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    Your Elvenar Team

Cancelled. After reading through it, this thread is irrecoverable.

sam767

Active Member
I was reading through with a the goal to summarize the relevant comments and realized this thread is not recoverable. Several others mentioned this, but I only have so much time. Thanks for everyone's participation and support and if you are still interested, go on over to the new thread.

The recommendation has 2 parts:
1. Re-balance the spell fragments between the Gateway and High halls by significantly increasing them in the Gateway and reducing them by an offsetting amount in the High Halls. The re-balance means that non-spell fragment rewards are reduced in the Gateway and increased in the High Halls.
2. Replace all spell fragment rewards in the Laboratory with similar value rewards.

The problem with excess spell fragments has been extensively discussed in this thread. There was seems to be an emerging consensus on the replacement to the SF rewards. As the discussion evolves I plan to add it here.

Thanks for Xelenia's guiding hand and all of your constructive suggestions for this forum newbie.
 
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DeletedUser24439

Guest
I agree there needs to be something done about the excess of spell fragments. Either make more crafting recipes that only require spell fragments OR significantly reduce the spell fragments you win in the spire. It's a little ridiculous that every peasant chest has a chance of obtaining them.
 

AtaguS

Well-Known Member
Remember when the crafting came out. It was such a magnificent addition to the game. One of the crafting currencies, spell fragments, was gained by disenchanting buildings. Then came the spire.
This is a great point, and makes a strong case for your suggestion. The way things are now...both the events and the spire suffer for player enthusiasm. This suggestion would give both a boost.

When crafting came along I saw it as a smart solution to the overloaded inventory issue. Both the inventory and event buildings gained an additional significance and use. I was grateful for this solution as it provided a value to all the fruits of the labor I was putting into the game. With the introduction of the spire, this crafting solution is broken and we are back to a pile-up of once-again-useless buildings from an event determined to give us so very many buildings of weakened value. It seems lately we are meant to believe that the joy of laboring itself is fruit enough to keep us playing, and prizes are just icing to be grateful for - a slippery slope of an argument in such an event-heavy game.

I have noticed a trend lately, with events, prize buildings and FAs, and don't think I'm alone in this observation. It seems clear that Inno is attempting to re-balance the reward pay-out vs. difficulty level after (I'm guessing) giving away too much in 2019. Fair enough, I hope they manage it as anything worth having ought to be hard to come by. I don't need 20 wishing wells pumping out diamonds to be happy in this game.

However... As part of this attempt, I've also noticed we are being sold a line about the game needing only to be "challenging" to be fun and that anything other than a crappy prize which is hard to use would be nothing more than a hand-out. This point of view does has merit, as you do want the game to be both challenging and profitable, but it is also an incomplete statement. Somewhere along the way, the subtle art of enticing players to take up the challenge with worthy returns for their labor and useful mechanics is getting lost. Without that subtle addition, the game just starts to feel like a cash-grab to many of us who had gotten used to there being a solid value attached to our efforts (in addition to the glory of the effort). Yes, diamond purchases make the game possible...but so do customers willing to purchase them ;) . I do hope Inno takes a look at suggestions like these and sees that many of them are coming from an imbalance that is far subtler than how the term is otherwise used.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
I used to keep my inventory of buildings low by placing and deleting them. I didn't like the clutter. Then came crafting. If I hadn't had a ton of EE and PoP spells, I'd have had problems. Getting CC spells also took time and relics. Then, like @sam767 said, came the spire. Now neither of them are hard to get. I have 304K spell frags and 110 CC spells. That's without producing CC spells and keeping the MA constantly crafting. The CC spells don't need to be addressed, but I do like the idea of being able to craft larger time instants (or other things) using spell frags.

There is a problem with this, which would have to be listed as a Con: I think there are a limited number of recipes and these new ones would have to replace some of them. Maybe Inno could just add them as new recipes, but that deceases the probability of getting any of the other recipes. We already complain about not enough pet food, 5-day buildings, etc. Everyone has their favs and would/should complain that now they rarely appear. @sam767 you say your FS makes it to 2 spire crystals from the top. Getting there produces a lot of time instants on it's own, unless you need to rush to the top. Even then, you get more than it costs to get there. So, helping you get farther in the spire doesn't sound like a good reason for this change.

Also, from things I've read, Inno is limiting certain things to only come from the spire and time instants is one of them, so it may be difficult for them to take this form of the suggestion as it is. Inno could change some recipes to require more frags and less of something else, but that introduces a problem for people who aren't overloaded with spell frags and it would put those recipes out of their reach. Sigh, at this point, I'm devoid of ideas on where to go to make this idea palatable to the devs and to have it improve game play instead of just changing one problem for another. I sure would like more time instants, though.
 

sam767

Active Member
I agree there needs to be something done about the excess of spell fragments. Either make more crafting recipes that only require spell fragments OR significantly reduce the spell fragments you win in the spire. It's a little ridiculous that every peasant chest has a chance of obtaining them.
I just checked - the Lava Eggs disenchant for 960 spell fragments. I think there needs to be some more re-balancing here. I have a new city that just made it into Chapter 3. One time up to the first boss and he has all of the fragments he needs for the available CC for several weeks.
 

