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    Your Elvenar Team

Cancelled. After reading through it, this thread is irrecoverable.

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
I like to remind everyone how difficult it was to get enough fragments before we had the spire improved droprate, you guys asked for that change for a reason, you wanted spell fragments instead of coin rains and supply instants as those were not considered to be prizes. there was a reason you asked for that specific change, this change is the same thats debated now to be changed back (to coin rains and supply instants?)

Then next year we see the same complain again and we want spellfragments again?
Well I never asked for more fragments, but I get your point. Perhaps just re-evaluating what the prizes are for level 3 would be sufficient. Overall, I think stage 3 has some of the least useful prizes (aside from a slight increase in time boosts).

Either way, voting is already underway so we can't change the proposal. It looks like it's a popular idea though.
 

Deleted User - 1178646

Guest
Well I never asked for more fragments, but I get your point. Perhaps just re-evaluating what the prizes are for level 3 would be sufficient. Overall, I think stage 3 has some of the least useful prizes (aside from a slight increase in time boosts).

Either way, voting is already underway so we can't change the proposal. It looks like it's a popular idea though.
You personally might not but the player / forum base in general did ask for it massively. just check the beta feedback thread about the spire when it was introduced, coin rains and supply was not considered a prize and spell fragments came from the players there themselves as a suggestion.

Off course this is a popular idea, the forum community in general are the more die hard player, many who have reached the end stage of the game as the are both active and playing for a while.
But the playerbase is much wider than the forum playerbase, I already can see the complaints from those that are now staying silent.
But when they get stuck in events because they can't seem to get the vapor for a quest, we see that complaint already but then related to time, add to that the relation of no spell fragments. and it takes 6 more days for the next research to be completed.

Thats the moment when these "younger players" come to the forums to complain, and we are back to square one.
 

Deleted User - 4646370

Guest
For me the most important thing that should be fixed in Spire rewards is that theyare not scaled on difficulty. Having encounter 1 of stage 3 giving the same reward as encounter 1 of stage 1 is a nonsense.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I'm in Orcs and I have about 25K spell fragments. I started playing the spire a couple of months ago and I craft almost every cycle. I'm not an end gamer, but even I don't want to see spell fragments in the Laboratory. That's a good prize for the first floor, not the third. By all means, let the people who never go to the lab have spell fragments. Considering how tough the fights/negotiations are on the third floor, spell fragments are not a prize; they're more like a consolation prize. Anything else is better than they are. How about troop instants as a chest prize on the third level?
 

Crow Last Elf

Well-Known Member
I think @Darielle has probably identified the tipping point. If you regularly finish the second floor, that is when you start accumulating far too many spell fragments. That seems to be the experience in my fs and we are all around chpts. 6 to 10.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I think @Darielle has probably identified the tipping point. If you regularly finish the second floor, that is when you start accumulating far too many spell fragments. That seems to be the experience in my fs and we are all around chpts. 6 to 10.
It's not so easily calculated. I craft every chance I get, frequently use timers, and could stop doing the spire today and probably never run out of fragments, because I have multiple Moonstone library sets deployed, which generate over 5000 fragments per day.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I think @Darielle has probably identified the tipping point. If you regularly finish the second floor, that is when you start accumulating far too many spell fragments. That seems to be the experience in my fs and we are all around chpts. 6 to 10.

But the prize from each chest is random, not a guarantee. I have definitely had runs in the Spire where I complete a floor without a single spell fragment prize from a chest. And other times, like other players, I get the spell fragments from every chest. My chapter 16 city has 530k spell fragments and most of those came from disenchanting, not from the Spire.

But the one thing I agree with is that since, most players who do the third floor regularly are advanced enough that spell fragment prizes from any of those 16 chests is useless. Inno want more people to try to get to the top? Then they need to make the random prizes on the third floor worth it. I almost never do any of the third floor any more, unless it will make a difference in the team prizes won.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
As Enevhar says, the idea is about making the Spire more interesting. The idea doesn't make anything particularly easier, but does provide extra bait, making it more interesting for people who have lots of fragments, or specifically want the alternate prizes suggested. I think that makes it a useful modification. The devil will be in the details.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
@Mykan I was looking around for an actual prize list per chest and their percentage chances, to list here the max possible fragments per run, and looked at the "guest column" you wrote about the Spire for elvengems.com and realized it was for the original version of the Spire, before they shifted the prizes around and added the team rewards. You may want to write an update for that and get them to swap the new version for the old. Otherwise people looking for info on the Spire may see the old one and wonder how you got so much stuff wrong. lol

Edit: looked at the official Wiki for a prize list and saw that Inno is outright lying to us about the reward chests. Here is what it says on the Wiki:

Each Encounter solved opens a chest with a chance to win one of a number of rewards. The value of rewards increases as the Adventurer progresses through the maps of each level.
 
