Gripe and Bemoan the Horrors of (BAD) Cross-tier (ALWAYS)

[DeletedUser23460]

I know. I was just wondering if my trades are considered fair or not, because I trusted the 3-stars from the trader. Reading this topic I am insecure. Sorry for crashing in.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

Would you consider that fair or not?

Definitely fair! The rating for trading same tier goods is accurate, but not for cross-tier. I offer equal trades, myself, such as two hundred for two hundred, but posting as you do does make it more beneficial for the accepter, while boosting your chances of having your trades taken, since they are placed at the top of the Trader.

Sorry for crashing in.

No apology necessary! I like hearing from everybody, and I can certainly see how this thread could be quite confusing. I'm amazed and impressed that you read all of it... Honestly, I'm not sure I would be able read it all if I was encountering it as is for the first time (I can barely muster the urge to read back a few posts to refocus on any thread topic). XD

 

[SunsetDanar]

I voted for the desperate simply because I did it...ONCE! I absolutely hate them but some benevolent posters make them worthwhile and others try to take advantage. I remember a similar thread from some time ago as to whether or not they should even be allowed. Under current constraints, I'd say no but what if you'd get special considerations for accepting a cross tier trade? At this point I'm not sure what they might be but I'm really used up with looking for something in the trader that's overloaded with cross tier trades.

 

[NightshadeCS]

@Lematique and @SunsetDanar (forgive me if I am assuming your need for these answers, but someone else may need extra clarification)
Cross-tier trades are when you trade between the tiers.
Tier 1 goods are: Planks, Marble, Steel
Tier 2 goods are Scrolls, Crystal, Silk
Tier 3 goods are Magic Dust, Elixir, Gems

Regular trades are trading planks for steel, or silk for scrolls. Anything asking for something in its same tier.

Cross tier trades are trading something from 1 for 2, or 3 for 1, or 3 for 2, or whichever combination you can think of that goes between the different tiers instead of within them.

The main complaint of cross-tier trades in this thread is trading tier 3 downwards, for tier 2 or even straight to tier 1.

 

[mucksterme]

So, I'm about fed up.
Yes I'm not a fan of cross trades as a rule.
If I do them I make them more than fair by anyone's metrics.
Mostly I've been able to ignore the majority of them by limiting the trader to FS only.
But the last few days there's been an fs member who posts 3 pages of trades like 1000 crystal for 3000 planks.
Now I know he probably thinks he's making legitimate 3 star trades.
But here's my problems with this.

1 One of the reasons I chose this current FS is that they say on their page "Cross tier are ok at need but not as a rule
2 instead of this clown doing thirty 1000:3000 trades. how about three 10000:30000? or five 6000:18000
(i may have messed up the math but you get the point)
3 this person has over a 200K score. I looked at his city and couldn't see any T1 factories. So basically this person can't be bothered to produce T1 and figures the rest of us can take up the slack for him.

So what I'm saying is.
If something doesn't change.
Cross tier trading might be what makes me give up the game.

 

[DeletedUser20951]

1 One of the reasons I chose this current FS is that they say on their page "Cross tier are ok at need but not as a rule
2 instead of this clown doing thirty 1000:3000 trades. how about three 10000:30000? or five 6000:18000
(i may have messed up the math but you get the point)
3 this person has over a 200K score. I looked at his city and couldn't see any T1 factories. So basically this person can't be bothered to produce T1 and figures the rest of us can take up the slack for him.

*reads through slowly with growing horror* Ah geeze, two hundred thousand plus score and pulling this crap? I don't see how anybody could play that much and not know better. I'm annoyed by my neighbors' cross trades, to be sure, but I always held fellows to higher standards and I'd be enraged. No chance of the rules being enforced? That's gotta be a violation... If not, it should be.

 

[shimmerfly]

I'm also seeing more and more Ct's. If they would just do one or two it wouldn't be so hard to ignore. And I agree with @mucksterme( For maybe the second time in 2 + years..)
Do a few big trades not 14 pages of small ones. Why oh Why do that??

 

[Arayla]

2 instead of this clown doing thirty 1000:3000 trades. how about three 10000:30000? or five 6000:18000

I play with someone like this on Beta. He has no T1s at all. His score is 400k.

Posting cross-tiers in quantity increases the number that get clicked on accidentally since the smaller amounts will not be disabled in the trader of smaller cities.

