Questions About Net Zero KP Swap Method

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I've read the explanations for net zero, and frankly, I like the AW threads better. It would be a nightmare to me if I had to wait hours for someone to fill my chests so I could upgrade. When you have zero incentive except runes, and the high cost of a 10 or 20 chest left, you may wait hours for someone to want to donate. It's a psychological thing; yes they'll get their kp back but if they don't need runes, what's the incentive? But you never have a problem finding people in chat who will rush to put one pt on a chest and getting 5 back. When an owner is ready to upgrade, those last chests fill up quickly, but the ones who donated from the AW threads still get the higher chests because they put more on it. The owner can upgrade when they want to, not when someone's on who will do that charity despite not gaining benefit.

I often put 50 kp on another person's wonder and then find that I only earned the 10kp chest. So what? I got my 50 kp back in the AW threads, plus the additional10kp. Where's the loss?

Hey Darrielle, if you have good fellows you should not way for hours.
I can give you one example where wonder threads are a pain in the ass.

You want to update, but nobody is picking up your threads. so it's kinda the same issue.

You just earned a $h1tload of KP in either tournament or events and you are waiting on people to pick up your threads. you're stuck but cannot offload them in wonderthreads and as a result you are forced to place them in your own wonders or in that wonder you already invested 400 points in and are 300+ points ahead of your fellows. (or have a swap buddy with a special out of the swap thread arrangement)
Netzero allows you to dump as many KP as you want in your wonders without any restrictions because you need to wait on your fellows, and you alwys get a 20% roi.

You always get ~20% Roi on all your investments. for example small contributors often get nothing in a swap system. or they need to target very specific wonders and hunt those to get at least some Roi. if your fellowship dumps 100-200kp in swap threads every week and you can only spend 40 points the chance for you to ever get anything back is near zero unless you specifically target 1 wonder, then you maybe get something back.
If you can only post 5-10 points in each wonder you get pretty much never something back.

Netzero also rewards these smaller fry to get a 20% return on investment.

 

[SoggyShorts]

It would be a nightmare to me if I had to wait hours for someone to fill my chests so I could upgrade.

When you do round 2 in the tournament and/or dump all of your event currency trying for the daily how do you move 200+ KP?
Hours of using the 5 KP, 10 KP, 20 KP threads? Yuck.
In Net0 you announce the wonder WAY before that ever happens when there are still hundreds of KP to go so that when you are ready to dump your KP the chests are already taken.
There is Zero wait time in Net0, not "hours"

I often put 50 kp on another person's wonder and then find that I only earned the 10kp chest. So what? I got my 50 kp back in the AW threads, plus the additional10kp. Where's the loss?

Net0 gives a 20% return, any return less than 20% is a loss.
If you're happy with breaking even instead of 20% you could just solo fill every wonder of your own and use no system at all.

 

[Darielle]

Hey Darrielle, if you have good fellows you should not way for hours.
I can give you one example where wonder threads are a pain in the ass.

You want to update, but nobody is picking up your threads. so it's kinda the same issue.

You just earned a $h1tload of KP in either tournament or events and you are waiting on people to pick up your threads. you're stuck but cannot offload them in wonderthreads and as a result you are forced to place them in your own wonders or in that wonder you already invested 400 points in and are 300+ points ahead of your fellows. (or have a swap buddy with a special out of the swap thread arrangement)
Netzero allows you to dump as many KP as you want in your wonders without any restrictions because you need to wait on your fellows, and you alwys get a 20% roi.

You always get ~20% Roi on all your investments. for example small contributors often get nothing in a swap system. or they need to target very specific wonders and hunt those to get at least some Roi. if your fellowship dumps 100-200kp in swap threads every week and you can only spend 40 points the chance for you to ever get anything back is near zero unless you specifically target 1 wonder, then you maybe get something back.
If you can only post 5-10 points in each wonder you get pretty much never something back.

Netzero also rewards these smaller fry to get a 20% return on investment.

When you do round 2 in the tournament and/or dump all of your event currency trying for the daily how do you move 200+ KP?
Hours of using the 5 KP, 10 KP, 20 KP threads? Yuck.
In Net0 you announce the wonder WAY before that ever happens when there are still hundreds of KP to go so that when you are ready to dump your KP the chests are already taken.
There is Zero wait time in Net0, not "hours"

Net0 gives a 20% return, any return less than 20% is a loss.
If you're happy with breaking even instead of 20% you could just solo fill every wonder of your own and use no system at all.

