Adjust spire set goods output

[SoulsSilhouette]

I like scrolls. I give them to my orcs to burn and they love the fires. It's a win-win thing here. But, as a boosted in scrolls player I too wonder about having 2 million scrolls and 25 crystal and 25 silk....a bit of an imbalance (okay, not 25 but usually 200-400k of the other T2's). I try to trade but have to offer a 20-30% discount and even then, if I'm asking for elixir it has to be near 50% discount. So it is imbalanced and we can see it when they introduced the moonstone library.

I like the idea of boosted +1 or even boosted -1. On the other hand, how about letting the player select the goods produced? You get a library, you check a box as to which you wish to have and now you have it. Perhaps you could even change it by putting it into storage and taking it out again? Flexibility of production and nobody needs to lose what they have. Hmmm..... I even like this idea! LOL.

AJ

I doubt that will EVER happen for a build that actually does provide benefits. Yes, if you have a glut of scrolls that can be an irritation, however, if you do have that many, you can burn them in the wholesaler and with 3 star trades.

I am not boosted in scrolls in my main city and I routinely offer three star trades.

Nerfing anything is indecent.

The creation of a different set or extensions that offer different goods when attached, is more reasonable. Anytime an existing build is changed, it hurts a certain number of players out there. They might not be players who frequent the forums or express themselves. There are too many games out there and sometimes, when every step you take forward gets shifted back by multiples of ten, it's far easier to just find a game that more suits what you want.

If you want an economy that you can dictate, BDO, WoW, etc are out there with open markets.

 

[Ashrem]

Nerfing anything is indecent.

Changing the output from one T2 good to another T2 good is not even remotely a nerf. It's actually the opposite. It's good for everyone, including those of us who have them, because we get a server-wide balance of goods to replace a single-good glut. Instead of having to ffer three star trades to dump them, we can get something that isn't excessively supplied.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

My point is, don't change current builds, fix it by adding tag-alongs that can give you the ability to create a different item.

The 'nerfing' comment is going to be added to my signature, I think, because I play several different games and it is my biggest issue with all of them.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I think we have explained enough by now why other options arent options.
A new set op buildings in not the solution to the problem, it could only be worse. if you want to know read the read of the thread

 

[AtaguS]

1. The moonstone library is a powerful building set and offers many benefits to players ( especially those not boosted in scrolls)
2. It's a great prize for the spire because it can be given out in itty-bitty pieces throughout the tiers.
3. Many players have changed their strategies to adapt to the obvious imbalance it creates in the game.
4. None of this counters the problems caused to scroll boosted players.
5. Creating other buildings with a similar output in other goods just makes the problem more widespread.

The main focus for any solution, I say as a player boosted in scrolls for full disclosure, should be getting scrolls boosted players back to a level playing field. I have a moonstone set out as well and love the mana and extra CC I get from it. But I will gladly hand back those boons for the chance to trade my scrolls again and to once again have a valued boost for my fellowship or for any future fellowship I might hope to join. As it is now, my trader is filled with trades from fellowship members not boosted in scrolls, offering scrolls just to get rid of their excess. I put up a scroll trade and I feel like I'm putting a hat out and asking for charity.

 

[Kekune]

I have a moonstone set out as well and love the mana and extra CC I get from it. But I will gladly hand back those boons for the chance to trade my scrolls again

The proposal doesn't include giving those up. You didn't explicitly say it does so you may realize that already, but I want to point it out so other readers don't misunderstand.

I'll update the proposal to be explicit that non-good productions (mana, spell fragments, catalysts, etc) do not change.

 

[AtaguS]

The proposal doesn't include giving those up. You didn't explicitly say it does so you may realize that already, but I want to point it out so other readers don't misunderstand.

Oh yes, sorry to confuse the issue. I was responding soley to the notion that nerfing an existing building is worse than living with the imbalance.

 

[Kekune]

sorry to confuse the issue.

