DeletedUser3507
Guest
This new tourney eats troops like crazy, I stated a thread to show Inno our loses and feeling about it.
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Your Elvenar Team
Sir Squirrel
Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
DeletedUser1791
Guest
I don't like the new tourney style at all. Heavy troop loss and spotty rewards... no longer worth my time. It was a good ride. I used to place top 8 quite often.
DeletedUser2334
Guest
So just fought a round 3 battle, 2nd province out. Autofight wiped out all 5 of my squads. Manually fought with the same configuration and only lost 2.2 squads. WTF Inno? Even at 4 battles per province, I don't have time to manually fight 40 battles every 16 hours. What is the point of having autofight if its not usable in the new system?
DeletedUser3640
Guest
It's a tournament. If you can't participate - don't. Since when it's a devs duty to ensure your participation? Didn't really notice any changes in auto fighting... and I'm using auto fighting a lot.
DeletedUser2334
Guest
The "devs duty" is to provide a game/product that people enjoy playing. If people don't enjoy a major aspect of the game (i.e. tournaments), then they leave. As more and more people continue to leave, the developers lose money. The game then dies and the "devs" no longer have a job.
I'm glad you didn't "notice any changes in auto fighting" and you still enjoy this game by using autofight "a lot". However, I provided a very specific example of how the autofight option clearly is causing 227% more troop losses than manual fighting. If the game still works for you, great. This does not mean that you should assume the game is still working the same for other people.
DeletedUser1791
Guest
Auto fighting loss is extremely high even at low province levels. This chapter may spell the beginning of the end for me playing elvenar. I'm hoping the devs will continue to tweak it, or better yet just revert back.
DeletedUser3122
Guest
I've found this to be the case also. There are hard feelings among those who work very hard to open chests and those that want to participate minimally and still get the reward.
Can't blame the players for wanting to take advantage of an unfair playing field that Inno created. If Inno designed it, people will use any system to their own advantage. Not everyone is a team player. The Archmage can do a lot to illicit cooperation and teamwork. But they also can only do so much.
It is a design flaw if you asked me. It may create a common cause for some fellowships, but those tend to be the very competitive fellowships who want the highest rewards and ranks. There are a lot of people who play the game for completely different reasons, due to stress in the real world, they don't want competitive and cutthroat gaming. They want to come to a place to have a little fun and forget about the world.
I don't know how Inno could've balanced it better - the neighbor tournaments certainly weren't working at all, for anyone. The FS ones seem to work for the most competitive FS, and most FS aren't as competitive. I can't come up with a constructive suggestion. Can you?
Some people have already answered, and I don't know about catering in tournaments (I honestly haven't paid attention, I've never gone past the 8th ring). For the regular province fighting and negotiating, orcs are required from ring 11 and higher. The way to tell what ring you're on: click on a fight. The ranking points for winning the province is the ring number.
I don't think it's a matter of anyone believing their FS members are lazy and taking advantage. I think it's more like, a few people work very hard at getting points to open the chests, and when others don't work as hard and the rewards are less, they feel cheated out of the higher prizes.
Maybe it's a bad FS fit, but I think the fault lies in the design Inno created. Most FS have members that just don't have time to devote. Can't fault those players. But you can fault a bad game design.
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DeletedUser3640
Guest
I've seen mixed opinions so far. So it's not "people", but just some individuals, or a really small group of people. If they will leave, new players will replace them eventually.
Shocker. Human intelligence is superior to artificial intelligence. Effort is superior to laziness.
You asked "What is the point of having autofight if its not usable in the new system?"...so I'm asking you - what would be the point of having manual fighting, if it would be as good as auto fighting?
Actually it does. Because, well, it's the same game, same AI, same units. Only choices that players make are different. Don't blame devs for something that devs can't control.
DeletedUser3122
Guest
No, I had not entered orc chapter at all when I explored beyond ring 10 and found they could only be negotiated with orcs. It's how many rings, not the chapter.
Ashrem
Oh Wise One
Which is why the devs' duty is to ensure R.O.I., not to provide a game that specific people enjoy playing.
I previously aimed (in my boosted provinces) for six provinces to level 6, with the final three levels being entirely catered. So far this iteration I have 9 provinces to level 3 and a 10th to level 2, and have not yet lost half of the troops with which I started. I wish I didn't have to spend so much time manually fighting, but the results are positive for me, so overall I am pleased with the activity.
I am not pleased with my personal R.O.I, because I valued the KP I was getting before, and am still not sure if the end of the tourney will leave me happy, but I'm willing to restrain the majority of my criticism until my first pass at the new tourney style is finished.
It's not possible to build a game that everyone will like. Players have their own responsibility to work within the available rule-set. The devs have already responded to this issue. The latest redesign is intended to ensure that players who only participate a little will make a larger contribution to the total than they were last week. Now it's the players' turn to make some adjustments. either we have to be okay with some getting the same result for less effort, or we have to reorganize to ensure we work beside people who are committed to consistent effort.
Our Fs is probably more competitive than some, and less than others. We happen to have an active and inspirational AM who encourages people to put out their best effort, but does not make a requirement of it. We also have people who devote their time near the end of the tourney to locating and distributing resources to those who are better placed to make the effort. I realize I'm very lucky to have fallen into the group I'm in, but that doesn't absolve me of making my own choices when it comes to participation. Blaming other people for only putting out the effort they want to in a game is borderline. Saying the devs need to interfere is over the line.
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DeletedUser2963
Guest
@Deawyne The question is not when do you hit orcs on the world map...the question is when are orcs required to cater the tournament provinces. We are trying to figure out the parameters. Some people in the orcs era do not need them to cater, and some do.