Both good points. Maybe it's just a personal preference that doesn't have a logical reason. I'll play the bongo, you play the banjo, and we'll all just do our thing, lol.

 

[Mykan]

It all depends on what is your key priority when it comes to a wonder program. You might have a single priority or 3-4 priorities. If your single key priority is to minimise KP in your own wonder than a swap thread will be high on that list. If your priority is maximise profits then this varies the choices based on other priorities. Somewhere there is a table outlining different priorities and how the different methods stack up, net0 isn't in the table though.

The biggest challenge I see with net0 is the communication/coordintion with having everyone understand the game mechanics to make it work well. Not something that can't be overcome within a fellowship of like minded people.

 

[Kekune]

For folks wondering why the big deal... here's a comparison of putting kp in via swap threads vs. net zero. I just unloaded 161 kp from my bar, most of which came from the tournament. This is really why I love net zero so much. Fair is good... but fair AND easy can't be beat.

Dropping 161 kp via swap threads:

1. Respond to 50kp swap thread
2. Respond to 30kp swap thread
3. Respond to 20kp swap thread
4. Respond to 15kp swap thread
5. Respond to 10kp swap thread
6. Respond to 5kp swap thread
7. Exit mail system
8. Reopen 50kp message to confirm no doubling up. Write down who I owe and where.
9. Reopen 30kp message to confirm no doubling up. Write down who I owe and where.
10. Reopen 20kp message to confirm no doubling up. Write down who I owe and where.
11. Reopen 15kp message to confirm no doubling up. Write down who I owe and where.
12. Reopen 10kp message to confirm no doubling up. Write down who I owe and where.
13. Reopen 5kp message to confirm no doubling up. Write down who I owe and where.
14. Navigate to the first person's AW. Insert kp one at a time.
15. Repeat step 14 as needed, though with a lot of luck it won't be six different people.
16. Realize all the threads only held 130kp. Ask someone in chat to pick up a thread or two so I can unload the other 31 kp I'm still holding.
17. Respond to swap thread, etc...

Obviously there's some variation in that... you might save time by having a very large swap thread, though I suspect most groups don't go higher than 50. Or you might make each donation as you claim it, instead of writing them down. Or maybe your memory is better than mine and you can remember six different increments and destinations without screwing up. But regardless, that's a lot of steps. And who knows what sort of return I'll see on that kp. 20% if I'm lucky... but it's a crapshoot because I kind of had to take them all, rather than pick and choose.

Dropping 161 kp via net zero:

1. Navigate to my current hearted AW.
2. Click once to drop it all in.

The cost of that simplicity is that in the last 24 hours, I've purchased 3 or 4 chests from fellows who were ready to upgrade. Each of those was simple: see the message, open their AWs straight from the message on mobile, and use instants to buy their top open chest. I've already got my kp back from all of those, so I'm not out anything. Eventually, I'll post a message to list my AW, and within a few hours my teammates will buy up chests, saving me 20% of my kp costs, and I'll level it.

The biggest challenge I see with net0 is the communication/coordintion with having everyone understand the game mechanics to make it work well.

Yes, this is accurate. However, it's not because it's complex - it's just less familiar to folks. It's really very simple but because it's different from what folks are used to, it's "confusing." But anybody who has had to explain swap threads to new players over and over again (claim the thread before you donate! You have to have an AW in your own city to use the system! make sure you exit the thread and check there's no doubling up!) knows that system isn't all that intuitive, either - we're just used to it.

 

[Mykan]

Rarely is a wonder program simple or intuitive. I found my old analysis of the different programs and as suspected net 0 rates rather highly.

Spoiler: Analysis

A simple method of comparison, a person will place a different priority on certain criteria over others based on personal and fellowship needs.

It solves some aspects of self-level with some trade-offs.

 

[Killy-]

So competition is the problem? Isn't it competition to get to the chest first? If I'm on line all the time and somebody posts a net zero, I go and claim chest one with 40KP. The next guy can't get that chest because I beat him to it. Isn't that competitive? Your premise that somehow just because you pay more for the chests and get back exactly what you put in in a net zero based AW KP swap, it isn't competitive, is a bit flawed. What's the difference between that and the desire to put in just 7KP for the top chest? Both are the same. On the other hand, the possibility of grabbing a profitable chest might be an encouragement for players to be more active...because if you aren't here, the opportunity may go to another player.

