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    Your Elvenar Team

Discussion Winter Magic - Discussion

helya

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Hello everyone,

The upcoming Winter Magic event has just been announced.
As always, please let us know what you like/dislike/love/hate in this thread!

We look forward to your feedback
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
TomatoeHu's quest and rewards list:
www.tinyurl.com/wintermagic2020

Based on Beta: Excellent work inno. The best format in years ever with completely guaranteed prizes.

Players: This is NOT the flawed scratchcard system you've seen before. The reshuffle button has been taken off the map and you now have total control of it.
So far the sweet prize is the Goblin Gift Shop, the best per square pop&culture hybrid ever offered! It comes out on day 9 (and hopefully again later) If you have all possible quests caught up by that time you are guaranteed 8 of them with a realistic expectation of 10-12.

On strategy: The reshuffle seems expensive, but really if you plan to complete all of the quests then you can afford to click it 30x and will still guarantee enough presents to evolve your owl to level 8 which if there is a matching FA would make it level 10.
As an example, I've spent just over 3,000 of what will be well over 5,000 keys and I reshuffled immediately after I won the daily each time. That got me 12 of them and I only need 40 more presents for a 7th artifact.
 
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Henroo

Well-Known Member
he Goblin Gift Shop, the best per square pop&culture hybrid ever offered! It comes out on day 9 (and hopefully again later) If you have all possible quests caught up by that time you are guaranteed 8 of them with a realistic expectation of 10-12.
I am not disputing you. I am just wondering how total efficiency on a hybrid building is calculated. It seems it give lots of population but not that much culture. I assume this is considered better than a building which gives lots of culture but not much population? Is there a formula or anything like that to calculate efficiency of these buildings?
 
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Frappuccino

Member
I'm just looking at the available information on the winter event. I think the new evolving building doesn't seem particularly useful in comparison towards the Witches Hut. It's the only other evolving building that I really have to compare for personal experience:

New building gives a small amount of Culture/Population: Not really worth the space it takes imo.
Also 4x4.
About 2x the Supplies of Witches Hut. Suppose this is nice if you have an issue with this.
Tier 1 Goods. The amount it gives is I guess decent and it can be accentuated by feeding it Pet Food.


Just for the supplies and the goods though. Unsure if it's really worth taking up a 4x4 space in a city. If it had comparable culture boost towards Witches Hut I think it would be worth the space.


Hut at least gives decent culture, knowledge points, troops, and supplies.

Culture is useful to keep city balance.
KP is always useful for advancement in the game. Even if your blocked at a point it can be invested in wonders.
Troops are great for free fodder towards tournaments and spire.
And supplies are probably the least useful contribution that the hut gives. I think if you have a good balance of workshops to other buildings you normally sit in a surplus.
I'm aware that numbers may not be final, but I don't see the point other than aesthetic in using this building in a city unless you have nothing else to take it's place but I think you could very easily leave this out in any city. Would like to see this building give a bit more culture to at least make it semi-decent in utilizing.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
@Henroo

I keep it simple.

First I calculate what my best building does per square and then I divide the hybrids production by that number.

So for me the goblin gift shop provides 440 pop and 97 culture.


I calculate the per square production of my highest culture building(lava codex 2×2 @ 115 culture per square) and then calculate my houses (3x3) population per square 46.6. Then I divide the goblin gift shop's production by those numbers.

97÷115=0.84
440÷46.6=9.44

.84+9.44=10.28.
In chapter 5 the goblin gift shop is a 3×3 and it is worth 10.28 squares.

The event buildings are always worth more squares than my calculation because I do not calculate out road space, population, supply or culture requirements of standard buildings.

For me this building gets a pass. It provides enough population to replace an entire house, which is awsome! It does not provide coins so for me, 20 extra people are not worth the loss of a house's gold production.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I am not disputing you. I am just wondering how total efficiency on a hybrid building is calculated. It seems it give lots of population but not that much culture. I assume this is considered better than a building which gives lots of culture but not much population? Is there a formula or anything like that to calculate efficiency of these buildings?
To be honest, I just use pop per square and give culture a value of zero.
Since residences take culture away, any hybrid culture&pop building is automatically better than a residence on that side.
Realistically once a city takes the plunge and goes for hybrids over residences culture becomes a non-issue.* I've been at 160-170% without visits for years and have zero pure culture buildings, ever.

I suppose if you want to compare this year's offerings to older ones like the winter star, sure you lose a few hundred culture to gain a couple of hundred pop, and how that balances for any city will be different.

If you wanted a formula you'd probably have to work backwards:
First, decide what you want your culture bonus to be
Next, calculate the culture needed to reach that goal: tinyurl.com/culturecalc
Then figure out your current pop/square from existing buildings within your city.
With that information, you should be able to find your culture per square and pop/sq needs and get a ratio.
Put it all together and you could assign a point value to any hybrid.

