Fellowship-based Tournaments

[DeletedUser5251]

I WANT MY 40 kp back.

Yes, We Want Our 40KP Back!

and throw in a mule, while you're at it.

 

[DeletedUser3696]

Most advanced players are at 700% for their boosts already, or at least I think they would be unless they are totally against military/tournaments.

I am currently participating in all tournaments, but I have 2 levels of initiative. If the tournament isn't favourable to my troops I usually do about 3-4 provinces for the first checkpoint. However, if it's very favourable for my troops like the current one, then I go about 10 provinces and will probably go about 6 complete and the other 4 to the 4th or 5th stage and go for the bonus ranking points. The relics aren't super useful since I hardly ever use any spells and only create them for events. I've used the odd extra kp spell when I know I'll be offline and I use the extra supplies spell from time to time. I've never found a need to use the culture visit boost spell and will only use the goods spell if I've been away and set my factories to 1 or 2 day production.

 

[SoggyShorts]

So much worrying in this thread.
1. The 40 KP spent - kinda minor imo, you paid 40 KP to have access to the tournaments for how many weeks(months?) early
2. People may resent non-contributing FS members - maybe, but how many check points are you reaching with the help of your inactive gold mines right now?
3. Big players will benefit more - I'm not so sure, don't players with max boost have LESS incentive to do tournaments than those who need the relics?
4. Top FS will be elitist - Aren't they kinda already? I mean will a new player today ever be in the #1 FS without opening their wallet really wide?

 

[DeletedUser5800]

2. People may resent non-contributing FS members - maybe, but how many check points are you reaching with the help of your inactive gold mines right now?

I think it would have been better to junk the checkpoint system and let it be simplified down to an independent 'dog eat dog' system where you get what you get(maybe add some extra gets )... it may well still have just ended up a CC war but at least it wouldn't involve the whole FS. Of course from a developer standpoint I can see why you want too push more people in... and I don't even fault the logic, but as a humble gamer what I liked about the tournament was the lack of cooperation in that one particular aspect of the game... the cooperation factor already being the trader hopping a bit more when a few people have gone all in. And there is yet another aspect to be thought about, when more get pushed further then more shortages will arise and that will affect a lot more. I know it seems like I'm crying doom and I'm sure it will settle and be less dramatic but there will be serious ripples with lasting consequences and, at least from where I stand, it seems unnecessary to create them.

 

[DeletedUser3297]

I think this is going to be fun for all fellowships. If you have an active fellowship AND you produce boost-only, your fellowship should have a massive arsenal of goods to cater with. If you work together as a team, you can always be on top. We are already making the preparations in one of my fellowships for this. We can't wait

And, we are also sharing battle strategies to help us progress through the current tournaments. So we will fight until the battles are unwinnable.

So, if you have an active fellowship that knows how to play the game, you should be fine..

 

[Mykan]

Most advanced players are at 700% for their boosts already, or at least I think they would be unless they are totally against military/tournaments.

Even those catering should be close to this. Depends on interest in tournaments mainly.

So much worrying in this thread.
1. The 40 KP spent - kinda minor imo, you paid 40 KP to have access to the tournaments for how many weeks(months?) early
2. People may resent non-contributing FS members - maybe, but how many check points are you reaching with the help of your inactive gold mines right now?
3. Big players will benefit more - I'm not so sure, don't players with max boost have LESS incentive to do tournaments than those who need the relics?
4. Top FS will be elitist - Aren't they kinda already? I mean will a new player today ever be in the #1 FS without opening their wallet really wide?

1. Not super stressed on this but man it would be nice for them back or some type of compensation even if small.
2. The whole checkpoint thing was badly in need of review in relation to the overall mechanics. Lets hope this will occur now. Was very rare to see the 3rd checkpoint reached let alone the last one which I never saw get even close to even in worlds with active neighbors. I think the 16hr timer is a bigger factor of checkpoint achievement then player participation but both are key.
3. Again depends on interest in tournaments. For my towns maxed out at 700% I am finding a greater need to do tournaments as the focus has moved from increasing boosts to maximizing spell production. Therefore instead of 3/9 tournaments to work hard in it is now 6/9.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

Sorry I've been away. What are the Magic Residences and workshops. I can't seem to find them in the Wiki

 

[DeletedUser3696]

I think this is going to be fun for all fellowships. If you have an active fellowship AND you produce boost-only, your fellowship should have a massive arsenal of goods to cater with. If you work together as a team, you can always be on top. We are already making the preparations in one of my fellowships for this. We can't wait

And, we are also sharing battle strategies to help us progress through the current tournaments. So we will fight until the battles are unwinnable.