I don't know which part you don't understand. Even if I would be online 24/7, I have no need to grab any chests. There is no profit except runes, that I do not need. The only reason I fill a chest is to help someone else. If someone else fills the chest it is even better, less work for me (best case scenario, I never fill a chest and only post my wonders to be filled). There is no beating anyone to chests. Actually it is the opposite, if anyone wants a specefic chest for the runes, he or she can just say the word. It is a system where players just help each other and don't compete (in addition it is easy to use and doesn't cost you time to invest your KP). Seems easy enough to understand for me.

To answer your question - the difference in the two systems is the incentive. One is driven by profit and the other by helping each other and having a fair system that can help the "weaker" players if they need runes.

I can imagine a player putting in an AW and just letting people contribute -- without doing much for others. And if you insist he/she do so, who'd tracking and how? You can have the players do so on their own, as it appears they are doing, but what's to keep a person from simply laying back and finishing their AW without doing the same for others at the same level? Even if the contribute to another player, it doesn't appear their is any method to prevent them from doing so at a lower level other than the AW owner noticing and ...complaining? Of course, then the AM can just get involved and kick the "ungenerous" player, I guess. And if you try tracking who put what where and when, that's a lot of overhead.

If this would be a problem, I would leave my FS and search for one with decent people.

 

[BrinDarby]

Net-0 , by the very name says you stay even.
I don't see a ROI of 20% ... I see u spend 20% you get back ur 20%
thus............ Net-0

Otherwise if I invest 10AWKP , I'd get back 12AWKP , and thats not
how Net-0 is explained .....

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Net-0 , by the very name says you stay even.
I don't see a ROI of 20% ... I see u spend 20% you get back ur 20%
thus............ Net-0

Otherwise if I invest 10AWKP , I'd get back 12AWKP , and thats not
how Net-0 is explained .....

The roi is with the wonder owner. he/she gets ~20% of his KP for free. for the helpers is indeed NetZero. (well some runes i'll guess)

Rarely is a wonder program simple or intuitive. I found my old analysis of the different programs and as suspected net 0 rates rather highly.

Spoiler: Analysis

View attachment 10377
A simple method of comparison, a person will place a different priority on certain criteria over others based on personal and fellowship needs.

It solves some aspects of self-level with some trade-offs.

I am not getting the comparison.
Affected by timezones? yes for Net0 no for Wonder society? please explain.


Every member can participate? no for net0 yes for wonder society
Anyone can help a fellow by filling chests at other members when you unlocked the tech tree. (and therefore get runes) I also do not see why this is a benefit of any systemn anyway.

And compound earnings? what is that? and why would Net0 not compound and wonder society does?
Whats the compounding about anyway. you cannot create KP out of thin air.

Net0 and wonder society are effectively the same thing, but without the need for spreadsheets.
Just the fact it requires a spreadsheet (or some fancy coding for an auto generated spreadsheet) means you have to get out of the game for it.
So member effort is already too high for my taste. effort of members in Net0 is almost as low as self level.


Also how can self level have guaranteed KP rewards lol. the argument agains self leveling is no KP rewards.

Also hard for snipers, how is only wonder socieety hard for snipers?
Any system other than self leveling is hard for snipers, Swap threads? hard for snipers as people fill the chests, net0 decently nasty for snipers as you cannot snipe at all, you can try to snipe but you will never have a profit and possibly always have a loss, the wonder looks like self level but when you put 6 points in it, you will at least loose 1 point. is't more like a snipers trap than a snipe.
Rotation if not mistaken people also pick the chests so hard to snipe, but I am not really familiar with it.

In your list Net0 should always be rated higher than WS, as it's easier to use. and has exactly the same benefits. it's what WS should have been.

 

[Darielle]

For folks wondering why the big deal... here's a comparison of putting kp in via swap threads vs. net zero. I just unloaded 161 kp from my bar, most of which came from the tournament. This is really why I love net zero so much. Fair is good... but fair AND easy can't be beat.

