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    Your Elvenar Team

Winter Magic Event Feedback

  • Thread starter DeletedUser4194
  • Start date

Tauriel Dragonwood

Well-Known Member
@chgobob33 I don't understand when you say "There are only so many little things that they can add for quests to try and balance it out." How did the game devs do it before they decided to use algorithms? One of the IT techs I know said that's the lazy way to design quests in an event. When you let the computer choose which quests show up instead of having people sit down and arrange the quests in an event, you're going to see repetitious quests over and over. A human brain would know that it's wrong to ask the players to produce a humongous amount of supplies 5 times in a row. A computer's algorithm doesn't know that. I was constantly receiving back-to-back quests to produce supplies and gain 20-25 Vision Vapor. I would log on, aid my fellowship and only be able to complete one quest several days in a row, each time I received the same random quest.
 

DeletedUser24487

Guest
I really didn't care for the shuffle. I missed out on a few things that I really wanted, because I saved up my ribbons to get something that was better than just a basic prize, and when I had my chances narrowed down to where my next click would pay off......boom.......I would get the dreaded shuffle, and have to start all over again. I also agree with some of the others that have responded about not receiving enough ribbons for completing quests early on in the event. I feel that this prevented me from evolving my Gingerbread house to the final level.
 

DeletedUser3468

Guest
I really didn't care for the shuffle. I missed out on a few things that I really wanted, because I saved up my ribbons to get something that was better than just a basic prize, and when I had my chances narrowed down to where my next click would pay off......boom.......I would get the dreaded shuffle, and have to start all over again. I also agree with some of the others that have responded about not receiving enough ribbons for completing quests early on in the event. I feel that this prevented me from evolving my Gingerbread house to the final level.

Seriously, am I the only person who actually liked the shuffle??? (@TirinDar - no criticism intended. :) Your's was just the most recent post about it! ;))
I saw it as an extra hammer... Of course I also got pretty good at figuring out which boxes were the best ones to open even with them changing the type of item in them each time. (In other words, I was extremely lucky and got most of the dailys that I wanted! :cool: :p)
 

GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
Seriously, am I the only person who actually liked the shuffle???

I would only like the shuffle under two scenarios...
A: It doesn't exist.
B: If it MUST, then right after I cough-win-cough, the daily I am after, I get an INSTANT reshuffle.

But, both my points are moot, because I am BIASED with this. I wanted a city-strategy-playing game, NOT gambling & luck. :(

(In other words, I was extremely lucky and got most of the dailys that I wanted! :cool: :p)

Same. Mood! But, I know if I had been extremely unlucky, this post would not be. Which is case in point, at least for myself...
The whole gambling & luck thing stinks, IF, I compare it to being able to use 'some' strategy...

Like in the days of OLD here. :)

At least I didn't comment much this Event. ( Of course, that would have required me to get on the forum...I do good to login a few minutes a day a couple a times per day, anymore).

@InnoGames Check your feelings (logs)...you know it to be true. Just like me spending my entertainment budget on other entertainment NOW. But, you already know that as well. Forgive me, preaching to the 'choir'.

TY!
 

Hextapul IX

New Member
Ok, you need to step back in time a bit. When I started the game was radically different, one had no free sources of diamonds, events were very rare and the prices were different.
And there you have it....you just validated my point. NONE of the stuff was free in the past. You had to spend money on the game to accomplish what you wanted, which you happily did.

Over time, INNO has introduced free items, and powerful buildings which are more efficient WITHOUT having to spend money. The system over the past few years gave out all these items, creating a snowball effect of player in-game economic wealth. So why should anyone have to spend money?

Let me repeat that....Why should anyone have to spend money on this game? Why WOULD anyone spend money on this game, when you can simply achieve what you want with a bit of patience.

INNO is simply making it more difficult to stockpile all of these freebies. The lotto system is SPECIFICALLY geared towards preventing players from amassing these buildings. It is set up that way intentionally.

It may be stupid. But l don’t see anyone else coming up with a reason WHY. I am at least presenting a reason.

Furthermore, as you also stated, you do not spend current personal income, simply because the cost of a Premium Expansion is no longer worth it, especially for advanced cities. Why drop a huge chunk of change on a 5x5 hunk of land that has A LOT less impact than it would have on much less advanced city?