The majority of his trades expire every week. Drives me insane when someone else in chat asks for help with trades and I'm in a hurry and take one of those cross tiers on accident.

 

[DeletedUser20255]

2 instead of this clown doing thirty 1000:3000 trades. how about three 10000:30000? or five 6000:18000

Do you have the same problem with multiple small trades in-tier? I ask because I'm trying to get a handle on your specific objection. Many people post multiple small trades because they think (rightly) they have a better chance of being picked up by the smaller players. Yes, i know large trades show up at the top and therefore are noticed more by big players. That's why I do both.
If you only have a problem with it CT then its just part of the same gripe. ( I'll grant you it aggravates the problem)
As far as advanced players "must know better" I'm unconvinced. It get's down to communications. I have 20 members in my FS and only about 5 of them chat or message. I have no idea if they read the forums, fb, wiki, or even the rules of the FS. They might be trying to take advantage. They might not know, or might disagree that the star-rating is off. Never under-estimate the power of ignorance.
Some players like to be a loner. They never join an FS. Some do but chafe at the rules and look for one (like mine) with no rules. I had a person in fb who said "don't try and get me to chat. I'm here to play not to make friends". Communication is still the biggest word I know.

 

[Sir Squirrel]

So, I'm about fed up.
Yes I'm not a fan of cross trades as a rule.
If I do them I make them more than fair by anyone's metrics.
Mostly I've been able to ignore the majority of them by limiting the trader to FS only.
But the last few days there's been an fs member who posts 3 pages of trades like 1000 crystal for 3000 planks.
Now I know he probably thinks he's making legitimate 3 star trades.
But here's my problems with this.

1 One of the reasons I chose this current FS is that they say on their page "Cross tier are ok at need but not as a rule
2 instead of this clown doing thirty 1000:3000 trades. how about three 10000:30000? or five 6000:18000
(i may have messed up the math but you get the point)
3 this person has over a 200K score. I looked at his city and couldn't see any T1 factories. So basically this person can't be bothered to produce T1 and figures the rest of us can take up the slack for him.

So what I'm saying is.
If something doesn't change.
Cross tier trading might be what makes me give up the game.

I have no rules on cross tier trades, but I as an arch mage would not let this go unchecked!! They would be asked to either build their tier one boosts and help with proper trades or find another FS to be in. This is exactly the kind of selfishness that is ruining the game for everyone!

 

[DeletedUser20951]

This is exactly the kind of selfishness that is ruining the game for everyone!

Amen!

And, @Count Mein, as to the justification of ignorance, that's a reason not an excuse. If people don't want to learn how to be good fellows, nor have any concern for their mates, I reinstate that they don't deserve to be in fellowships... Or at least not in decent ones. Most, even the very antisocial, will be taught by a frequent boot to correct their detrimental behavior towards group play or suffer/tolerate the consequences of being alone. Societal conditioning is a powerful thing.

 

[DeletedUser20255]

Amen!

And, @Count Mein, as to the justification of ignorance, that's a reason not an excuse. If people don't want to learn how to be good fellows, nor have any concern for their mates, I reinstate that they don't deserve to be in fellowships... Or at least not in decent ones. Most, even the very antisocial, will be taught by a frequent boot to correct their detrimental behavior towards group play or suffer/tolerate the consequences of being alone. Societal conditioning is a powerful thing.

I disagree. The reason is the excuse. This is a game. Players will not be bound by your ideas of what is good play. They will play for fun. If they are incentivized by the need to rise in the ranks then logic dictates they will attempt to discover the secrets of such. Not all are. For many it is something to fill in an hour or so between their favorite TV shows. You are trying to tell people who play the game for fun that they have to educate themselves. I fear you are doomed to heartache.

 

[Sir Squirrel]

I have been arch mage of my FS for almost 4 years now. I find that most new members want to be a contributing member of the FS and will follow direction if the other members there are doing the same. Most want to fit in and most want their trades took quickly. So letting them know that trades posted in the same tier help out other FS members and will be taken quicker then cross tier trades usually is enough to get them to not post cross tier very often. I have not had very many members that wont listen to helpful advice if given in a respectful manner and with their best interest at heart.