Dropping 161 kp via swap threads:

1. Respond to 50kp swap thread
2. Respond to 30kp swap thread
3. Respond to 20kp swap thread
4. Respond to 15kp swap thread
5. Respond to 10kp swap thread
6. Respond to 5kp swap thread
7. Exit mail system
8. Reopen 50kp message to confirm no doubling up. Write down who I owe and where.
9. Reopen 30kp message to confirm no doubling up. Write down who I owe and where.
10. Reopen 20kp message to confirm no doubling up. Write down who I owe and where.
11. Reopen 15kp message to confirm no doubling up. Write down who I owe and where.
12. Reopen 10kp message to confirm no doubling up. Write down who I owe and where.
13. Reopen 5kp message to confirm no doubling up. Write down who I owe and where.
14. Navigate to the first person's AW. Insert kp one at a time.
15. Repeat step 14 as needed, though with a lot of luck it won't be six different people.
16. Realize all the threads only held 130kp. Ask someone in chat to pick up a thread or two so I can unload the other 31 kp I'm still holding.
17. Respond to swap thread, etc...

Obviously there's some variation in that... you might save time by having a very large swap thread, though I suspect most groups don't go higher than 50. Or you might make each donation as you claim it, instead of writing them down. Or maybe your memory is better than mine and you can remember six different increments and destinations without screwing up. But regardless, that's a lot of steps. And who knows what sort of return I'll see on that kp. 20% if I'm lucky... but it's a crapshoot because I kind of had to take them all, rather than pick and choose.

Dropping 161 kp via net zero:

1. Navigate to my current hearted AW.
2. Click once to drop it all in.

The cost of that simplicity is that in the last 24 hours, I've purchased 3 or 4 chests from fellows who were ready to upgrade. Each of those was simple: see the message, open their AWs straight from the message on mobile, and use instants to buy their top open chest. I've already got my kp back from all of those, so I'm not out anything. Eventually, I'll post a message to list my AW, and within a few hours my teammates will buy up chests, saving me 20% of my kp costs, and I'll level it.


Yes, this is accurate. However, it's not because it's complex - it's just less familiar to folks. It's really very simple but because it's different from what folks are used to, it's "confusing." But anybody who has had to explain swap threads to new players over and over again (claim the thread before you donate! You have to have an AW in your own city to use the system! make sure you exit the thread and check there's no doubling up!) knows that system isn't all that intuitive, either - we're just used to it.

I would never do most of that work, and it seems kind of silly that anyone would. My method is, go to a 50k swap thread, add my wonder to it, then immediately click out of the message and go to that person's wonder and add the 50kp. Then if I want to take another swap thread, I go back and take another. It seems a lot simpler than rechecking, writing something down, etc. etc. There's really nothing to remember except the one person's AW, and virtually everyone can remember one, especially when you're in the habit of immediately doing it. If someone can't remember one for the 10 seconds it takes, then I feel sorry for them. Maybe they shouldn't be trying to take threads (and yes, I did meet one player like that once. All it took was a couple reminders and he stopped taking my threads, but from what others told me, he was always doing that to everyone. Methinks it might not have been a bad memory if you keep taking threads.)

 

[The Fairy]

Has anyone tried the netzero and dropped it again? If yes then why?

 

[BrinDarby]

you cannot create KP out of thin air.

well you can create AWKP outta thin air , hehehe ...

random person makes 24kp/day...
just like a hotel room, or a peach ... thats a perishable good.
If you leave KP meter max'd @ 10, you lose 14kp/day.

Over Spending on a AW that gets you 1/2 free back in AWKP
and shards is > losing that 14 KP day after day after day.

doen't matter if you're me @ CH4, a player hanging out @ CH11,
or someone @ CH16 who see's no benefit of going to 17 for awhile.
That person can spend that 98kp/week on a AW and get back
40-50AWKP instants +shards.

100% of 0 is 0 , 50% of 98 is 49 .... 49 > 0

 

[Kekune]

I would never do most of that work, and it seems kind of silly that anyone would. My method is, go to a 50k swap thread, add my wonder to it, then immediately click out of the message and go to that person's wonder and add the 50kp. Then if I want to take another swap thread, I go back and take another. It seems a lot simpler than rechecking, writing something down, etc. etc.