The answer to all this...play the game without spending money, and you will not be bitter. The game dynamics in Elvenar is not like other games where the big spenders trample on the non-spenders. That is why l like it.

Listen, l understand the frustration after spending a lot of money on a game, just to realize that the past few years, INNO has broken the game just to placate fans who wanted easy and free stuff.

The last few years....not just this past six months.

It’s a new world order....you can stay or go.
 

Hextapul IX

New Member
Simple business economics? Then what would you call doing something that angers the paying customers, those players that do buy diamonds? Sorry, but that is NOT a good business practice, simple or otherwise.

Sorry but good business practices trump simple business economics every time. If you want to keep your customer and keep them spending real money, you keep them happy! (or at least don't go out of your way to tick them off!
You are equating GOOD business practices with “Keep giving out tons of easy and free stuff,” which INNO has done over the past few years, thus breaking the ingame economic system so that players like me and many others, who have self control and patience DO NOT have to spend a dime.

I am sorry that you cannot understand the SIMPLE business economics of that.

At a certain point in the game, the cost of a Premium Expansion yields a diminished return. Items that were once only available through purchase are now readily available in game. Crafted Buildings that yield a higher rate of return than standard buildings, and have a smaller footprint, thus requiring less land, and thus require less Premium Expansion purchases.

The land available for a city is finite, yet INNO has bent over backwards to make it so people have little incentive to buy diamonds. The ingame system has been heading down this path for the past few years, and now that INNO is suddenly making it harder to complete quests, and introducing lotto style elements to cut down on massive building stockpiles, the welfare crowd starts grumbling.

Give me a reason WHY INNO is doing what they are doing. I am simply offering a possible reason, nothing more.

I am waiting...
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
The ingame system has been heading down this path for the past few years, and now that INNO is suddenly making it harder to complete quests, and introducing lotto style elements to cut down on massive building stockpiles, the welfare crowd starts grumbling.
The move to evolving buildings was probably not a good one, when trying to restrict potential. With set buildings, having one as an unobtainable (except through spending) grand prize would have been sufficient. Players who do not spend would then have the other pieces of the set. With evolving buildings it is more of an all or nothing, and many of them have been made weak because the team intends on keeping open the possibility of the free players getting them.
 

Hextapul IX

New Member
With evolving buildings it is more of an all or nothing, and many of them have been made weak because the team intends on keeping open the possibility of the free players getting them.
Actually, in my level 9 and level 7 cities, the Gingerbread House is a great value. It gives me a lot of Tier 2 goods, substantially more than the normal Tier 2 buildings or the mana sawmills/merchant. I was able to get 11 artifacts in each of those cities without spending a dime, and in my level 9 cities I have two houses at evolve 6 and 5. The only reason why l do not have both of them up in my level 7 is because that city is structured more for FQs.

When they are no longer useful, l will scrap them. And l have a whole inventory of other freely earned buildings, spells, boosts, etc. So again, why do l need to spend actual cash??

The freebies that l have gotten over the past few years in my level 9 city allow me to fund my 3 lesser cities too. I have 4 cities in a Fellowship, so all l do is take my excess goods, trade them to my smaller cities at a steep discount, which allows those cities to cater and buy off provinces WITHOUT spending actual cash to buy Premium Expansions for those cities.

And with 1500 hours of time boosts, 200-300 spells, and now more spell fragments than l will ever need, courtesy of the Spire in my inventory of both of those cities, why do l need to buy stuff from INNO?

Patience is a virtue. It doesn’t cost a penny.

Does everyone NOW understand why INNO is changing the dynamics?
 

Hextapul IX

New Member
I'm guessing not. Even those willing to go voluntarily go through your entire lecture series might understand what you think about why it's happening, but I'll be honest with you, I've got a fairly high tolerance for being lectured at online, and I couldn't scrape up the effort.
Yet you still read it...you obviously quoted me....and all l see are a bunch of players lecturing INNO ( a company that employs people, btw) but those players are too thin skinned to tolerate the same treatment when it is directed at themselves.
 
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Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Yet you still read it...you obviously quoted me....and all l see are a bunch of players lecturing INNO ( a company that employs people, btw) but those players are too thin skinned to tolerate the same treatment when it is directed at themselves.
And did you read what you quoted?

