Autumn Zodiac Event Feedback

[DeletedUser14718]

On a positive note, the 3 evolving buildings have some fantastic artwork.

And while my heart is set on evolving the Brown Bear, the Polar Bear is probably the most useful for anyone with a busy schedule even if you never evolve it! The Polar Bear brings the cooldown between tourney rounds from 16 hours down to 14:24 hrs. (Edit: And that's just for level 1.)

Of course... I'll still attempt to get enough artifacts to evolve both the Brown & Polar bears to max if the quests are kind to me. The Panda not so much.

I agree with you on the bears, but are you not worried of running out of troops for the tourney?

That is why I was going to do the Brown Bear first. Or do you level up both at the same time?

 

[Pheryll]

How improbable would it be to find a middle ground? The change was announced as a buff but was quickly and easily mathed out to be a pretty heavy nerf. 188 keys may have been too much with that change, but 80 max made it so we were basically punished for complaining about the ws quests, and that's not really fair at all.

The real reason for the change is described below by Scoobydoo:

I'm sorry but where when a game offers 3 bears can you think it is right to try and get 10. That's like me realising there is as fault with a bank cash machine and going back 10 times to get more than I have in the account.
Just be grateful it took awhile for the company to know what was happening.

Marindor gave what the event currency projection was:

The other side of the coin (and I think what most people don't realise enough) is that the event balancing was also based on these difficulty levels, giving incredibly high amounts of event currency during the last week of the event.

Nevertheless, in just the second week Beta players had already made it to the 188 maximum.

The amount of free currency distributed, even without the 30% workshop reduction, was problematic for the Elvenar staff.

 

[DeletedUser14718]

I have been using a lot of time boosts, but at this point I think in the last 24 hours I have had about 7 or 8 "Scout 1 Province or Research 1 Tech or Gain 15 Vison Vapor."


This event sucks.

 

[Deleted User - 312108]

@Pheryll I am pretty sure I made it in less than a week to 188 event currency. I did have the advantage of being at the beginning of chapter 7 with a lot of research ready to go and ample speed boosts 60+ 8 hour, a good amount of 1 & 2 hour boosts, so I was able to push the 9 hour, toolbox and research/scouting. I do naturally taper off as the event comes to live. My own pattern is that I am less likely to speed boost anything 3 hours and under (other than VV crafting or crafting relics) other than to make sure I can complete the 1 hour or 3 hour with one production set run. I currently have one fully evolved, one at level 9 and one at level 1. I fully expect that all 3 will be fully evolved. I also advocate for event currency not being arbitrary but weighted toward the relative cost of the quest quite simply because I would far prefer to see a greater mix in the random quest list rather than these lists (that I would love to put a few other adjectives in front of).
Did I push so I could get all three bears oh yes, but not as much as I could have if I hadn't been busy with moving and other IRL things. But, the fault does not lie with the players for pushing. Beta players especially should be trying to push the event to its limits (and another reason why I would prefer a bit more time between beta and live) so that IG could take and examine the beta results and see how they want to adjust and hopefully polish it for live.

I found the Mermaid event buggy and not well implemented. I have found the Autumn event to be taking what was wrong with the mermaid event and doubling down on it.

 

[Black watch]

Sounds valid & fair. Thank you. I have thought about it, and I am inclined to agree on the not feeling bad part, especially...

I had nothing to do with how INNO changed the event, nor the changes since it went live. I can neither see how I can feel guilty about nor take any credit for any of that process.

As far as I am concerned, I am a innocent bystander with all of this. It's like seeing a hit-and-run...

You have no power or control, or anything at all, over it...Other than whether you look away, or stare in disbelief & horror.

Thank you.

It's not SEEING a hit-and-run... it's being run over by a bus!
There is no innocent bystander on a sidewalk... this is being chased, run down and when you think it's over, the bus backs up and runs you over again, THEN PARKS ON YOU.
Yeah, been so much fun so far....

 

[GlamDoll]

It's not SEEING a hit-and-run... it's being run over by a bus!
There is no innocent bystander on a sidewalk... this is being chased, run down and when you think it's over, the bus backs up and runs you over again, THEN PARKS ON YOU.
Yeah, been so much fun so far....

LMAO!!! I , ummm, err, was trying to be low-key, yeah...

Seriously, I want to type something cool or "witty", but I have broken ribs now & my sides wont stop hurting!