Swap threads moved so fast in our group that donating without exiting to recheck led to tons of doubling up and people getting skipped. I've heard this rule in other fellowships too, so I think it's common even if not standard. If you can do it that quickly without causing problems, then that is definitely easier than what I've had to do. Not easier than net zero, I still think.

And thinking about it more (because I haven't used swap threads in months) the writing things down was probably during an FA, when I would have had to enter and exit the threads and AWs 8 million times to put in 10kp, go back and collect a badge, then find my place and do it again. I didn't have to write down amounts on a normal day if donating directly from the message on mobile... but I did definitely always have to close the message system before donating to make sure I hadn't gotten jumped.

 

[Iyapo1]

@BrinDarby Imagine you are in a FS with a player like me. I hold my cities between chapters for months. I have the daily KP plus all extras plus my tournament average is currently over 5k so that's a few more KP.

If you and I are both dumping kp in a kp chain in the same FS you are never getting a top chest. I have more kp to dump and the more I dump the more AWKP I get back to dump. It is great, for me....not so much for anyone in the FS that cant out tournament me or who is putting KP in the tech tree.

Dominating the kp chains makes me feel like a jerk so I dont do it, but I could. With the net zero....there is no profit in dominating, the higher my tournament the less I need runes.

Swap threads moved so fast in our group that donating without exiting to recheck led to tons of doubling up and people getting skipped

Here too. Claim it, back out and back in to make sure I am giving to the correct player. I am on mobile so I can donate directly from the swap mail which is nice but it is still a lot of clicks.

 

[Darielle]

Swap threads moved so fast in our group that donating without exiting to recheck led to tons of doubling up and people getting skipped. I've heard this rule in other fellowships too, so I think it's common even if not standard. If you can do it that quickly without causing problems, then that is definitely easier than what I've had to do. Not easier than net zero, I still think.

And thinking about it more (because I haven't used swap threads in months) the writing things down was probably during an FA, when I would have had to enter and exit the threads and AWs 8 million times to put in 10kp, go back and collect a badge, then find my place and do it again. I didn't have to write down amounts on a normal day if donating directly from the message on mobile... but I did definitely always have to close the message system before donating to make sure I hadn't gotten jumped.

If you donate and then go to the thread, yeah, that will cause problems with doubling. But taking a thread first and then immediately going to donate causes no problems. That's why my fellowship does it that way. The person who grabs the thread next will see your message as the last one on it. Unless two people are uploading their message at precisely that second, it can't fail. (And I honestly believe it would crash the message system if that did.) With only 25 people in a group, the likelihood that two people will pick the precise second to upload the message is slim, I think. At least it's never happened to me, and I've been doing this for more than a year. And if it is possible ... then couldn't the same thing happen with the net zero method? I don't really see the advantage there. But as I said, each fs should do things the way they like.

 

[Darielle]

Dominating the kp chains makes me feel like a jerk so I dont do it, but I could. With the net zero....there is no profit in dominating, the higher my tournament the less I need runes.
Here too. Claim it, back out and back in to make sure I am giving to the correct player. I am on mobile so I can donate directly from the swap mail which is nice but it is still a lot of clicks.

I don't think there is any reason to feel like a jerk for donating kp to another person's wonder (unless it's 1kp preying on those who will not get much to kick you off.) The kp thread is available, the owner wants it taken. There is no "domination" to it. There is simply players helping players. If you get something back, great. If you don't, so what? I take as many kp threads as I can. So does everyone else. Whatever chest I get is fine. It's a bonus no matter what, because I'm always getting what I put in back, and then the bonus is a freebee extra. Fine by me. I've donated 70 kp to a thread and wound up with nothing back except what I put in. That's ok too. How is that domination? People do what they want when they want. I can; you can. Freedom. And if you think that small players with small amounts of kp are at a disadvantage, just think of how hard it is for them to put the major portion of kp into their own wonder in a net zero method. With the AW threads, they don't have to. Most of the time, others will put in all the kp for them. I'd say that's not domination ... that helps the newer players with less kp. It all works out in the end. JMHO.

 

[Kekune]

But taking a thread first and then immediately going to donate causes no problems. That's why my fellowship does it that way. The person who grabs the thread next will see your message as the last one on it. Unless two people are uploading their message at precisely that second, it can't fail.

