Balance the Battle!

[DeletedUser61]

Pay the piper? For playing the game?

You need to review the Pied Piper of Hamlin. https://www.wattpad.com/81958501-the-original-grimm-brother-fairy-tales-the-pied
Actions have consequences. Just because you didn't see them coming, doesn't make them any less consequential.

You've very nearly worn out the stage flouncing around being outraged about one thing and another.

 

[DeletedUser2522]

I am pretty sure what Kat meant by 'our concerns' was that it was Inno as well as players that can look ahead at what they are trying to do. It is not any kind of 'aha you work for Inno' moment.

OH, I see. The players that can look ahead! You mean the both of you, right?

And sorry but nobody talks like that "our concerns" & "provide us." Well, unless there are several people living inside of the one brain!

 

[DeletedUser4417]

...

No, that meant ~any~ player that takes a moment to listen and read what Inno puts out and takes a moment to think rather than simply, blindly, fearfully and irrationally react.

Actually a great many people do indeed talk like that. The English language is a wonderful thing indeed. I am sure you think some things make sense but you will find that your assumption is wrong. But I leave that error for you to discover in due course.

In any event the battle system at lower chapters does need tweaking to make it more balanced and fair for starting players.

 

[DeletedUser43]

I'd like to see a link to a post where Inno said that the new system would make battles easier to win. Strong words call for a backup.

We understand your concern, but this will have a positive effect on fighting in general. Yes, you will have to change your fighting style, but overall, fighting will become easier.

Now, do you want to continue your misconception of the past or update it?

We were told the battles would get easier.

they will be slightly devalued

We were NOT told the strength of our troops would be cut in half. So your "correcting" a player for saying something accurate was foolhardy and haughty.

However when I see a person, any person, put out something that I know to be false by the current game metric I will address it as it my and any other posters right to do so.

It is bad enough to come into someone's thread and "correct" them even if you are correct. It isn't your place. But to come into someone's thread and "correct" them when you are dead wrong....

 

[DeletedUser4417]

We were told the battles would get easier.

Context is a wonderful thing Bobby. Did you pay any attention to that little word that Goryn used? Overall.. and overall it has. Only problem is most of what has been seen here is people that have 'over-conquered' and those are the ones that are having difficulties. For the average player that is not over and out of the first few chapters that battles are easier as they can employ advanced tactics.

We were NOT told the strength of our troops would be cut in half. So your "correcting" a player for saying something accurate was foolhardy and haughty.

In a very specific way each player WAS told their troop strength was going to be cut. I draw your attention to this thread where it specifically mentions that squad strength would now be using the new algorithm of 6+ squad #x3 rather than squad size +12 as was previous. It was not fully explained but any person could have read that and done the simple math required and figured out that squads would be cut at first for a portion of players. Most notably those that were in chapters I through III.

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/release-notes-version-1-15.4194/

Specifically this part right here under balancing changes: "Squad Size Increase technologies now give 3x their number of increase to your maximum squad size, rather than the fixed +12 that they would give until now."

It is bad enough to come into someone's thread and "correct" them even if you are correct. It isn't your place. But to come into someone's thread and "correct" them when you are dead wrong....

Excuse you? Not my place? Sorry but you don't get to tell someone, anyone they cannot come into any open thread and not post a response. As one Mod put it "you don't get to tell anyone that." As referenced and shown above, I did not lie nor was I wrong.

 

[DeletedUser2522]

Actually a great many people do indeed talk like that. The English language is a wonderful thing indeed. I am sure you think some things make sense but you will find that your assumption is wrong. But I leave that error for you to discover in due course.

Oh right. So sorry, my error.
It does indeed make complete sense and this is a complete farce, no need to continue.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Context is a wonderful thing Bobby. Did you pay any attention to that little word that Goryn used? Overall.. and overall it has. Only problem is most of what has been seen here is people that have 'over-conquered' and those are the ones that are having difficulties. For the average player that is not over and out of the first few chapters that battles are easier as they can employ advanced tactics.

Show me the evidence. You say the battles are easier for the average player. Show me the evidence.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

Show me the evidence. You say the battles are easier for the average player. Show me the evidence.

The evidence is all over the forums. Look at who is complaining. The ones complaining are those that are in the first two chapters and those that are advanced and have over-scouted and over-conquered. You don't see the person coming in and saying "I am not outside of where they say I should be, and cannot win battles."

