New Player Combat Unbalanced

[DeletedUser]

I just started playing. I got my squads to level 3 increase - size 15 each.
I went to battle with four mages of 7 each. I used my only troop types, Axe and Xbow, BOTH supposed to have advantages against mages.
A squad of 7 mages hits one of my xbows (with defense bonus vs. mages) and kills 7 or 8 at ONE shot. Not to mention the neg buff they give me.
I hit back with a full xbow squad of 15 and kill ONE mage!
I got slaughtered!
Balance anyone????!!!!

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Sorry to hear this. But you might do well to read the discussions that are going on about the battlesystem
Here is one, but there are more : https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index....e-redesign-discussion.3759/page-21#post-34150

Many players on all levels have trouble with the battles now

 

[DeletedUser]

Sorry to hear this. But you might do well to read the discussions that are going on about the battlesystem
Here is one, but there are more : https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index....e-redesign-discussion.3759/page-21#post-34150

Many players on all levels have trouble with the battles now

Thank you for the reply. I did read many posts about the battle problems.
They really need to balance it. I may do some collecting and all, but I will set this game aside until battles are reasonable. I like a combat challenge, but it is really bad now.

 

[DeletedUser2963]

Your third squad size increase is in chapter one. In the provinces you hit groups of 4 in ring three. There is nothing in the game that explains this. But here is the set up.....

At the end of each chapter there is a chest. The number of provinces you need to get into the next chapter is on the chest. If you go beyond that number your fights will become increasingly unbalanced.

Now to make it more confusing - The provinces are laid out in a grid, the grid is not marked in any way. It is a hex with the points up and down. To keep the battle balanced you need to stay inside certain rings of the hex. If you so much as scout outside this unmarked, unexplained, invisible line, you will face larger than expected troop numbers. There is really no way to know what ring you are in without scouting or counting out from your city every time you want to scout.

Once you open a chest for a chapter, there is an advanced scouting tech under the chest. Once you research that, the troop count in every un-scouted province will be reduced.

So to summarize- your are facing unbalanced fights because you crossed and invisible line prior to opening the scout tech no one told you you needed to balance the fight. Or perhaps you simply did not see or notice that the provinces are laid out in hex rings. Its not like they are marked or anything.

You have two choices, you can stop scouting and negotiate thru what you currently have open. If you do this you will be able to open up and clear whatever is left of ring 3 and 4 near the end of chapter 2. Or you can just go full trader route and keep negotiating out. If you do that you will expand faster but you will never have a balanced province fight.

It is completely ridiculous that this is not being put in game for new players, tutorials or something.....they have NO way of knowing this stuff!!! It is ruining the game for some of them.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

@Iyapo

True and well stated.
But in my eyes it is completely ridiculous to have so much of the tech related to battle and have so many buildings and wonders related to battle, making it impossible to sell the barracks because it is a 'core-building' and then all of a sudden make it impossible for players to actually win any battles if they are willing to spend time on the game.

But I encountered a like problem much later in the game (like ring 14). My cerberus 2 units are supposed to have a great attackbonus and defense bonus against mage-units. However, when I send them in, they do hardly any damage, then get DECIMATED by a single hit from those mage-units.
However, the other way around the bonus seems to be applied in ful. My mage-unit will hit a cerberus and do almost nothing, then be completely destroyed when their attack comes.
Same goes for my elite archers.

So part of the 'balancing' in the system seems to work out that player units are by definition doing much less damage than the AI units do, even considering the difference in size.

 

[DeletedUser1349]

If you so much as scout outside this unmarked, unexplained, invisible line, you will face larger than expected troop numbers.

Wait what? I have read something like this several times now. Clarification please! Are you saying it is just the scouting that increases enemy squad size and not fighting above our level (completed provinces)? OMG I have been continuing to scout!

 

[DeletedUser2963]

When you research the Advanced Scout Tech at the end of each chapter, it reduces the number of enemy troops in every single UN-SCOUTED province. Once a province has been scouted the enemy squad size is fixed.

You will see a huge difference in squad size between provinces that you open up before and after researching the Advanced Scout Tech. But again, this is not explained anywhere in the game. There is absolutely no way for anyone to know this unless they are forum junkies.

 

[DeletedUser1349]

Does this work the same way for negotiating costs? I have rarely negotiated, but it looks like that is the only option left to me.

 

[DeletedUser]

What???!!!!
This is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard for a game. AND to not even warn anyone. I have scouted everything I could so I could help surrounding players - a feature that is promoted - and now I find out I will never be able to win battles.

Exactly what lyapo said is happening to him is what I experienced and explained in my first post.

I will definitely NOT put any money into this game until it is rectified.
Dralmar

 

[qaccy]

What???!!!!
This is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard for a game. AND to not even warn anyone. I have scouted everything I could so I could help surrounding players - a feature that is promoted - and now I find out I will never be able to win battles.

Exactly what lyapo said is happening to him is what I experienced and explained in my first post.

I will definitely NOT put any money into this game until it is rectified.
Dralmar

It rectifies itself over time. You just have to wait until you reach a point where you actually need to obtain more provinces in order to unlock a chapter and not go very much beyond that number.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

Don't feel bad I am just starting chapter 8 and have had to cater all provinces since they broke the battle system, that's why you can decline task like fight and win 3 encounters. These use to be mandatory.

