Cancelled. After reading through it, this thread is irrecoverable.

[Trevor T]

@sam767 . The spire is relatively new and a lot of us already have more gum trees, mana plants, Endless scrolls and SF's that we could ever need. Some of you posted about having more relics than you'll ever need or more PoPs but at least you couldn't use them if you wanted. You could PoP your buildings every day, level up your blooming trade center and trade in your extra tools for goods. So they ARE usable. SFs have no use other than crafting. I think troop regiments would be a good addition. The spire gives diamonds which helps those who convince, why not give troops to help those who like to fight it?

 

[mucksterme]

The spire gives diamonds which helps those who convince, why not give troops to help those who like to fight it?

Better yet. Put in troop instants from the other "barracks" buildings.
It would be a cool bonus for smaller guys who have not yet unlocked those buildings.
And be more useful to those of us who prefer Toads to Golems etc.

 

[Alpha Lyrae]

Last year my FS was acutely short of scrolls. Now we have over 20 million!

As a player with scrolls as a boosted good, it's becoming more and more difficult to balance my T2 goods as no one needs my scrolls.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

There were no comments on my recommendation. The focus here was to be easy and make the higher levels of the spire less annoying. Maybe we do not need any more mana or gum trees (I like them). Instead, perhaps another supply or coin instant.

Dont remove too much SF, otherwise you will be stuck in the old position again, with a shortage of SF.

Maybe remove them from the 3rd level but keep them fully intact on the first level and mostly on the second.
Especially the first level is important for beginners, it seems that a buildup occurs somewhere in the second stage.
But the first stage ain't enough tot sustain the academy. so a middle ground is needed.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Better yet. Put in troop instants from the other "barracks" buildings.
It would be a cool bonus for smaller guys who have not yet unlocked those buildings.
And be more useful to those of us who prefer Toads to Golems etc.

There are a lot of troop instants in the tower, ~200 of them, they are called time instants and you can throw more than a week of those in your barracks for an insane amount of units.

 

[Darielle]

My FS is going to try for gold this week. I need to convince 6 non-participants to do the gateway level and we will make it. Some people just hate the spire.

I detested the spire until a dear member (Atagu$) taught me how to convince without losing my shirt (or diamonds). Maybe you could have lessons in a message asking for participation, so that people would be more comfortable with it. That would have helped me as a newbie, I know. Now I am so addicted to the spire I usually make it at least to the door of the lab, if not all the way.

 

[Ashrem]

There are a lot of troop instants in the tower, ~200 of them, they are called time instants and you can throw more than a week of those in your barracks for an insane amount of units.

If that's the only use you have for timer instants. If you want to use timer instants for other things, then there are none available.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

If that's the only use you have for timer instants. If you want to use timer instants for other things, then there are none available.

If you replace some time instants for troop instants, you get less choice, the point is the are there and you can use them if you want.
I responded to a respons to a claim that there was no prize for "fighters" but there was one for "negotiatiors"

Time boosters are the prize for fighters but you have the choice to use if for something else instead.
They are also so much better than boosters as you can turn them into any unit you like instead of a fixed unit from the barracks.

 

[Ashrem]

If you replace some time instants for troop instants, you get less choice, the point is the are there and you can use them if you want.

Nice mainpulation, but nobody asked for fewer timer instants. People asked for troop instants in exchange for fewer fragments and you suggested we don't need troop instants because we can user timer instants. Thanks for playing.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Nice mainpulation, but nobody asked for fewer timer instants. People asked for troop instants in exchange for fewer fragments and you suggested we don't need troop instants because we can user timer instants. Thanks for playing.

The OP wanted to change most spellfragment to goods or timeboosters.
If you want to add troop instants something on that list has to budge,

You want to change any prize from what it is to troop instants the timebooster would always be the better prize as it ain't limited to troops.
So why would you even want to add troop boosters? just for the direct correlation to "combat vs negotiating"?

 

[Ashrem]

The OP wanted to change most spellfragment to goods or timeboosters.
If you want to add troop instants something on that list has to budge,

You want to change any prize from what it is to troop instants the timebooster would always be the better prize as it ain't limited to troops.
So why would you even want to add troop boosters? just for the direct correlation to "combat vs negotiating"?

The OP wants to change the rewards. We are now on page seven of a discussion about whether that's a good idea and how best to accomplish it. If you think there should be more timer instants, that's a reasonable position. Saying we don't need more troop instants because we already have timer instants is not anything like suggesting more timer instants. if you want to pick a new position, feel free to go for it.

I'll support more timer instants to replace some of the fragments. I'll also support troop instants to replace some of the fragments.