 

[DeletedUser23078]

In the FS of my main city I never had problems with doing or accepting cross tier trades (if they're fair, of course, not stupid like some examples here).
But now that I started other cities I found people of other FSs who don't want to have nothing to do with this kind of trades, even if one of their fellows says to be really in need (it really happened). Of course I have to respect their choice, but I can't agree with them.
I agree in don't liking players who always post a little amount of T3 to have a huge quantity of goods from the lower levels, expecially from T1; but the rule of not making cross-tier trades isn't written anywhere, so I can't accept the idiosyncrasy I sometimes see for every kind of cross-tier trades.
For example what about these examples that are not cross trades:

I see tons of these daily and I'm really pissed of by these kind of trades. When I see these I rather use the wholetrader.

 

[samidodamage]

@Dandini
Those trades are not 'unfair' because of what the player posted. If you hover over the exclamation point in the yellow circle it will show you what the player is asking for and the amount added to that as the 'Trader Fee'. That fee is assessed when you see trades from neighbors you haven't discovered. Once you discover them, the fee will go away and the trade will be what the player posted. You're small, so you see lots of 'undiscovered' trades now. That will decrease significantly as you grow.

 

[mucksterme]

Do you have the same problem with multiple small trades in-tier?

A couple things.
First, this is about cross trades and the multiple postings just added to that. I found it worse than if it had been three pages of varied CTs.
Second, I've certainly seen players post multiple small regular trades. But I've never seen three pages of the same trade.
Also the people who post those are generally smaller players who need the help. Not large players deciding to take advantage of people who still have those annoying T1 factories.
And don't forget the point that this happened in an FS that claims to discourage CT. Making it impossible to ignore the posts by limiting the display to FS only.

I hope I was clearer this time.
I really don't want to keep repeating myself to someone who doesn't like hearing "the same gripe" in a thread dedicated to that gripe.

 

[DeletedUser23078]

@Dandini
Those trades are not 'unfair' because of what the player posted. If you hover over the exclamation point in the yellow circle it will show you what the player is asking for and the amount added to that as the 'Trader Fee'. That fee is assessed when you see trades from neighbors you haven't discovered. Once you discover them, the fee will go away and the trade will be what the player posted. You're small, so you see lots of 'undiscovered' trades now. That will decrease significantly as you grow.

Aww thanks @samidodamage ! I have to say that your explanation reconciled me to the players world. I didn't know it.

 

[DeletedUser20255]

A couple things.
First, this is about cross trades and the multiple postings just added to that. I found it worse than if it had been three pages of varied CTs.
Second, I've certainly seen players post multiple small regular trades. But I've never seen three pages of the same trade.
Also the people who post those are generally smaller players who need the help. Not large players deciding to take advantage of people who still have those annoying T1 factories.
And don't forget the point that this happened in an FS that claims to discourage CT. Making it impossible to ignore the posts by limiting the display to FS only.

I hope I was clearer this time.
I really don't want to keep repeating myself to someone who doesn't like hearing "the same gripe" in a thread dedicated to that gripe.

Thanks for clarifying that multiple trades adds to the gripe. I wanted clarification because you seemed to have a problem with multiple trades. If someone wants 10K of something and they want to make the trades in 1K bites they have no choice but to post 1K 10 times. I agree 3 pages of the same trade is unusual. People who post these trades are either small players who need the help or large players who want to make them available to small players. Why do you assume it is taking advantage?
This whole thread is about discouraging CT. I used the word "gripe" because it is in the topic title. The larger point I was making is about how exactly you do that. Sure you can expel the member but that doesn't stop the practice.
Feel free to not keep repeating yourself, or not.

 

[mucksterme]

People who post these trades are either small players who need the help or large players who want to make them available to small players. Why do you assume it is taking advantage?
.

3 this person has over a 200K score. I looked at his city and couldn't see any T1 factories. So basically this person can't be bothered to produce T1 and figures the rest of us can take up the slack for him.

RIF

 

[DeletedUser20255]

RIF

I had to google RIF. I got reduction in force or reading is fundamental. I'll assume the latter unless it is a typo for a premature RIP.

I guess you think you made a point by this one person being a big player and having no T1 factories. You didn't. Firstly, I was talking about people who make multiple trades in general, not this one player. Secondly, even big players may want to reach small players and thus offer small trades. It's not taking advantage. It's being considerate.

RIF right back atcha.