Alternatively, you can take the best available culture for your chapter (non-event item) and compare the culture per square vs the pop per square.
of your residences. Don't forget to factor in roads and culture required for those residences, this makes a very significant difference.
Also don't make the mistake of comparing your BEST culture to a new offering, unless you delete and replace your best buildings first?

*Note: Going the Hybrid route is a commitment. It must be regularly maintained either through RR spells or new events if you progress at a decent pace through the chapters.
Note: Hybrids get a HUGE boost post chapter 8- nearly a 100% jump in pop per square, so before that, they aren't nearly as impressive.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
I'm aware that numbers may not be final, but I don't see the point other than aesthetic in using this building in a city unless you have nothing else to take it's place but I think you could very easily leave this out in any city. Would like to see this building give a bit more culture to at least make it semi-decent in utilizing.
I have a catering city so the watchful winter owl is actually pretty sweet for my build.
 
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Frappuccino

Member
In what chapter does it become equivalent to a housing building? Past 9? Before that it's woefully short of a housing building and I haven't looked at the housing available at 9+ but I'm sure it's scales equally bad.
 

samidodamage

Well-Known Member
@Henroo
Comparing the pop/culture hybrids: I compare the per square pop to a max level residence per square. Then I look at how much culture I will get back by deleting that residence plus the culture I get from the hybrid.
Example: Ch15 city, lvl 35 residence (max for ch 15) 5x3 gives 4700 pop (313/sq) and takes 2044 culture
Goblin Gift Shop: 3x3 gives 5089 pop (565/sq) and gives 1131 culture
So I could put in this hybrid, remove a residence, gain 389 pop, gain 3175 culture, gain 6 squares of space and it doesn't even need a road...
I could put a 2nd one in, remove a 2nd residence, same gains in pop/culture as the 1st and now I have 12 squares of space gained and I can put in the 3rd without giving up a residence and gain another 5089 pop & another 1131 culture, plus still have a net gain of 3 squares of space. So for 3 of them I have a net gain of 5867pop, 7481 culture, 3 squares of space plus whatever road tiles I was using for the 2 residences I deleted.
Pretty sure this method is full of math holes, lol, but it works for me! Also, like Soggy, higher chapters, always at or above 170% culture bonus since I started replacing residences with hybrids (started sometime in the S&D chapter once I got a good handle on mana) and the only 'culture only' bldgs I might have are there because I like them, not because I need them. Once I started playing the Spire and getting magic houses/ws either by winning them or the diamonds to buy them I now have all magic houses and won't replace those with the hybrid. I'll probably replace some of the older hybrids I got just to change up the look of things. I'm not really attached to the Halfling Folk Bands and though I like the Mother Dragon, 8 of them is way too many, lol!
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
In what chapter does it become equivalent to a housing building? Past 9? Before that it's woefully short of a housing building and I haven't looked at the housing available at 9+ but I'm sure it's scales equally bad.
Don't be so sure, they jump almost 100% in efficiency at that point.
Which I had totally forgotten about until @Iyapo1 pointed out that the best hybrid this year is only slightly better than a residence&Lava codex combo in chapter 5
goblinjump.png
 
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samidodamage

Well-Known Member
In what chapter does it become equivalent to a housing building?
The Goblin?
A max lvl Orc house (Ch8) is 4x3 and gives 900pop, so 75pop/sq. An Orc Goblin is 3x3 and gives 827 pop, so 91pop/sq. That doesn't even take into consideration that the house is taking 382 culture + road(s) and the Goblin gives 184 culture and doesn't need a road.
A max level Woodelves (Ch9) residence is 4x3 and gives 1200pop, so 100pop/sq. A Woodelves Goblin is 3x3 and gives 1564 pop, so 173/sq. That doesn't even take into consideration that the house is taking 475 culture +road(s) and the Goblin gives 348 culture and doesn't need a road...
No more time right now to work out the comps below Ch8, but in my view, it's better than a max lvl Orc house...
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
So its all about a single daily bldg for this whole event? And if it's that good How long till it gets the Nerf?
That is the only good new building, but there are all the old Winter buildings showing up as daily prizes. The Winter Star, or a few others, could pop up during the final 12 days that we do not know about yet. Look at the list on elvenarchitect of the top pop event buildings and you will see 10 of the top 12 are all from various Winter events.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
So its all about a single daily bldg for this whole event? And if it's that good How long till it gets the Nerf?
It's the best new pop&culture hybrid, which is for my playstyle the most efficient building type, so that's what every event is about for me.
There are plenty of other pretty and/or useful buildings that suit various chapters and playstyles as well as the usual non-building offers of troop instants, portal profits etc.