 

[DeletedUser43]

You don't see the person coming in and saying "I am not outside of where they say I should be, and cannot win battles."

Now you are just flat out lying or you haven't read the forums.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Bobbykitty @Lionsmane
How have you two not already said everything you have to say to each other on this subject? Seriously, just click that ignore button

 

[DeletedUser4417]

Now you are just flat out lying or you haven't read the forums.

Bobby, this is boring. You come in here, claim someone is lying and it is rather easily shown they are not. You repeat the claim and it is again shown you make specious claims.

We've seen the young beginning players come in and complain about battles being unwinnable and we have seen the advanced 'over-conquering' players complain about it. Do you really think it logical that we don't similarly see the voices of the 'average player' that are not 'over-conquering?'

@Bobbykitty @Lionsmane
How have you two not already said everything you have to say to each other on this subject? Seriously, just click that ignore button

Obviously not. What real purpose does it serve to ignore another? Personally I just view it as childish but that is an opinion. If you can't handle what a person says on a certain subject, ignore it and walk away.

At any rate. Driving topic back on track.

Chapter I and II battle balance needs looking into as Cordelia pointed out. Sorry to see her go.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Do you really think it logical that we don't similarly see the voices of the 'average player' that are not 'over-conquering?'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance



https://www.facebook.com/elvenar/ Live thread at 7:32 am on October 28.

I, and the overwhelming majority of people responding to that live feed, agree with @CordeliaAnansi. The battles need to be adjusted.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence

Battles do need to be adjusted, for chapters I and II. For those that have over conquered? No

 

[SoggyShorts]

What real purpose does it serve to ignore another?

I was just wondering what purpose it serves to have the same argument over and over again.

Lionsmane: you scouted too far.
Bobbykitty: ********, they never told us, stop blaming players

LM: This will be better in the long run
BK: what about advanced players? We do nothing for 6 months?

BK: fights are hard for most players, too hard in fact.
LM: players with the correct number of provinces are fine.

At least a dozen versions of those 3 conversations in a handful of threads. You can tell you are both getting tired of it when you stop arguing the points and start criticizing the way that the other person is arguing. Using wikipedia links to point out argument fallacies? I don't think either of you is going to convince the other at this point.

EDIT: I should point out that in my opinion all 6 of the above statements are correct. Which of them is the most valid? That I can't say.

 

[DeletedUser2522]

The evidence is all over the forums. Look at who is complaining. The ones complaining are those that are in the first two chapters and those that are advanced and have over-scouted and over-conquered. You don't see the person coming in and saying "I am not outside of where they say I should be, and cannot win battles."

BECAUSE THEY ARE DISGUSTED AND HAVE GIVEN UP, they don't bother to come here and listen to your frustrating BS!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?
I CAN PROVIDE ANOTHER 24 PLAYERS THAT HAVE NOT PASSED WHERE THEY SHOULD BE AND CAN'T WIN A BATTLE.
AND AT EVERY SINGLE LEVEL.

 

[DeletedUser4417]

@SoggyShorts
There is an axiom that the Nazis used to put forth. It was coined by the chief propagandist of the Nazi regime at the time Joseph Goebbels:

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

I refuse to let the lie be perpetuated and spread. Removing opposition to that lie, does just that. I will do that to the best of my ability. Yes, the argument gets repetitive and stale at times. But you are correct Soggy, we are undoubtedly not going to change each others positions on this.

The battle system for chapters I and II needs looking at and rebalancing to make it more fair for beginning level players such as CordeliaAnanasi and others that I have spoken to. Battle should not be that difficult or next to impossible at that early a level.

I CAN PROVIDE ANOTHER 24 PLAYERS THAT HAVE NOT PASSED WHERE THEY SHOULD BE AND CAN'T WIN A BATTLE.
AND AT EVERY SINGLE LEVEL.

Then please have them do so. Each voice on this subject is valuable and needed if Inno is to make the changes that are needed.

 

[SoggyShorts]

BECAUSE THEY ARE DISGUSTED AND HAVE GIVEN UP, they don't bother to come here and listen to your frustrating BS!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?
I CAN PROVIDE ANOTHER 24 PLAYERS THAT HAVE NOT PASSED WHERE THEY SHOULD BE AND CAN'T WIN A BATTLE.
AND AT EVERY SINGLE LEVEL.

