The Saga of The Restoration Spell..

[Ashrem]

Is this because there are more fellowships that want to reach the 10 chests than there are players that really want that?

Absolutely. Human beings are wired to generally prefer being a big fish in a little pond to being a small fish in a big one. The middle ground of fellowships is almost certainly littered with archmages who'd rather fail at ten chests week after week after week than give up bing archmage to be something less in a group that scores ten week after week. There are also lots of people who'd love to, and could contribute to, getting 10 chests a week, but don't want to have to help 24 people 7 days a week (or whatever other conditions are placed on membership)

 

[DeletedUser20709]

I From my "beginner" perspective, Elvenar has something for everyone. It's all a matter of what that something is. Casual, competitive, super competitive? As long as one is satisfied with their game play, there is no right way, is there? And yeah, as one plays longer and longer, I'll bet their game play changes. As far as the 10 chests, I'm thinking that there are probably many players who lust after that, but once actually invested in doing it, they back off because they find they don't want that commitment.

I wholeheartedly agree with this perspective. I think that's the "lure" of these games to begin with. You can play 15 mins a week or 15 hrs a day...It doesn't have any affect on "your" game globally. There will always be someone newer than you and those who are the veterans.

It's funny, when you said that recruitment is painful it made me think that I'm already noticing a lot of players start a city, immediately join a fellowship, then decide they don't care for the game and just stop playing. When I look around in elvenstats, I see fellowships littered with beginner players who've moved on. It isn't hard to have some consideration for the FS and click the Leave option, is it? Am I being too idealistic?

As far as people leaving without quitting their FS, I think that's simply because they like the option of maybe returning at some point. We have 12 out of 22 players in our FS that are confirmed inactive, thru elvenstats (60 days or more) and we don't kick them out simply because their scores keep us ranked a little bit higher and we don't need the room, due to the "recruitment being hella hard" aspect of the game. This may be a bit of a generalization, but I think it applies fairly well.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Is this because there are more fellowships that want to reach the 10 chests than there are players that really want that?

I'm not sure howhyou mean this It's not so much that there aren't enough 10 chest players, the problem is that those players are spread out among too many of the wrong fellowships.
If you take the number of players who get 1600+ points and the number of fellowships who get 40,000+ it doesn't make sense at all.
Loads of 10 chest players are in 5 chest FS because that's where they started and/or their friends are there. Another reason is they want to grow a FS themselves rather than join an established one.

I once made the mistake of using elvenstats to find such players and attempt to recruit a couple. You should have seen the vile name calling and generally nasty responses you get from attempted poaching.

Look at yourself as an example: an invested player who is involved enough to use the forums and yet chooses to remain in a FS where over half the players have quit the game.
Players are loyal to a fault imo.

 

[DeletedUser19723]

I'm not sure howhyou mean this It's not so much that there aren't enough 10 chest players, the problem is that those players are spread out among too many of the wrong fellowships.
If you take the number of players who get 1600+ points and the number of fellowships who get 40,000+ it doesn't make sense at all.
Loads of 10 chest players are in 5 chest FS because that's where they started and/or their friends are there. Another reason is they want to grow a FS themselves rather than join an established one.

I once made the mistake of using elvenstats to find such players and attempt to recruit a couple. You should have seen the vile name calling and generally nasty responses you get from attempted poaching.

Look at yourself as an example: an invested player who is involved enough to use the forums and yet chooses to remain in a FS where over half the players have quit the game.
Players are loyal to a fault imo.

To start at the top - I can see those players staying where they are for those reasons. I don't know the numbers, but I suspect many players like the social part of the game. If they have "chat buddies" they don't want to lose and that's of a higher priority to them, they'll stay and not worry overly about the 10 chest could have been.

I'm familiar with FS poaching. Not well received. To go forward and back up - I am not in that FS any longer. Things were going down the tube rapidly. When we did the last FA, it was 5 of us. Who knows where the rest of the FS was, certainly not participating in anything. We were two stops short of the grand prize. We did well but it was grueling. Anyway, one of the active members tried to do a combined FS of the active players in ours and in another. It went over like a lead balloon. The AM went AWOL, never to be heard from again. I tried, really. I finally left. I felt badly because I'm not a quitter. I'm in an active FS now. It's not a FS that is driven in tournaments, but it's a good fit for me. My boosts are the three that they needed most, so I can trade till the cows come home. That has been very helpful.