It's just wonderful!

Thanks A F-Ton, or is it Bus-ton?

Cheers

 

[DeletedUser12171]

since there already are replies from the beta forum shared here, I will also post here what I posted on the beta forum, with minor edits:

Let's be real about it here. The old system of fixed number of quests and grand prizes had a hard limit on how many key prizes a person could get. It came to a point where one could get all 3 Grand Prizes for no money as long as they were active enough. The following scenarios would be where people spent money:
- to rush through the questline or overcome a certain difficult quest
- to get prizes without having to do quests
- to get more daily prizes

There are not too many incentives for heavy spenders to spend more, as long as they were active enough

Switching to an "unlimited quests, unlimited prizes" format is simply to lift the cap for the heavy spenders. So Devs/mods, please don't give some lame reason about "balance" or what not. The issue is not with people getting too many prizes but that they are getting too many prizes for free. Now nobody is going to fault you for making money for a decent day's work but please don't treat us as simpletons. If it were really about that then go on, scrap the unlimited system and go back to the 3-GP-set-quest system - I dare you! Or even set a hard cap on the number of bear artifacts or event buildings one can get this time! That way you have full control over how many key prizes everyone gets!

The second issue is this: you were so quick to make changes that affect your earnings but players' feedback about the practical feasibility of some quests (scout, unlock tech, burdensome numbers of chapter-1 production buildings needed) or the silly fail-random system have literally fallen on deaf ears. Come on. There is an adage that goes "don't bite the hand that feeds you". Please show that you're wiser than that.

I like the bear prizes but how this event is run is a real downer.

 

[chgobob33]

I think you are correct this is a PURE cash grab, I think part of what makes this event so terrible is almost NONE of the quests are NORMAL. Past event events do x of this 3 or 9 hours you could set up the level 1 stuff and actually PLAY the event. Now it's just a bunch of BS, ok it wants me to toss in another 40 hours of time instants for a task or $$$$. Ridiculous it's just a bunch of time cheat everything to get more than 3 stage upgrades if that in the 20 days. Even the produce x T1 is total crap. The old events you actually played were gain so you could trade. In Constructs itsPRODUCE 47,100 T1, wtf? I had 3 mermaids sitting ready + plus 4 T1 9hrs ready to go, still not enough!! I had to MM the T1's and that's 1 quest.

Remember nerfing the keys I think folks have to average like 9 or 10 tasks a day impossible without just CHEATING by time instant or $$$ everything, it's not playing.

since there already are replies from the beta forum shared here, I will also post here what I posted on the beta forum, with minor edits:

Let's be real about it here. The old system of fixed number of quests and grand prizes had a hard limit on how many key prizes a person could get. It came to a point where one could get all 3 Grand Prizes for no money as long as they were active enough. The following scenarios would be where people spent money:
- to rush through the questline or overcome a certain difficult quest
- to get prizes without having to do quests
- to get more daily prizes

There are not too many incentives for heavy spenders to spend more, as long as they were active enough

Switching to an "unlimited quests, unlimited prizes" format is simply to lift the cap for the heavy spenders. So Devs/mods, please don't give some lame reason about "balance" or what not. The issue is not with people getting too many prizes but that they are getting too many prizes for free. Now nobody is going to fault you for making money for a decent day's work but please don't treat us as simpletons. If it were really about that then go on, scrap the unlimited system and go back to the 3-GP-set-quest system - I dare you! Or even set a hard cap on the number of bear artifacts or event buildings one can get this time! That way you have full control over how many key prizes everyone gets!

The second issue is this: you were so quick to make changes that affect your earnings but players' feedback about the practical feasibility of some quests (scout, unlock tech, burdensome numbers of chapter-1 production buildings needed) or the silly fail-random system have literally fallen on deaf ears. Come on. There is an adage that goes "don't bite the hand that feeds you". Please show that you're wiser than that.

I like the bear prizes but how this event is run is a real downer.