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Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
It's not so easily calculated. I craft every chance I get, frequently use timers, and could stop doing the spire today and probably never run out of fragments, because I have multiple Moonstone library sets deployed, which generate over 5000 fragments per day.
Oh, don't get me started on the Moonstone set. Haha, I have so many pieces, I could fill half my city, but I don't need the fragments and I'm scroll-boosted so I thought it was useless. I'm always bummed when the 3rd level boss gives me another piece to it. I would love for this to be changed up sometime, but I don't know how this would affect players actually looking to acquire it. People seem to like the set.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I would love for this to be changed up sometime, but I don't know how this would affect players actually looking to acquire it. People seem to like the set.
I'd like to see it be boosted plus one. Even better would be your boosted. Then if you overproduce and ruin the economy, it's your own fault.

Right now, I'm producing over 100,000 scrolls a day, and it's not my boost.
 

Deleted User - 1178646

Guest
But the one thing I agree with is that since, most players who do the third floor regularly are advanced enough that spell fragment prizes from any of those 16 chests is useless. Inno want more people to try to get to the top? Then they need to make the random prizes on the third floor worth it. I almost never do any of the third floor any more, unless it will make a difference in the team prizes won.

The real prize is in the fellowship part, not in those individual chests, I can agree with your vieuw if you ignore fellowship prizes, but when you factor in the fellowship ones, it becomes a whole different game.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
The real prize is in the fellowship part, not in those individual chests, I can agree with your vieuw if you ignore fellowship prizes, but when you factor in the fellowship ones, it becomes a whole different game.

Depends on your fellowship. The Spire is not a priority in the fellowship I am in and we have never gotten the team prize from finishing the second floor.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I did not reread through all the posts, so this may already be buried in here somewhere, but I looked at the max amount of spell fragments you can get if you complete the Spire and get fragments from every chest they are in, and that total is 39,000 combined from 39 chests. But you would have to be seriously unlucky to do that, since the higher the amount from a chest, the lower the chance you will get it.
 

Deleted User - 1178646

Guest
I did not reread through all the posts, so this may already be buried in here somewhere, but I looked at the max amount of spell fragments you can get if you complete the Spire and get fragments from every chest they are in, and that total is 39,000 combined from 39 chests. But you would have to be seriously unlucky to do that, since the higher the amount from a chest, the lower the chance you will get it.

The average is 4900 per level per week. so with 2 levels you can craft ~2-3 items (1400 spell fragments per day to spend) a day which coresponds with owning a level 5 academy or some library sets for enough catalists.

Depends on your fellowship. The Spire is not a priority in the fellowship I am in and we have never gotten the team prize from finishing the second floor.

This is not the problem of the spire but a choice of your own, if you are more ambitious find another fellowship.
If yuo do not want to leave them then accept lesser prizes.

The moment the prizes of the 3rd round are even for you "good enough" then the spire becommes even better than it already is.
I dont find another place where I can get free premium builings, hoard in hundreds of diamons every week, and get a insane tournament boost from both combat buildings and time boosters.

... and you want even more?

This will be the same as tournaments KP / blueprints over time, it takes time for people to realise how good something is.
And the spire is good, I don't care if they gave me 1 trillion spellfragments in the tower als long as all the other prizes stay the same.

It's like claiming the tournaments suck because I already have 4000+ supply and neigbourly help spells. and 3000+ productions.
Like the tournaments in time it will tare some fellowships apart and create new fellowships and friends with a similar vision,

I already noticed a slight change as people finally start to move on to fellowships that do get better results in the spire and therefore more timeboosters and diamonds.
 
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Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Depends on your fellowship. The Spire is not a priority in the fellowship I am in and we have never gotten the team prize from finishing the second floor.
My fellowship finishes the second floor but never the third, not even the first prize after the 75 diamonds. So there's not a whole lot to pull me into the lab, especially knowing how darn expensive it will be to cater (and I'd never fight in the lab; I'm not strong enough). If there were fewer sfs and more troop instants, I would be more inclined to do the third floor. But just for the heck of it, I did finish the spire for the first time today. I wound up spending 25 diamonds on the final big guy and got a 25 percent portal profit for the effort. To me it was okay ... not what I was hoping for but I was just glad to finish it for the first time, just to say I had done it. My team didn't need the points; they weren't going to get beyond silver level anyway, but it was just a personal goal.

Now that I've done it, I doubt that I'll do it again unless Inno makes it worth my while. I'm sure others in the fs might feel the same way. Why not have sfs in the first level, time instants in the second, and troop instants in the third, or some such thing, in addition to the chances for the rare items? Then you'd always feel like you were progressing instead of just mirroring your first or second level gains (for much more expense).