IDK, Soggy, don't you think it is the nature of online multiplayer games to cultivate loyalty?

 

[DeletedUser12171]

Elvenar has something for everyone. It's all a matter of what that something is. Casual, competitive, super competitive? As long as one is satisfied with their game play, there is no right way, is there?

This is exactly my point. I've been called smug and intolerant for it and that's fine lol

I consider Tournaments to be a Core+ feature. Meaning it's optional but integral to the game. There are even AWs relating to Tournament cooldown now. Tournaments are stated in the in-game banner itself to be one benefit of joining an FS. In fact, it is the only feature that is opened exclusively by being in an FS, the other functions e.g. trading, messaging (mail), all available to independent players, albeit with some limitations

Tournaments give plenty of rewards, such as KP, spells, runes, and the ultimate being a Blueprint for hitting 10 chest. That is THE motivation for getting 10 - to get that Blueprint and use it to upgrade super-powered Magic buildings for free once you've bought the first one. Adding RRs to the later chests - you can see it in two ways: a) FS who don't hit the higher chests are penalized b) FS who hit the higher chests are rewarded. The second though, resonates with me more. Being penalized is when something is taken from you. RRs are a new thing, it was never there before. Nobody has RR taken from them, but they are now a REWARD for those who get more involved, do more. Will it turn away some more casual players? Perhaps. But then again, so can anything else in this game that requires more effort than a player, any player, is willing to put in. You can take it another way and say the Devs are doing the casual players in - fine, you're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

IMO the problem with some players is that they want more, but are unwilling to make changes or even explore making changes to their gameplay for it. Just some simple examples: building boosted only, getting rid of outdated event buildings, planning an efficient road layout etc etc etc. And yes, play in the Tournament. I caught up 14 Chapters in 18 months by getting 150 - 200 KP extra a week from tournament from the time I started to do 10 chests.

Like I said, for players like me, adding more RRs will simply give us an even bigger reward than what is currently being offered. I don't mind getting 20 RRs a week on top of the Blueprint, which I will not convert because I use them for Magic buildings. I have nearly 150 sqaures of event buildings I want to upgrade, I sure wouldn't mind being able to do it faster. But that goes against my belief that the system is accessible enough to those who would put in a reasonable amount of effort to be involved, so I'm not for it.

10 chests is not for everyone. Same as being in a competitive FS is not for everyone. Maybe RR is not for everyone too, but those who want it will get it. If all you're after is the Super-Power of Event buildings, but are not willing to make effort to get that RR, perhaps it'll be best to simply win new buildings in each event. We have at least 3 major ones every year anyway, plenty of chances to get some. I'm guessing that these casual players probably won't pass through more than a couple or more chapters between events either, so their buildings can last comfortably till the next event. If you simply care for the look of the building - well then not upgrading it won't matter, will it? Want the cake and eat it too? Gotta put in some leg work for it then!

 

[DeletedUser19723]

As far as people leaving without quitting their FS, I think that's simply because they like the option of maybe returning at some point. We have 12 out of 22 players in our FS that are confirmed inactive, thru elvenstats (60 days or more) and we don't kick them out simply because their scores keep us ranked a little bit higher and we don't need the room, due to the "recruitment being hella hard" aspect of the game. This may be a bit of a generalization, but I think it applies fairly well.

I don't disagree with you. I think, though, that courtesy is rather important when working (or playing) in a group. A player who is not playing, but will be back, so to say, could certainly message their AM to let them know. In fact, many fellowships have this as a requirement. But there are also the players that have started the game and quit because they decided it wasn't their thing. Example, you have a very new player that joins your FS. Their score is 410. Three weeks later their score is still 410. They don't participate in anything, not even visits. 410 is Chapter 1 with a few buildings and not much else. Will they be back? Probably not.

BTW, glad to see you on the forum. I am enjoying reading your comments.