No worries, you identified a possible flaw in the proposal. Better now than later.

It's updated.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

I think we have explained enough by now why other options arent options.
A new set op buildings in not the solution to the problem, it could only be worse. if you want to know read the read of the thread

I have read the thread from beginning to end. My conclusion is that you argue against a set that isn't a benefit to you.

You haven't explained anything other than why you don't like the Moonstone set. I don't agree. I like the moonstone set as is. But since the set isn't a benefit to YOU and a few others, you feel it should be changed. Maybe you have a special relationship with Inno in order to get the game tailored to your game play, but some of us just have to utilize what is out there effectively.

 

[Ashrem]

I have read the thread from beginning to end. My conclusion is that you argue against a set that isn't a benefit to you.

You haven't explained anything other than why you don't like the Moonstone set. I don't agree. I like the moonstone set as is. But since the set isn't a benefit to YOU and a few others, you feel it should be changed. Maybe you have a special relationship with Inno in order to get the game tailored to your game play, but some of us just have to utilize what is out there effectively.

Why is your first go-to when someone disagrees to assume they have a secret relationship with the developers or are lying about something?

Crazywizard isn't arguing against the set, he's asking for them to fix the set, like lots of us. I want it fixed and I have 12 Libraries. Some of us just want the economy to work well so that the game doesn't turn into a joke and shut down.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

Well, it seems to me that many posters feel they know what works for everyone and what doesn't. What they know is what isn't working for them. So unless they have a special relationship with someone who knows what Inno is planning in the future, then deciding what is best is sort of short-sighted. The library may not work for you and wiz and others who post here but I'm not sure you are the majority, although you may think you are. A handful of people have decided that the library isn't a 'good thing'. There have been changes that have greatly negatively impacted my cities.... and yet, I've found work arounds.... so perhaps with the scrolls issue, there is a work around for that as well.

The economy working well seems to synonymous with 'works for you/us' where us isn't everyone.

 

[Ashrem]

The economy working well seems to synonymous with 'works for you/us' where us isn't everyone.

That would be a short-sighted attitude if it were what was happening. I've already indicated earlier that I am making out like a bandit with my spire sets. They are making my game easier, and if I cared only for myself, I'd be happy to say "no problem" just like you are. I happen to be thinking of the players who are stuck with trying to run their cities on their T2 boost when players like me who are boosted in something else are producing over a million scrolls a week and can dump it at a three star trade and still come out ahead.

TLDR: I am not suffering in the least from the Moonstone set. It is a great thing for me. I happen to care about people besides myself.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I have read the thread from beginning to end. My conclusion is that you argue against a set that isn't a benefit to you.

You haven't explained anything other than why you don't like the Moonstone set. I don't agree. I like the moonstone set as is. But since the set isn't a benefit to YOU and a few others, you feel it should be changed. Maybe you have a special relationship with Inno in order to get the game tailored to your game play, but some of us just have to utilize what is out there effectively.

Each of us is relying on a healthy game, even if this set "looks good" to you, it might be unhealthy for the game,
In the long run, this is also unhealthy for you, if people quit te game because they can't seem to get rid of there bonus good and are constantly struggling for non bonus goods because of a set like this then this will hurt you eventually as well.

You need other players / competitors to keep the game healthy, so it's not about you, or me.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

1. The moonstone library is a powerful building set and offers many benefits to players ( especially those not boosted in scrolls)
2. It's a great prize for the spire because it can be given out in itty-bitty pieces throughout the tiers.
3. Many players have changed their strategies to adapt to the obvious imbalance it creates in the game.
4. None of this counters the problems caused to scroll boosted players.
5. Creating other buildings with a similar output in other goods just makes the problem more widespread.

The main focus for any solution, I say as a player boosted in scrolls for full disclosure, should be getting scrolls boosted players back to a level playing field. I have a moonstone set out as well and love the mana and extra CC I get from it. But I will gladly hand back those boons for the chance to trade my scrolls again and to once again have a valued boost for my fellowship or for any future fellowship I might hope to join. As it is now, my trader is filled with trades from fellowship members not boosted in scrolls, offering scrolls just to get rid of their excess. I put up a scroll trade and I feel like I'm putting a hat out and asking for charity.