 

[mucksterme]

I responded to a respons to a claim that there was no prize for "fighters" but there was one for "negotiatiors"

Actually I responded to the person who talked about having fighters by saying I thought it'd be nice to have instants for fighters other than just barracks.
You responded by insinuating that I was too stupid to know I could use timers to speed up training.
I never said I needed fighter instants, I just said if they are going to be there make them something I use regularly.
I get enough free barracks troops from AWs that I have plenty of cannon fodder already.

 

[sam767]

As a player with scrolls as a boosted good, it's becoming more and more difficult to balance my T2 goods as no one needs my scrolls.

Totally agree. One of my other cities is boosted in scrolls. And the poor guys boosted in Bismuth have to trade at a 20% discount.

 

[CJLN]

Yes. I agree.

 

[sam767]

My original focus was on replacing SFs with other rewards that were already in the spire or very similar to existing spire rewards. This is to make the change as easy as possible. I also did not want to "upgrade" the rewards (other than replacing SFs with anything is an upgrade for most players). I'm OK with even more time instants. I don't like troop instants because: 1. They are not already in the spire. 2. Only fighters use them - negotiators would love them as much as they love SFs. 3. Any troop instant might be too much of an upgrade to pass the spire design goals. This is the recommendation which is unchanged. It is also perfectly acceptable to me for the devs to acknowledge that we have too many SFs above gateway and let them decide on what to do. As a former dev, I'm recommending easy verses strategic. 367K SF
High Halls:
R1C3 replace 1250 with gum tree
R2C1 replace 500 with 30 min time instant (go from useless and annoying to slightly useful)
R2C3 replace 1250 with mana tree
R3C1 replace 500 with 30 min time instant
R3C4 replace 2000 with 5H
R4C1 replace 500 with 30 min time instant
R4C3 replace 1250 with mana tree
Laboratory:
Replace all 500 with 30 minute
Replace all 1000 with 1HR
Replace all 1250 with mana or gum tree
Replace all 2000 with 5H

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

My original focus was on replacing SFs with other rewards that were already in the spire or very similar to existing spire rewards. This is to make the change as easy as possible. I also did not want to "upgrade" the rewards (other than replacing SFs with anything is an upgrade for most players). I'm OK with even more time instants. I don't like troop instants because: 1. They are not already in the spire. 2. Only fighters use them - negotiators would love them as much as they love SFs. 3. Any troop instant might be too much of an upgrade to pass the spire design goals. This is the recommendation which is unchanged. It is also perfectly acceptable to me for the devs to acknowledge that we have too many SFs above gateway and let them decide on what to do. As a former dev, I'm recommending easy verses strategic. 367K SF
High Halls:
R1C3 replace 1250 with gum tree
R2C1 replace 500 with 30 min time instant (go from useless and annoying to slightly useful)
R2C3 replace 1250 with mana tree
R3C1 replace 500 with 30 min time instant
R3C4 replace 2000 with 5H
R4C1 replace 500 with 30 min time instant
R4C3 replace 1250 with mana tree
Laboratory:
Replace all 500 with 30 minute
Replace all 1000 with 1HR
Replace all 1250 with mana or gum tree
Replace all 2000 with 5H

This is way to much,
With just SF on the first stage we will be starved again of SF.

Also I rather have spellfragments than mana plants and gum trees I am already overflowing with these buildings compared to the other setbuildings.

 

[Darielle]

Totally agree. One of my other cities is boosted in scrolls. And the poor guys boosted in Bismuth have to trade at a 20% discount.

I wish you guys were neighbors in Sinya. I'm almost always out of scrolls and have tons of silk that few people want. I give a standard 5 percent discount on all my goods, so I manage, but it would be nice.

 

[Darielle]

This is way to much,
With just SF on the first stage we will be starved again of SF.

Also I rather have spellfragments than mana plants and gum trees I am already overflowing with these buildings compared to the other setbuildings.

Would we be starved if the whole first floor was mostly sfs, the second floor was mostly time instants, and the third floor was a combo of troop instants and special stuff? It seems to me that if they did that, more people would be spurred to get to the lab so they can start breaking out the great goodies, instead of losing heart that they'll probably just get more spell frags. We'd see more gold trophies that way, I think.

 

[sam767]

This is way to much,
With just SF on the first stage we will be starved again of SF.

Also I rather have spell fragments than mana plants and gum trees I am already overflowing with these buildings compared to the other set buildings.

The proposal keeps half of the SF rewards in the High Halls (2nd stage) while dropping 3 of 4 of the 500 SF rewards. So the average SF rewards in the High Halls will be larger while the total number of rewards will be reduced.

My goal was to recommend an easy change that was roughly agnostic to fighters and negotiators. While I love the new troop instants, they are not agnostic.

 

[mucksterme]

My goal was to recommend an easy change that was roughly agnostic to fighters and negotiators. While I love the new troop instants, they are not agnostic.

I've been trying but for the life of me I can't think of what word you actually wanted there.