 

[Black watch]

since there already are replies from the beta forum shared here, I will also post here what I posted on the beta forum, with minor edits:

Let's be real about it here. The old system of fixed number of quests and grand prizes had a hard limit on how many key prizes a person could get. It came to a point where one could get all 3 Grand Prizes for no money as long as they were active enough. The following scenarios would be where people spent money:
- to rush through the questline or overcome a certain difficult quest
- to get prizes without having to do quests
- to get more daily prizes

There are not too many incentives for heavy spenders to spend more, as long as they were active enough

Switching to an "unlimited quests, unlimited prizes" format is simply to lift the cap for the heavy spenders. So Devs/mods, please don't give some lame reason about "balance" or what not. The issue is not with people getting too many prizes but that they are getting too many prizes for free. Now nobody is going to fault you for making money for a decent day's work but please don't treat us as simpletons. If it were really about that then go on, scrap the unlimited system and go back to the 3-GP-set-quest system - I dare you! Or even set a hard cap on the number of bear artifacts or event buildings one can get this time! That way you have full control over how many key prizes everyone gets!

The second issue is this: you were so quick to make changes that affect your earnings but players' feedback about the practical feasibility of some quests (scout, unlock tech, burdensome numbers of chapter-1 production buildings needed) or the silly fail-random system have literally fallen on deaf ears. Come on. There is an adage that goes "don't bite the hand that feeds you". Please show that you're wiser than that.

I like the bear prizes but how this event is run is a real downer.

So right!

I think you are correct this is a PURE cash grab, I think part of what makes this event so terrible is almost NONE of the quests are NORMAL. Past event events do x of this 3 or 9 hours you could set up the level 1 stuff and actually PLAY the event. Now it's just a bunch of BS, ok it wants me to toss in another 40 hours of time instants for a task or $$$$. Ridiculous it's just a bunch of time cheat everything to get more than 3 stage upgrades if that in the 20 days. Even the produce x T1 is total crap. The old events you actually played were gain so you could trade. In Constructs its PRODUCE 47,100 T1, wtf? I had 3 mermaids sitting ready + plus 4 T1 9hrs ready to go, still not enough!! I had to MM the T1's and that's 1 quest.

Remember nerfing the keys I think folks have to average like 9 or 10 tasks a day impossible without just CHEATING by time instant or $$$ everything, it's not playing.

I have TWO bear artifacts so far and 16 key's in the bank... I've managed to get two 14hr prizes and one Pond out of the 2000 approx keys collected and spent. This isn't going well for me and I'm not even sure where I am in the event...
I am pretty sure that I'm way off the pace to finish just one bear. What ever pace that may be.

 

[kctanzen]

The math wizards have figured out that the 'average' key cost per GP trail spot is 23 and change.
I round up to 25 for easy figuring and being more conservative estimate.
So .. 25 x 20 = 500 keys per GP trail.
Need 17 GP trails to get 9 evolving instants to max out a bear.
17 x 500 = 8500 keys

In this event, I am targeting the most 'efficient' GP option, not the daily prize best or other factors.
I was not sure I could amass the 8500 or so keys it will take to fully evolve one bear, let alone start another one, even with the ground spawn booster helping increase my keys from collections around my city to supplement quests.

If you aren't a highly active player or purchase a significant amount of event currency, going for the orbs that seem to appeal to you the most, or trying to get daily prizes, will most likely mean you don't get anywhere close to fully evolving a bear.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

The math wizards have figured out that the 'average' key cost per GP trail spot is 23 and change.
I round up to 25 for easy figuring and being more conservative estimate.
So .. 25 x 20 = 500 keys per GP trail.
Need 17 GP trails to get 9 evolving instants to max out a bear.
17 x 500 = 8500 keys

In this event, I am targeting the most 'efficient' GP option, not the daily prize best or other factors.
I was not sure I could amass the 8500 or so keys it will take to fully evolve one bear, let alone start another one, even with the ground spawn booster helping increase my keys from collections around my city to supplement quests.

If you aren't a highly active player or purchase a significant amount of event currency, going for the orbs that seem to appeal to you the most, or trying to get daily prizes, will most likely mean you don't get anywhere close to fully evolving a bear.

I have not kept track of exactly how many orbs gave me back the keys when I opened them, so I can only say that I have collected somewhere between 7200-7500 keys as we reach 168 hours into the event. I just completed the 16th grand prize, so the next one will be my 9th artifact. I have not bought any keys and I have completed through quest 111 as of tonight. I have used a fair amount of Time instants to get to this point, but I still have a lot of them left to use, as well. Oh, and I also never buy the event building, so not bonus ground spawn for me either. If they had not reduced the key rewards from the quests, I would probably be almost done with a 2nd bear, instead of almost done with the first one.