The way to get the battle system "fixed" is to tell those players to post specific examples of what they are facing with all the details that the devs asked for. Inno might not be willing to overhaul the system again, but they aren't beyond tweaks, and the more specific examples they have especially from players in the "acceptable" range of provinces the better.
"Fights are too hard, change them" will not accomplish anything.

 

[DeletedUser43]

The way to get the battle system "fixed" is to tell those players to post specific examples of what they are facing with all the details that the devs asked for. Inno might not be willing to overhaul the system again, but they aren't beyond tweaks, and the more specific examples they have especially from players in the "acceptable" range of provinces the better.
"Fights are too hard, change them" will not accomplish anything.

Actually, yes, it does accomplish a lot. Inno and the other company that they just sold to, are trying to make money off of this game. If they want to make money, then they better figure out how to make those complaints stop. Complaints are the tip of the iceberg. For every customer who bothers to complain, 26 other customers remain silent. https://www.helpscout.net/75-customer-service-facts-quotes-statistics/. That means that a whole ton of people are very unhappy. Go look at the facebook page if you want to see how many complaints there are. If this company wants to make more money and keep more customers they will adjust the battle system and make the battles easier. Or they won't. But who loses if they don't make the change? My paycheck isn't going to be affected. Theirs will.

 

[DeletedUser4902]

Starting to get a little tense and personal in this thread it seems? Here is my POV, the battle system as it stands is virtually impossible to win or you can win taking huge losses if you're lucky. If I expanded too fast, that is the fault of the developers, they screwed up. They made some chapters of the game take a hell of a long time to get through, so I spent my collected coins on scouting, as I had to spend it somewhere, so they screwed up again. Prior to the battle update I could win most battles with just Granite Golems and Sorceress's, admittedly with losses, now I barely win a battle with just two opposing squads, devs screwed up again. I am 2/3 of the way through the Orc tree and will prolly need another month or so to get through it as the time taken to produce mushrooms is ridiculous , another screw up. I can't expand my land mass any further through conquering provinces so cannot build more mushroom farms to get through any quicker. So what am I supposed to do for the next month??? I'll scout provinces but refrain from battle and build up my troops at the same time. What else can I do? I can't negotiate as the devs control who appears in my trader pages, I have 253 provinces discovered and only six players trading right now, and that includes another 20 or so from my fellowship so somebody or some sub routine is controlling it !! another screw up. The battle system is flawed and as previously stated players are leaving, altering the stats of opposing armies isn't that difficult for the developers to do, if they don't do something pretty quick, this game will hit the cemetery.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

I'm sooooooo tired of the 'overscouting' argument.
Prior to the addition of the orc-chapter there has been not a single hint from the dev team that this was a problem. If it was a problem, they could very easily have solved it in an elegant way by means of a simple update (preferably with prior notice about this problem) by making the fights harder than they already were if you went 'too far out' and linking the number of rings that were deemed 'too far' to the chapter a player is in and increasing the difficulty of the fights in a bit more agressive way.
They already clamped down on players all of a sudden by introducing the need for orcs to negotiate. ( A ridiculous idea in itself, ever heard of orcs being needed for negotiations? orcs aren't good at that). It meant all of a sudden a good many players were ALMOST stuck, but at least they had a choice and a chance in battling through.
Now I can scout, but I cannot fight. Since in my main world I'm in the woodelf chapter it means I can still scout indefinitely since I can produce orcs and get the goods to negotiate, but the prices are getting to be unreal.

But back to the 'too far' argument. It is utter and complete hogwash.
Why do I say this? Because it's the fights that are impossible, combined with scouting times that are getting to be ridiculously long. However, that is not a complete block.
- Neither of those factors mean anything to the preferred customers of Inno, the topranked players in every world who just buy themselves through the whole game.
- Scoutingtime can be reduced by buying off the time with diamonds.
- Encounters can be negotiated by using diamonds, and the goods needed can be produced at a fast rate by using diamonds.
- This means that there IS no limit that is 'too far out' for those players who spend sheer unlimited funds on the game.

Conclusion : There is not a 'too far out' since it can be reached, but only by spending huge amounts of money on it. But technically the limit is just not there (until one reaches the end of the world map, that is the only real edge there is),
If such a limit isn't there for them, there is no good argument left to say it is there for any other players...except admitting that they want players to spend more money on diamonds.
So Inno, just do that and the discussion about 'too far out' is over.