 

[DeletedUser20709]

First off, Thank You for the welcome and compliment. I enjoy being here and really enjoy the comments made by the veterans like yourself.

I also agree with the whole "courtesy" thing, but that is something that is more dependent on a persons' upbringing. You were either taught it at an early age or you weren't. Sadly, the world is always changing, sometimes not always for the better.
Hope to see you around @SherG26.

 

[Ashrem]

This is exactly my point. I've been called smug and intolerant for it and that's fine

If you're going to bring it up, I'm going to bring it up. It had nothing to do with saying there's something for everyone. It was the suggesting that rather than ask for the things people think would make the game better, they should play the game they've got or go to a different one.

This game asks for suggestions from players. Theoretically, that means they want suggestions from players. You've made more than one yourself. I'm all in favour of people saying why they think a suggestion is good or bad. We don't need to be told not to ask for changes.

And to be clear, the statement was smug and intolerant. I don;t think that you are generally so. It was an unfortunate choice of statements. We all do that now and then. Ask Soggy about my opinions on bullying.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

We have 12 out of 22 players in our FS that are confirmed inactive, thru elvenstats (60 days or more) and we don't kick them out simply because their scores keep us ranked a little bit higher and we don't need the room, due to the "recruitment being hella hard" aspect of the game.

At the same time, keeping them could hurt your ability to recruit just as much as a lower fellowship score. If I was a player seeking a fellowship (and knew enough to look on elvenstats), I would stay away from a fellowship with that many inactive players. It also means that fellowship is ripe for poaching. While I wouldn't directly contact players in that fellowship out of the blue, there are others who would. And while I refuse to actively poach, if a player from an inactive fellowship contacted me to join my own fellowship, I'd certainly ask if they had any active friends they'd want to bring along, knowing full well that might leave their fellowship without any tourney players at all.

I don't say this to be mean. I certainly don't have those intentions. But recruiting is hard and most would view a fellowship with that many inactive players as a sinking ship and we feel less bad about throwing a life preserver to those who might be thinking of leaving anyway. (The thought being that if the fellowship dies anyway, any remaining active players might get snatched up elsewhere.)

 

[DeletedUser20951]

At the same time, keeping them could hurt your ability to recruit just as much as a lower fellowship score. If I was a player seeking a fellowship (and knew enough to look on elvenstats), I would stay away from a fellowship with that many inactive players. It also means that fellowship is ripe for poaching. While I wouldn't directly contact players in that fellowship out of the blue, there are others who would. And while I refuse actively poach, if a player from an inactive fellowship contacted me to join my own fellowship, I'd certainly ask if they had any active friends they'd want to bring along, knowing full well that might leave their fellowship without any tourney players at all.

I don't say this to be mean. I certainly don't have those intentions. But recruiting is hard and most would view a fellowship with that many inactive players as a sinking ship and we feel less bad about throwing a life preserver to those who might be thinking of leaving anyway. (The thought being that if the fellowship dies anyway, any remaining active players might get snatched up elsewhere.)

Inactive dead weight is a MASSIVE pet peeve of mine. CAST THEM INTO THE FELLOWSHIPLESS ABYSS WHERE THEY BELONG. *bows head* Amen.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@SherG26 sorry I got you and @Itireae Sharic mixed up there. Glad to hear you are in an active FS now.

As for MMOs cultivating loyalty, I absolutely agree, and I have only changed guilds once on average and almost always very early-even for games that I played for over a decade. Where it hurts in Elvenar is that far too many players start out in the wrong FS for them. Elvenar offers pretty much zero matchmaking functionality making it too easy to end up in a group that doesn't play on your level and never will. Add to that the fact that you probably don't know your own level of dedication when you start out (and that it may change), and you end up with pretty rare perfect fits from the outset.
Better MMOs have things like training guilds where the focus is on leveling up through the first few stages and learning how to play. After you get a good grasp of the game you are pretty much expected to move on to a "real" guild and continue playing with those at your activity level.
Also some sort of barrier to creating a FS is in place for almost all other games, and for good reason- you can't have any fellows if everyone is an Archmage.
In Elvenar unless you are antisocial or unlucky you're bound to meet a few nice players in the first FS that you join, and then you have to make a tough call.