None of the grand prizes so far have made me want to hold onto the keys and wait, so I have been opening orbs as soon as I have enough keys to do so. I always open the 18-cost orbs if one is present, then I go for 29 and 57 next. 25 if none of those are available. I did some of the 26-cost the first couple of days because I was low on IM enchantments. I never touch the 28 or 41-cost orbs and, despite other people loving them, I rarely open the 85 or 142-cost orbs, though I will open one of them if the only other options are the 28 or 41.

Elvengems also says 8500 keys for an average player to get the nine artifacts.

 

[kctanzen]

@Enevhar Aldarion I should have clarified that highly active / using timer instants are essentially synonyms.
I use timers quite a lot for the scout / research vapor quests in the crafting section only, if I have the right combo in one set of crafting recipes to get it done or nearly so in one recipe set.
I also use timers to gain stacks of troops and cast MM to boost up production if necessary for the produce x amount quests, which don't come for me often.
Have nearly run out of my shorter duration timer instants so this might be problematic going forward (for crafting).

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Have nearly run out of my shorter duration timer instants so this might be problematic going forward (for crafting).

That is one of the side bonuses from choosing the 18-cost orb so much. One of the prizes is 2 two-hour Time instants, so I have a bunch of those right now.

 

[Wholan]

This is one of the worst events yet. The minimum level on the Manufactory is terrible! Since you haven't put in a option to skip quest that require to make things with at level limit I am stuck until I am able to level it up from 9 to 16 Even by then I will only have one as I have not the room to upgrade the other ones, The last event (Mermaid) I enjoyed and it was the only event that I nearly finished as I am only a casual player and not a pay to win. But this event is terrible as I haven't even been able to get the first bear artifact as being stuck at the Manufactory quest.

 

[Socrates28]

@Fairy Dust
Thank you for your work on our behalf. As a former software support person dealing with frustration is always challenging. Over all you, and the rest of your team, are doing a good job.
Again Thank you.

 

[Pheryll]

The math wizards have figured out that the 'average' key cost per GP trail spot is 23 and change.

If you take the optimum route you have an average of 20.75

 

[kctanzen]

The problem I often face -- the 'optimum choices' to get the average of 20.75 are frequently unavailable!
So, that's why I round up to the next easiest to figure number, knowing it is a conservative estimate and uses the Scotty principle.

 

[rvtdragon1]

After waiting 24 hours for toolboxes this morning my quests are:

3 Tooboxes
Stack of Units
7/35 encounters
7/35 Encounter
7/35 encounters
7/35 encounters and again
7/35 encounters.

What are the odds? (1 in 4,000,000? I was not great in Finite Math. A greater math mind than me would need to figure this out.) It seems that, from reading this thread, more likely than not but really! What has happened to the randomizer that something like this could happen?

So, add me to the list of unhappy with this event players. Sorry INNO, I am truly disappointed. Not going to rant and threaten to quit. Too much invested to quit now but, boy you have made it really tough to continue. You know we are unhappy and just want some understanding answers. The silence is deafening. Huh? What was that? Did I hear something? Oh, no. Just the coffee maker shutting off. Beep beep beep.............................................

Edit to add: (minutes later)

Relief?

Gain 15 Vision Vapor (had that ready and waiting)
9 encounters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pheryll]

The problem I often face -- the 'optimum choices' to get the average of 20.75 are frequently unavailable!
So, that's why I round up to the next easiest to figure number, knowing it is a conservative estimate and uses the Scotty principle.

The average is weighted by the probability of selecting each option based on its availability and your preference. That is getting the first choice is 28/84 = 1/3 probability, the second choice appearing without the first choice present is 21/84= 1/4 probability. Many averages you see do things the easy way without considering choice preference. To get a thorough calculation I would recommend that you use MinMax's calculator as he does the extra leg work that is needed to properly analyze.

 

[kctanzen]

Prefacing (again) that I'm not a math wizard ..
And I use MinMax's tool as my starting point

Statistics in an unlimited sampling size are fantastic.
I don't have an unlimited amount of resources (keys) to use, so in order to ensure that I do get somewhat close to what I want, I use the large sampling weights as a starting point and pad that figure to allow for the likelihood that a 5 to 15% chance for extra keys is much less likely to happen with a smaller number of attempts.