AtaguS

Well-Known Member
There is a problem with this, which would have to be listed as a Con: I think there are a limited number of recipes and these new ones would have to replace some of them. Maybe Inno could just add them as new recipes, but that deceases the probability of getting any of the other recipes.
Good point. I've been trying to follow along in the Crafting Recipes Master List thread but it tends to make my head swim. Some evaluation of that list in connection with adding new recipes would certainly help this idea evolve further. Or course...were there to be a poll at some point, I wonder if it would include a petition for less frequent spell fragments on the way up the spire. Perhaps those nifty little troop boosters could replace the fragment choice on the 3rd tier, for example. Perhaps it takes this suggestion too far off the path? But it would address the spire/event imbalance issue nicely
 

PaNonymeB

Well-Known Member
Two of the last recipes they added to crafting were a Pet Food costing 1650 spell fragments and 30 RR spells for 3150 spell fragments and 3 blueprints.
Hopefully they already planned to add more recipes like this.
 

sam767

Active Member
Looking at the 2 RR30 recipes, 7 Combining Catalyst (CC) are replaced by 3150 spell fragments (SF). So the "exchange rate" is 450SF/CC.

The 8HR recipe is 622 SF 1 CC or 1072 SF. I suggested 6000 for two. This would be quite a change in pricing philosophy.

I'm leaning toward Brandon's suggestion that the issue is on the supply side (from the spire). If you take the spire away, the original crafting design holds together well. SFs are precious and I can disenchant all of my excess buildings.

I withdraw this suggestion. I suspect the devs already looking at the supply side problem
 

PaNonymeB

Well-Known Member
Looking at the 2 RR30 recipes, 7 Combining Catalyst (CC) are replaced by 3150 spell fragments (SF). So the "exchange rate" is 450SF/CC.
With L5 MA disenchanting a CC is worth 90SF. This means, the price to use SF only is paying 5× more with L5 MA (or 10× more with L1).
Now look at the pet food recipe. It costs 5 relics + 2CC. Disenchanting a spell is worth 30× # of relics used, so 5relics+2CC are worth 330 SF. Once again, exchange rate is ×5.
This said, a SFonly version of 8h boost culd cost (622+90)×5 = 3560 SF. Pretty close to what you purpose.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
One problem is that there are already so many recipes that can show up, that some people are going days or weeks without seeing any Pet Food or any of the temp military buildings. Adding more recipes without removing any would just make this worse, but there are only a few that could easily be removed without players complaining. At the minimum, every new recipe should replace an old, mostly unused recipe.

This thread discusses all the current recipes and has a link to a list of them all:

 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
I'm leaning toward Brandon's suggestion that the issue is on the supply side (from the spire). …
I withdraw this suggestion. I suspect the devs already looking at the supply side problem
Too many unused spell frags is a waste and a solution would be nice. So it's good you brought it up. I also think it is a supply side issue. Are the devs looking at that? Maybe, maybe not, but that's why we have the ideas and suggestions sections.

And BTW, welcome aboard.
 

Darielle

Well-Known Member
I wish I had that many spell fragments. I always run out and I don't even craft daily. But then, I hate the spire (except for the first 3 chests). I guess that's my problem. I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get used to it. :(
 

sam767

Active Member
I wish I had that many spell fragments. I always run out and I don't even craft daily. But then, I hate the spire (except for the first 3 chests). I guess that's my problem. I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get used to it. :(
Try it! You will grow to love it. The first tier is easy and inexpensive and you get sooo many goodies.
 

sam767

Active Member
Too many unused spell frags is a waste and a solution would be nice. So it's good you brought it up. I also think it is a supply side issue. Are the devs looking at that? Maybe, maybe not, but that's why we have the ideas and suggestions sections.

And BTW, welcome aboard.
I think swapping some of the SFs out for troop instants will meet with universal approval - Devs have to be thinking about it. Should I add the suggestion? If they built the system like I would build it, should just be a database change. But then, I'm a back-end guy.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
I think swapping some of the SFs out for troop instants will meet with universal approval
That's a good idea. I also think the type items should change as you move up the spire. The needs of players changes as you move up.
Should I add the suggestion?
Rebalancing goods in the spire chest should be in an entirely different thread, in my opinion.
But then, I'm a back-end guy.
I'm not going to touch that line, but I'm sure @mucksterme would/will have fun with it. o_O