Yes I read it, and I even read parts of it a second time and still didn't find anything to support the conclusion that you alone know the truth of what Inno is up to. That was my point: Even with a high tolerance for lecturers, I gave up. You don't know why Inno is doing what they are doing. You might have an excellent hypothesis, but you don't get to treat a hypothesis as fact. (even if you did edit out that little tidbit). And it's a long time since I felt any angst over the claims of another poster. You have not risen to nearly that level in the two whole weeks you've been posting.

To your second point, like you, I also don't agree with the people who come on and whinge about changes and try to wheedle and cajole the developers about how "can't they see everyone is doing this"and "my whole FS is doing that in protest." I've repeatedly noted that Inno has won major business awards for the quality of their in game metrics, and if people are unhappy with a feature, then Inno probably knows it before anyone comes here to claim that players are leaving in droves or everyone's going to stop buying diamonds or they've broken the game and the world is about to end. Inno knows exactly how many people logged in today vs yesterday and how many diamonds they sold today vs yesterday and how many minutes the average player spent logged in yesterday. They don't need players to tell them what we think about what they are doing to their paying players. And players don't need other players coming here and claiming their pet theory about what Inno is doing is a fact.
 

The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
And yet l play for free because everything/nothing is/is not overpowered.
Hmmmm... Brown Bear, Fire Phoenix, Winter Village set, etc...
Storm Phoenix, Polar Bear...

Oh, and the new Spire set is game-breaking filth, since it outright destroys Scroll-boosted players ability to trade.
(hint INNO: please think of either reducing the amount of scrolls from the Library itself, OR, change it so that it gives Scrolls base + 1 other T2 good for link bonuses.)


BTW, I also play for free, but I've been around long enough to have lived through multiple rebalancings by INNO due to the devs realizing that certain things were massively out of whack. (*cough*AW & Pop/Culture building rebalancing*cough)

You have imbalances when elements like the event prizes are all over the place, such as the vast difference between say, Red Chocobo/Brown Bear/Polar Bears vs. the Mermaid/Gingerbread buildings. (Hell, even the putrid Panda is better than the Gingerbread, as it's also an additional source for MM spells and a 3x3 vs. 4x4!)
On the other hand, if everything is roughly equal in scale to things like the Fire Birdie, Brown+Polar Bears, Winter Market set, Carnival set, etc..., then the game stays more balanced as newer players will have the same oppertunities to chase down top tier event buildings.


As for the past few events themselves, they have earned a massive amount of hate due to;
1. The RNG-based "ranDUMB" quest system. ie: this is the outright worst way to do something like this, because RNG's are notorious for being finicky and prone to skewing results
Yes, players are going to rage when they get murdered by constant repetition of awful quests such as the hellish Scout -> VV -> Toolboxes -> Scout -> Buy Kp -> VV -> Buy KP -> Scout -> VV, etc... BS.

Also, the nature of the randumb quest system itself is hated by many, due to the simple fact that the quests in general are no longer rewarding event currency based on their difficulty...
For example, most players with at least a few brain cells to rub together, despise doing repeated Scouting/Research/VV for maybe 30 or so currencies, and then getting those exact same quests a week later offering perhaps 50-60+ currencies, or even worse as this event did, just 20 stinking currencies!

If the quests where instead sorted by difficulty and had set currency ranges, there would probably be far less open hostility towards the game devs & INNO in general.
(ie: *every* time you'd get a Scout/Research/VV quest it would be worth 50-60 currencies, while simply producing goods or supplies would always be worth say 20-30 currencies, etc...)

2. NO ONE, even in that other heretical game where it was ported over from, really enjoys the presents & reshuffle mechanic.
But! At least in that other game, it is mostly countered by the fact that solving 1 quest = opening 1 present. (unlike our version, which required 3-4 quests typically just to open 1 present)

3. The prizes in general don't reflect the effort required to acquire them.
Sure, you're not supposed to 'get rich' off of the consolation stuff, but there's a big difference between being able to generally avoid stuff you might not want, (ie: runeshards, coin rains & relics), vs. getting mostly nothing except gak like 1kp, 3 relics, EE spells, runeshards, pointless decos, etc...
 
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