And waiting too you have too, lol that would be a drastic mistake I had to have 160 provinces to start Chapter 8 Orcs, I had 222 complete needed space to grow my city. If you do bare minimum requirements you soon run out of space. But it's your choice to go either way. I have only said what I have done.

 

[DeletedUser2963]

But in my eyes it is completely ridiculous to have so much of the tech related to battle and have so many buildings and wonders related to battle, making it impossible to sell the barracks because it is a 'core-building' and then all of a sudden make it impossible for players to actually win any battles if they are willing to spend time on the game.

Players can win Dhurrin. Everyone who stays inside the "goldilocks zone" can and does win. My point and my problem is that there is absolutely NOTHING in the game that explains any of that to new players. Inno needs to put in a guide or a tutorial or a quest line that explains all off this.

But I encountered a like problem much later in the game (like ring 14). My cerberus 2 units are supposed to have a great attackbonus and defense bonus against mage-units. However, when I send them in, they do hardly any damage, then get DECIMATED by a single hit from those mage-units.

This is not the same issue. This is a valid issue but its not the one I was addressing.

So part of the 'balancing' in the system seems to work out that player units are by definition doing much less damage than the AI units do, even considering the difference in size.

New players have no warning at all about this. Inno needs to either lessen the gradient, put in a hard wall, or EXPLAIN this in game.

It rectifies itself over time. You just have to wait until you reach a point where you actually need to obtain more provinces in order to unlock a chapter and not go very much beyond that number.

Yes you are right, it will rectify itself. It should not have happened as a surprise.
I like the battle up dates. I am having great fun. I am in the goldilocks zone. New players should be told what that is and how to stay in it....if they then choose to cater out further at least they will do it knowingly and by choice. Not by simply playing the game.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

Yes you are right, it will rectify itself. It should not have happened as a surprise.
I like the battle up dates. I am having great fun. I am in the goldilocks zone. New players should be told what that is and how to stay in it....if they then choose to cater out further at least they will do it knowingly and by choice. Not by simply playing the game.

Staying in that zone is fine, but you will find that you will run out of space, population, and goods all too quickly because of the lack of space necessary to grow your city.

After all its a city builder game, not a village builder one.

I designed mine too be able to fight or cater provinces. Which is a good balance 5 tier 3 , 5 tier 2 and 8 tier 1's

 

[DeletedUser2963]

Staying in that zone is fine, but you will find that you will run out of space, population, and goods all too quickly because of the lack of space necessary to grow your city.

Not really, Its all about balance... people in the goldilocks zone suffer few troop losses. To stay in it you train troops thru the chapter and then near the end of the chapter you blow through the provinces you need to conquer with the stockpiled troops. The influx of kp will be used on the last few techs on the tree.

It is true that I will have fewer expansions than a person who caters fights, but I also need less room. People who cater fights will run into goods problems unless they use the extra space for manufactories they will also need more warehouses to run the manufactories, and more houses to supply population.

My main city I did both before the update. I am going to change that soon. With the limited expansions, I have decided to go the fight it all route...It will take up less room. Or....maybe full fighter in my chp 2 city, and full trader in my chp6....

 

[DeletedUser3312]

lyapo is a successful fighter. It is something she greatly enjoys and researches to find what works. I admire her for the fortitude and sharing her many tips. Another good fighter is Kayleegirl. Both spend a great deal of time figuring out the various strengths and weaknesses. Do they always win? no. But they learn and continue on. If you want to fight, read their posts and the many tips they provide. Others also provide great information. I am a cater person. However, I read the posts and I know that in Winyandor I am in Dwarves and cannot negotiate again until I get to Orcs as I need to grow orcs to trade. And battles are so greatly skewed against me that I get annihilated just standing on the turf of a battlefield lol. This is because Inno decided that people needed to slow down and so they upped the amounts of kp needed in techs, they made fighting impossible if you scouted out of the unmarked hex ring (which is very easy to do as you can't see where you are in which ring on the WM) and once you do scout outside of the unmarked ring ALL of your scouting costs will soar and will not go down until you are in a chapter where you still need to scout before you can enter the next chapter. It is a bit confusing for sure and although it is possible to win battles in the tournaments for the first couple of rounds, the WM battles are a totally different critter. The key thing is to, as Lyapo said, stay within the province rings and avoid scouting out past them.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

It is true that I will have fewer expansions than a person who caters fights, but I also need less room. People who cater fights will run into goods problems unless they use the extra space for manufactories they will also need more warehouses to run the manufactories, and more houses to supply population.

And by doing so a much lower score than one who follows a catering method, but that's everyone own decision.

I prefer to have a city not a village.

 

[DeletedUser3312]

And by doing so a much lower score than one who follows a catering method, but that's everyone own decision.

True, and rank is important to a lot of people. For me, not so much. It's fun to have a friendly competition in a FS smiles but not important. For me, a caterer, I do need that space as I have to have more factories and as such more houses and culture which take up a lot of space. It's just how each of us decide we want to play.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

I totally agree

 

[DeletedUser2963]

@Jewess thank you for the complement honestly I just send everyone to Mykan's Guide

 

[DeletedUser3312]

Ya Mykan has awesome information as well.