As far as the Moonstone Libraries go, I've only been playing 2 months or so, and I've earned 6 or 7 of the libraries and multiples of everything else. Why not make the rare prizes level specific, like the Moonstone set on level two and the Dwarven Armorers on level three? Then you wouldn't feel so let down if you're working hard on level three and just get the same old same old Moonstones or spell fragments. My friend wants a Moonstone library so I don't propose you do less of them ... just make them level specific to spice up the variety on the different levels. That would make it much more interesting. Level three is HARD to do ... give us some incentive to do it and we'll knock ourselves out trying, lol.
 

Deleted User - 1178646

Guest
My fellowship finishes the second floor but never the third, not even the first prize after the 75 diamonds. So there's not a whole lot to pull me into the lab, especially knowing how darn expensive it will be to cater (and I'd never fight in the lab; I'm not strong enough). If there were fewer sfs and more troop instants, I would be more inclined to do the third floor. But just for the heck of it, I did finish the spire for the first time today. I wound up spending 25 diamonds on the final big guy and got a 25 percent portal profit for the effort. To me it was okay ... not what I was hoping for but I was just glad to finish it for the first time, just to say I had done it. My team didn't need the points; they weren't going to get beyond silver level anyway, but it was just a personal goal.

Now that I've done it, I doubt that I'll do it again unless Inno makes it worth my while. I'm sure others in the fs might feel the same way. Why not have sfs in the first level, time instants in the second, and troop instants in the third, or some such thing, in addition to the chances for the rare items? Then you'd always feel like you were progressing instead of just mirroring your first or second level gains (for much more expense).

As far as the Moonstone Libraries go, I've only been playing 2 months or so, and I've earned 6 or 7 of the libraries and multiples of everything else. Why not make the rare prizes level specific, like the Moonstone set on level two and the Dwarven Armorers on level three? Then you wouldn't feel so let down if you're working hard on level three and just get the same old same old Moonstones or spell fragments. My friend wants a Moonstone library so I don't propose you do less of them ... just make them level specific to spice up the variety on the different levels. That would make it much more interesting. Level three is HARD to do ... give us some incentive to do it and we'll knock ourselves out trying, lol.

Getting "more" prizes ain't realistic, so if "gradual" rewards would be introduced it would be the same as the diamond modification we had need before. in essense prizes will be taken away from the first half of the tower and added to the latter half.

In essence you get less prizes then now unless you also doe the last part,
Is that what you are aiming for? less prizes for beginners / less active players?

btw the dwarven armourer is for many players a reason to play the spire limiting it's aviablility (and therefore possibility) to the last stage would result in winning this item less times. I love the fact that many of these prizes are also in the random chests.

If you would like to improve the base rewards then it should be transferred from the fellowship reward to the main rewards and this makes the fellowship effort less interesting.
Whatever change you want to make you have to understand that many others will loose the opportunity as a result. prizes do not get magically better they get shuffled around instead.

If your ambitions are bigger than the fellowship result, then you need to find another fellowship with a similar mindset.
There are some tricks you can employ in the last stage of the spire to "guarantee gold" to get everyone moving towards that final goal initially before it becomes naturally, they left that exploit open, are aware of it but seemingly also fine with it, maybe for this reason.
But if your fellowship ain't even getting close to that result then it's pointless to even try, or talking about it.

If you can rally all players to do at least 2 levels, a goal thats within reach of many many many players with ease, then you are already at the stage where you unlock all but the last fellowship reward. thats where you can start considering making the jump. to the last chest as it opens the route for the more active players to already advance since more prizes are guaranteed.

The spire is a fellowship achievement, if your fellowship lacks any ambition, then try to change there minds or find a better one.
If I am not mistaken not so long ago you barely played 1 level because of the same mindset. but we changed it by conversing with you on the forum. (my apology if I am mistaken)

When the spire fellowship part came out I build a document with the name "how to play the spire for free" this rallied my members to try it and liking it, this initial result of success beyond my expectation led to the result than now we do het gold every week. even before the trophies.
Some people grumble a bit when things arent going there way (sometimes negotiating just sucks with 10 fails in a row), but no one wants to miss the rewards, they are simply too good, so even while saying "not again next week", they still go to the top on there own accord.

So instead of focussing on what is NOT good, you might want to focus about the amazing aspects of the tower rewards, this will give much more motivation to people and positive thingking is a lot more fun than negative thinking.
 

mucksterme

Oh Wise One
So we were talking about fragments in chat today, I looked and I currently have 208K lol
And who knows how many I could add if I got rid of a couple pages of buildings I'll never use

But we do have to remember, as others have noted, that smaller cities need the help from the spire.


but I don't need the fragments and I'm scroll-boosted

Ash beat me to it but I'll repeat it.
I wish they would make it boost +1 or random boost + 1 or + 2

The Spire is not a priority in the fellowship

My fs just successfully completed our 4th or 5th gold push
and we've been silver all the other weeks since they started keeping track
We also do ten tourny chests every week
Every FS has different priorities.
btw we don't even have requirements for Spire or FA's. It's just that we've managed to put together 25 like minded people.



I have already skipped something I wanted in crafting

Well that's just Crazy talk
 
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