You have great fellows that keep you afloat, there will be penty of players quitting the game not because they don't like the game but because it became "unplayable" I know several players already contemplating this, inlcuding myself on a new world.
Since it's a "new world" the problem is way more prominent. you are constantly struggling to get other bonus goods and like you explained it feels like begging your fellows who are already swamped in scrolls to help you out.

This is a very unhealthy situation for the game, imagine starting the game being unable to aquire crystal and silk because of this drama.
1/3rd of the "new players" are on auto fail mode the second they start this game, even if they are intrested and would have been keepers otherwise.

 

[Kekune]

@Xelenia, can we vote on this now?

Obviously the discussion will continue, but I think we've captured the relevant points in the current proposal.

 

[Fayeanne]

There have been changes that have greatly negatively impacted my cities.... and yet, I've found work arounds.... so perhaps with the scrolls issue, there is a work around for that as well.

The problem is that people can't choose (or change) their boosts. So they can't work around the issue. They are set at a permanent disadvantage to players who happen to not have scrolls as a boost.

As a side note, the way I see it, the main issue with the Moonstone Library is it is not limited in any manner. Players can obtain as many copies of it as they wish and can continuously upgrade them as they progress through the chapters even without Royal Restorations (since you can simply win another copy from the Spire after entering the next chapter). To my knowledge all of the other special buildings that produce tradeable goods were/are limited in some way. Phoenixes can only be crafted if you don't already have one, and the artifacts are extremely rare. Event buildings are only available during events. And so on. This, I believe, is what makes the Moonstone Library a unique problem.

 

[Yogi Dave]

Well, it seems to me that many posters feel they know what works for everyone and what doesn't. What they know is what isn't working for them. So unless they have a special relationship with someone who knows what Inno is planning in the future, then deciding what is best is sort of short-sighted. The library may not work for you and wiz and others who post here but I'm not sure you are the majority, although you may think you are. A handful of people have decided that the library isn't a 'good thing'. There have been changes that have greatly negatively impacted my cities.... and yet, I've found work arounds.... so perhaps with the scrolls issue, there is a work around for that as well.

Several have posted here, myself included, that the status quo works for them, but we also see it creating imbalances in the game. No, we don't know what works for everyone. Nobody does and nothing works for everyone anyway. We stumble along using what we have learned and talked about with others in our FS and here and observe what the trader looks like in general. This gives us insight, however flawed. You seem to do the same, but then complain about our conclusions which don't agree with yours by accusing us of maybe having a relationship with Inno. I'm sorry, but that seems like far-fetched conspiracy and really isn't meaningful discussion. It could just as easily be you with a connection, but that doesn't matter. Offer opinions, but keep it to that, don't disparage others. I think we are all working to improve the game. In the end, it's the devs who decide what to do and they do have a connection with Inno.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

It is a perceived imbalance tho, Yogi..... Unless you know what INNO is planning for the future, you don't know whether it is necessary.

Inno changed the economy with the wholesaler. I thought that it would improve trading and then came all the event builds that offer T1 goods. Same with T2 and T3.

I think what is important is NOT to cut off one's nose to spite one;s face. You never know what tomorrow holds, even for beta's.

 

[Kekune]

Unless you know what INNO is planning for the future, you don't know whether it is necessary

That's true enough. Fortunately, the devs do, and they're the ones who will decide anything.

It seems clear that many of us DO think this is a problem in the current game structure and context. A vote to support this proposal simply communicates that to the devs and offers a solution. If they already have grand plans that make this all irrelevant, they will simply decline to change it.

 

[Pheryll]

A vote to support this proposal simply communicates that to the devs and offers a solution.

Speaking of voting, are we ready?