Personally, I totally circumvented the issue by having my own FS so I can choose every single player I play with
Note: I would not recommend that anyone start their own FS unless you are certain that "casual" is the top level of play you want to reach. Trying to pull or create 24 "active" or "very active" players takes forever.

 

[DeletedUser20709]

I most heartedly agree with you and @Risen Malchiah, @SoggyShorts. As for keeping the dead weight in my current guild, I discussed it with the AM, pointed out the reason(s) for cutting them loose, dead weight, etc, etc...and it was her position that she wasn't comfortable kicking someone without "knowing" for a fact they had quit. The first thing I did after becoming a Mage was to send out a FS wide message trying to get responses from those still playing, so we could thin the heard. This was prior to me knowing about Elvenstats and not being aware of the mobile players inability to respond. All this did was confirm that we had 8 - 10 people who were actually playing, casual or otherwise. We have added 2 people since and 1 has already quit.
As for the "Loyalty" question, I'm all in. This is my 3rd MMO type game. The first I played well over 3 years, I was in 2 guilds. The 2nd I played about 18 months, FOE, and I was in 3, but the 2nd was the top guild's training guild and the 3rd was the top guild. As for this game, I based the guild I joined on the first name I saw that I liked. I knew the advantages of being in a guild, but that's all I knew. I hope to find one more guild to join for the duration of my game play here.
Great information as usual guys. Thanks.

 

[StarLoad]

@Itireae Sharic, tell your AM that if the members didn't have the courage/dignity/honor to tell you they were quitting the game, then they surely wont be back to tell or confirm this.

Edward

 

[DeletedUser20709]

I moved on to a top 40 guild this morning @Ed1960. Thanks for looking out.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

I moved on to a top 40 guild this morning @Ed1960. Thanks for looking out.

Good for you. You are clearly active (and keep well-informed through the forum). You deserve to be in a fellowship of more active players. I know it's hard to part with players you've grown accustomed to, but overall, your game experience will improve and you will no doubt feel the new fellowship to be like a breath of fresh air.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

i think the exchange rate's a bit high but i'm a keep the bp and use the rr kind of player so that isn't a probs for myself.. so i'll stack the rr up for awhile and use them as i progress, i'm more of a numbers guy so first i looked for fellowships that would do 10 chests, then see if it's a fit personality -wise, relaxed non poachers that get 10 chests are out there, i have emails to talk to friends i want the goodies when i play a game
p.s. elvenstats posts inactives at 2 weeks if a 3rd week comes and goes without communication or score change it's cut em from the herd time and move on, with communication i'll make every allowance possible and keep them .. but ghosting players get cut, if i look at a fellowship that has a good rank but half are inactive i think defect not great score

 

[DeletedUser20709]

This is exactly why this planet is screwed. Multiple people, with multiple opinions.....arguing among themselves, about an issue that THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER!!!!
You people spend so much energy arguing amongst yourselves, over something that YOU can't change. The game is the game...It is what it is.

Wouldn't that energy be better spent hugging your kids, making love with your spouse, or just sitting down and watching a sunset.
Arguing over things that you can't change goes against who we are.

Man up so to speak. Use your mouth for something better than a vocal device. If you truly believe you are right....PREACH IT AND MAKE IT SO.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

This is exactly why this planet is screwed. Multiple people, with multiple opinions.....arguing among themselves, about an issue that THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER!!!!

Did I miss something? Is this in response to comments that got deleted? Everything before this seemed like normal discussion to me with a lot of people agreeing and liking stuff.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

Did I miss something? Is this in response to comments that got deleted? Everything before this seemed like normal discussion to me with a lot of people agreeing and liking stuff.

I was quite honestly puzzled, as well, and asked about it and other posts that were of a similar vein in a different thread. The response was hostile there... and then I got called a "pr*ck" in a PM. *cackles*

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

i thought it was funny too as all the suggestions we've made have been applied for rr spells .. so beat the kids and have an affair and throw plastic in the ocean ha i'm still going to like the comment as it's my policy to like all comments in threads i start but i wont really mean it