhurrin said:
@Katwijk
You keep on bringing up excuses. But your and their reasoning is wrong. Not to mention it generally is a very bad policy to continuously screw your customers.
You can state that players advance too fast and its a lot of crack. Its the ONLY way for players on that level to advance since they already made all other ways impossible.
And the whole idea of telling people not to advance goes against the very purpose of playing a game.

For me this is the last straw. Ive set a deadline for myself. Before the end of the month this is undone, or Im gone. And I ll say now that if I leave, there will be several other players going as well since we started as a tight group and many of them feel the same way. I feel kinda bad for the people in those FSs who are going to be left when the core drops out, but I have no more interest in playing a game that only frustrates me more with every update.
Click to expand...

I never thought the wholesaler was a good deal and always thought it to be expensive. I only occasionally used it, when trading for supplies was impossible because of shortages. Now it is a bad joke.

I like a KP reset idea. How about cut the cost in half every time you start a new chapter. Those that use them the most would have biggest benefit in terms of knocking the cost back, but it would provide more incentive to visit and give a place for the extra coin.

ekarat said:
Devil's Advocate: The Wholesaler was indended to be a way to get rid of excess resources in exchange for something that was better than nothing. It wasn't intended to be a good deal. I tried to avoid using it if I could, and I still do.

Oh, and to the idea of a KP reset -- if they did that, they would increase the base cost, which would also go up every time you enter a new age. Basically, KPs would get more expensive, not cheaper, unless you bought a whole lot of KPs.

Personally, I recently realized that I hadn't been taking advantage of the KP purchase options, so I've been flooded with cheap KPs.
Click to expand...
 

DeletedUser6480

Guest
Glad I haven't spent a dime on this game, I was considering it but between the forced Magic Academy quest and this new wholesaler change, it is pretty insultingly obvious they're intending to make people feel the need to spend real money on this game instead of appealing to the desire of the player to support good design choices by making real money purchases. I feel sorry for the people in the top 20 or so ranking that spent so much on those snails just to see their money wasted on choices like this. This effort towards cheapening the already dwindling experience could've been spent on a mobile version. I also seem to have noticed a weird fog effect now in the player city? What does that even add to the experience besides a feeble attempt at distracting from bad design choice? Lastly, if you really want to rebalance the combat and make it fun and engaging, which adds revenue in a way that isn't sleazy then you should look no further than a really old game that did hexagonal combat well, Heroes of Might and Magic II. Having your combat aspect put to shame by a game made in October 1st, of 1996 should really make you re-evaluate your focus on getting rid of forced gameplay(academy) sleazy paid content nudging (wholesaler change) and then back to improving the combat so it doesn't get outshined by a videogame from the 90's.
 
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