So, if you have an active fellowship that knows how to play the game, you should be fine..

Just from this tournament I'm being drained of my troops faster than I'll be able to train them for the next tournament and I'm now in the 4th stage and need to cater the odd battle - this is expensive.
Add up these costs and the rewards better be worth it. For most 25 player FSs, about 10 will do 2/3s of the work/effort/pts/whatever they measure. The other 15 will chip in and get all the rewards for minimal investment.
I just see more player vs. player division and resentment as a result. Maybe I'm wrong, but many fellowships put in a minimum visit per week to try and keep things fair and some players can't even manage that.
If they have a FS scoreboard then it will show who doesn't pull their weight, if there isn't a scoreboard then players may not mind as they won't know who is and who isn't pitching in.

I look forward to seeing it, but I will not hold my breath that it's more beneficial than the current system. I may have to start looping quests to get my supplies that I used to get from visits.

 

[DeletedUser3297]

You need a better fellowship then.. The one I am in is ranked #4 and we all visit daily. It's the only fellowship that I have ever been in where I see 24 gold hand. plus the chat always has 100+ messages in it

We will do very well in the tournaments, I assure you

 

[DeletedUser5800]

You need a better fellowship then..

That was my point, there are a lot of players that are currently happy with their fellowship based on other factors but will now need to find a better one, so the top will become more competitive and the middle down will have more trouble than ever, good for the dev's in the short term and even good for the top with more going on and more people grinding harder against each other, which I'll admit would be fun in it's own way for those that are into that... but a lot of good middle casual spenders are going to get pushed out and from the bottom looking up it will just seem impossible to the point of quitting right away... it just seems like over the long term those of us that are already hooked (and already in the tournaments anyway)will just be running around each other in circles and very rarely will anyone new make it into that circle which is not a sustainable path and not fun for very long. It's not going to be deal breaker for me as I am indeed already hooked, I'll adjust, at least for a while... until the top 10 FS's get tired of looking at each other and the whole thing slowly unwinds... messes up my ten year plan. LOL

 

[SoggyShorts]

there are a lot of players that are currently happy with their fellowship based on other factors but will now need to find a better one

I don't see why. Unless the new tournament rewards are really low or really hard to get, it should be an improvement even in a low-activity fellowship.
My fellowships aren't hard core when it comes to tournaments, but they are infinitely more active than the abandoned cities that I have on my current tournament team.

 

[DeletedUser5800]

I don't see why.

Because right now it's not that cool, but that's universal no matter what FS you're in, you do it because you want to snag a few relics or more likely rank points, or just like extra battles because your scout is slow and the armies are big, or like to mingle on the board in PVP fashion with some names not in your FS, an arena of sorts where people from all about can butt heads, but it seems this will make it matter enough for a lot of those few to join together. Example: If 3 people currently do them than at least 2 are probably at the top of those middle FS's so they all leave and get together leaving say 12 FS's falling down the board with their most helpful people gone and a shrinking pool of newbs to recruit from(which is near impossible now anyway), this brings about 5 new FS's and now 60 FS's in this hypothetical lurch, half of those one person that was trying just stop trying and maybe they get balanced by the few now encouraged to jump in... I don't see how this improves numbers, just encourages a shifting around with ill side affects. The top will do it anyway just like they do now and the majority still won't care anyway but they will about the side effects after a few months pass and their FS's never recover. Seems like a heavy gamble just to get blueprints in the game when you could stop the reliance factor altogether, add some better rewards to the leaderboard and be done with it. Add blueprints to the top 5 rank rewards and leave FS's to their happy oblivion. Easier to code and with the same result, no side effects. This a worst case scenario I'll grant you, but I've seen it happen just like this before, maybe that has jaded me... but I'll bet it's not best case either, somewhere in between, accomplishing nothing really but unnecessary moving around and drama.
Conclusion: I didn't intend this to turn into this much of a nerd rant so I'll drop the matter I have said everything I have to say and more and to much even and I hope I am way off and it's awesome somehow.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Lord Draconian
Nah, I still don't see that happening much if at all.
Your main concern seems to be that The one good player in a fellowship will leave, and that will break the FS.
1. If a single player is all that holds the FS together, that's a bad sign on it's own.
2. If that benevolent uber player really cared about rankings he would be in a bigger FS already.