I just finished advanced scouts, I still have squad expansion 20 and city expansion 28 in fairies unfilled. 187 provinces cleared and 4 open. No orcs needed that I have seen, but I finished advanced scouts after the tourney started (wanted the boost to culture buildings for the upcoming event). I do have provinces open in ring 11 and 12. I have not closed the "Research Advanced Scouts" quest.
I just finished advanced scouts, I still have squad expansion 20 and city expansion 28 in fairies unfilled. 187 provinces cleared and 4 open. No orcs needed that I have seen, but I finished advanced scouts after the tourney started (wanted the boost to culture buildings for the upcoming event). I do have provinces open in ring 11 and 12. I have not closed the "Research Advanced Scouts" quest.
Actually it is, I was responding very specifically to @princeavery 's comment
Thus my post, why stay in a FS if you think your mates are lazy and taking advantage.
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Mykan
Oh Wise One
It was better before they started to tweak it and every time people complain it seems to get worse.
This is a big issue with people continually complaining about the AI. As it gets smarter it makes the manual fights harder and harder and longer and longer because the exploits in the AI are no longer there on the manual fights.
As you said AI is the same for computer and human troops so we can't make ours smarter and the enemy dumber, it just doesn't work that way.
DeletedUser3640
Guest
I need an example. Seriously.
Let's break down known AI exploits:
- abusing initiative, AI still rushes towards player's units and doesn't skip turns, present in "new" AI, nothing has changed;
- abusing target priorities, AI still attacks and tries to attack nearly dead squads with their full squads, present in "new" AI, nothing has changed;
- abusing terrain, players still can manipulate AI to wander around a rock or a bush, w/e, present in "new" AI, nothing has changed;
- abusing buffs and debuffs, AI still has no clue how to effectively use buffs or debuffs, present in "new" AI, nothing has changed;
- abusing position, AI still doesn't recognize bigger threats - i.e. it doesn't move melee units out of reach while nuking player's units with ranged units, present in "new" AI, nothing has changed;
- abusing "knowledge" of AI unit position, AI unit position is still pre-determined and isn't randomized every time, present in "new" AI, nothing has changed.
Isn't that enough for you, people? Like come on, these AI exploits are the reason why you can beat x2 bigger armies, not your amazing intellect. Be honest with yourself, keep exploiting AI weaknesses, don't draw unnecessary attention to them and for ***** sake stop asking devs for unbeatable army.
DeletedUser2334
Guest
Reiq, how long have you been playing? For those of us here for >1yr, the developers made a huge change to squad sizes because many of us had scouted outside the GZ before there even was a GZ. Next, the developers significantly altered troop abilities. In this latest round, the developers made a significant change in the size of squads we face in tournaments. So the developers have made very direct and intentional changes to this game, specifically the fighting. How can you argue that they have no control over these decisions?
And for your information we are not asking for invincible armies. We are asking that either we 1) face equal squad sizes or 2) have superior strategy/ability to fight overwhelming enemy squad sizes. The game used to be like this and the developers have very much reduced the ability to fight like we used to.
Anyway, I think I'm done as many of my fellow players already are. I really liked this game, but not anymore. I hope that Inno can continue to create a game that you like and that people like you can continue to support the developers.
The point is choice. If I am busy with work (you know to pay for the game), then I can autofight to advance in the tournament and still keep up on the rewards. If I am not swamped at work, I can manually fight and enjoy the ability to use a bit of strategy and maybe save a few troops. The major disparity between fighting options means there is really no fair choice, thus only catering to one play style.
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DeletedUser1766
Guest
Inno you have made the tournaments extremely difficult. All the troops I had prepared for this were wiped out in the first round. You have made the squad sizes way too big. You have halve the battles but the squad sizes are about 10 times what they were. 600 troops is impossible . Auto battle is suicide. My fellowship are saying that the rewards are simply not worth the effort or the cost and many are ready to quit tournaments forever. We are still no closer to the last chest either. So frustrated. All of us played the first round for the kp's but there were none. I played into the second page of provinces and found some but very few of my people could fight or cater in provinces 10 and above just to get kp's. They would be cheaper to buy them. Please reduce the squad sizes for the next one or my people will have to give up in despair. This was supposed to be something that brought the fellowship together but it has now failed.
DeletedUser3122
Guest
That would make the forums and player input useless, no?
DeletedUser3640
Guest
I'm playing in the similar manner as you do - I use auto fight or cater when I'm at work, and I fight manually when I'm at home. But I think it's fair that people who spend more time playing (i.e. who can fight manually all the time) are rewarded in one way or another.
I've been playing for 7 months, so I know how easy fighting was. Unfortunately I didn't manage to exploit old fighting system as my beloved "advanced" players did. I kinda miss old abilities, but new ones aren't that bad.
Right now people went nuts, wasting their army, mindlessly grinding points, and then crying about it. Same thing happened when FS tournaments were launched for the first time. After two weeks players realized that there's no need for that, and tournament ladder stabilized. It's just a matter of time when history will repeat itself. Players will realize that mindless grinding isn't worth it, that they don't have infinite army, that crying doesn't help....aaaand will then adjust their playstyle.
Ashrem
Oh Wise One
Not remotely. It simply means that people should stop thinking that what they want is what's best for the game. Player should always share their opinions. It's when they start to believe their opinion is gold, and that all other opinions are wrong, that they get frustrated and disappointed.
(edit: and if I may add, that was a pretty passive-aggressive way to attack my position. There's an enormous gap between players having some responsibility to adjust to the game and the forums being useless.)
DeletedUser1996
Guest
Right thats true ! --I was talking about the new tourny ! I already blasted past the 10th/11th ring and wasnt even in p`orcs & clobblers yet, but in my tournys i didnt need them (the Orcs)...now i do ! ~ im past the orcies now - so still not sure why some need em and others say they dont in the new tourny.
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