Adding blueprints to the top 5 rank rewards is terrible. There is a HUGE gap from top 10-15 (where I finish) and the top 5. Also it would effectively eliminate free players or newer players from ever getting blueprints. How would a new player starting today ever beat the top 5 players on his server with their 2 year head start?

I for one think the upsides of this change vastly outweigh any minor downsides that may or may not occur.

 

[DeletedUser5800]

How would a new player starting today ever beat the top 5 players on his server with their 2 year head start?

$$$ like it will be anyway but just they would gain the reward.

 

[SoggyShorts]

$$$ like it will be anyway but just they would gain the reward.

Right so blue prints would only be for big spenders. Not a fan of that idea. Keeping it fellowship based and not competing with other players at all is awesome imo.

What we aren't considering is that maybe the top checkpoint is reachable without an uber FS, maybe an average one can achieve it-- if that's the case there'd be no reason for top players to seek "better" groups.

 

[DeletedUser5800]

What we aren't considering is that maybe the top checkpoint is reachable without an uber FS, maybe an average one can achieve it-- if that's the case there'd be no reason for top players to seek "better" groups.

I hope that is the case and it is indeed a non issue and I further hope it's just blueprints and I don't care anyway... but my gut feeling is it's the framework for FS events and better more unreachable prizes. I really want to be wrong about that.

 

[DeletedUser3696]

@Lord Draconian
Nah, I still don't see that happening much if at all.
Your main concern seems to be that The one good player in a fellowship will leave, and that will break the FS.
1. If a single player is all that holds the FS together, that's a bad sign on it's own.
2. If that benevolent uber player really cared about rankings he would be in a bigger FS already.

Adding blueprints to the top 5 rank rewards is terrible. There is a HUGE gap from top 10-15 (where I finish) and the top 5. Also it would effectively eliminate free players or newer players from ever getting blueprints. How would a new player starting today ever beat the top 5 players on his server with their 2 year head start?

I for one think the upsides of this change vastly outweigh any minor downsides that may or may not occur.

I'll disagree. I can play it one of two ways.

The first is to stop sinking resources into tournaments since my FS won't be a top one.
The second is to leave my FS and move to a more competitive one.

This is all on the assumption that hitting the 10 checkpoints won't be super easy. If it's super easy than that will be stupid too, as I like a challenge. But often in these online games you cannot rely too much on other players.

Players in this game have proven they are very competitive and will push the boundaries of the game parameters. This change to tournaments will be no different. If the rewards are worth pursuing than top players will have to make sure they get them. If the rewards aren't worth it, then what is the point of changing things?

A balance would be to run a FS tournament once every 4 weeks with the other 3 being just like they are now.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I suppose I can never quite look at it from a ranking/PvP perspective.
I'm still not understanding what benefit you would get from moving to a better guild.
A few relics? Blueprints? I suppose if you "chase rank" then blueprints could save you some RL$

I didn't read anywhere that your fellowship would be ranked against other fellowships with the top ones getting an increase to their player score(and thus their overall ranking) are we assuming this is the case?

 

[DeletedUser3640]

3. Big players will benefit more - I'm not so sure, don't players with max boost have LESS incentive to do tournaments than those who need the relics?
4. Top FS will be elitist - Aren't they kinda already? I mean will a new player today ever be in the #1 FS without opening their wallet really wide?

3. That's not the case. "Big players" are the ones who grind tournaments the most (at least on Elcysandir), guess they don't care about their maxed out boosts.
4. Oh, so let's push top fellowships (and players) even further. That's a great idea! *sarcasm*

_________________

First of all, blueprints are needed even for starting chapters like lvl 1 magic residences and workshops, so please, everyone, stop saying that there's some kind of justification that only top FS will be able to get them (granted, we don't know that for sure, but I doubt that Inno will give blueprints easily).

Second, there should be a secondary reward which should be just as appealing to non-paying players as blueprints are for the paying ones. Hopefully nobody needs an explanation why.

And finally, to balance things out, the "blueprint" checkpoint should be reachable based on activity in the fellowships, and not on the strenght of their members. This can be done in a multiple ways, but will require an overhaul of tournament system.

 

[SoggyShorts]

3. That's not the case. "Big players" are the ones who grind tournaments the most (at least on Elcysandir), guess they don't care about their maxed out boosts.

I guess I've made some false assumptions. I'm trying, but I just can't put myself in a mindset of caring about rank. Clearly there is more strategy involved than just outspending the guy next to you.