I gotta disagree with this. It absolutely happens, and it happens a lot in fast- moving threads. Messages simply don't update in your view while you're in the thread (on pc) or while you're in the messaging system (on mobile). So if you're donating on mobile, any messages that post after you click the message icon simply aren't visible to you until after you exit out. So if it takes you 30 seconds to open messages, find the thread you want, and then write your message, that's 30 seconds that someone could post in front of you. It has happened to me many, many times. And if you claim one thread, then donate straight from the message without leaving messages, then claim another... you could be in there for several minutes without seeing posts. Of course, if you never go back to check you simply won't see the duplication. I'd guess unless your group's threads are very slow, you've skipped folks (or been skipped) without even knowing it.

And if it is possible ... then couldn't the same thing happen with the net zero method?

Yeah, it can... but it's less likely because there are fewer transactions. In the threads, if your average donation is 20kp, it takes 50 transactions to fill a 1000kp AW. In net zero, there are only as many transactions as there are chests in an AW, so 7ish transactions. I also think the window when things "freeze" is shorter - probably only while you actually have the AW open, vs. having to worry about the message, too. At any rate, it's been much less of an issue.

Edited to add: net zero also creates its own record. If somebody pays too much for a chest, it's immediately visible. You can easily identify the error. Piecing together who was supposed to do what on the swap threads is often impossible, especially if the threads were reset or an AW leveled. So you might suspect you got skipped somewhere if an AW doesn't fill up when you expected it to, but not actually know for sure.

 

[Killy-]

And if you think that small players with small amounts of kp are at a disadvantage, just think of how hard it is for them to put the major portion of kp into their own wonder in a net zero method. With the AW threads, they don't have to. Most of the time, others will put in all the kp for them. I'd say that's not domination ... that helps the newer players with less kp. It all works out in the end. JMHO.

Other players don't just put in the kp with the AW threads, the player still pays those kp himself/herself. The difference is in the payback and the "small" player get's less back on average in the swap thread system.

 

[ajqtrz]

To answer your question - the difference in the two systems is the incentive. One is driven by profit and the other by helping each other and having a fair system that can help the "weaker" players if they need runes.

If this would be a problem, I would leave my FS and search for one with decent people.

You are right that the difference between the two is incentive, as I think I pretty much said. So I do understand it. The point I'll make here though, is that it's not an either/or. You may put KP on a fellow players AW because you want some profit AND you may also want to help out. Both can be your motives. The thing is though, as you become more motivated you are more likely to do something. And profit just adds to the motive.

As for the "fairness" of helping the "weaker" players, I can see that. If you think it's your job to help the weaker players (which I and most of us do) you might like one system over another. But from what I can tell, most players aren't too concerned with the distribution of runes so much as the system working and nobody getting hurt. The "hurt" seems to be in when some players "dominate" the various methods and thereby force the others to have fewer opportunities to contribute. Since the net zero is net zero and nobody makes anything what is it to anybody if a few players dominate it?

So, in the end you would leave a fellowship in which some players "take advantage" of the system and profit from it while other players do not?

@Darielle and @Killy- And if it's more difficult for a small player to put in the amounts needed for a swap thread or net zero when they are at 10, 20, 30, 40 and so on up to 100KP, wouldn't it make sense to have them put in no more than 7 instead? 7, 6,5,4,3,2,1 is a lot less than 10 or more and thus, the small player would have a better chance at full participation in an FSO as described. This was not something of which I had thought before, so, thanks!

AJ

 

[Killy-]

So, in the end you would leave a fellowship in which some players "take advantage" of the system and profit from it while other players do not?

It is not only taking advantage of a system but implementing the system in the first place. I don't need a system where I get more kp for being more active, I am already getting more kp from the tournament for that. If everyone gets 20% extra kp, than that seems fair to me (I still get "more" (in absolute numbers) than other players, because 20% of more is still more). Why should I get 30% and someone else just 10% or so?

As for the "fairness" of helping the "weaker" players, I can see that. If you think it's your job to help the weaker players (which I and most of us do) you might like one system over another. But from what I can tell, most players aren't too concerned with the distribution of runes so much as the system working and nobody getting hurt. The "hurt" seems to be in when some players "dominate" the various methods and thereby force the others to have fewer opportunities to contribute. Since the net zero is net zero and nobody makes anything what is it to anybody if a few players dominate it?

The runes are pretty much whatever most of the time and nobody cares about them in my FS. But if someone cares about runes, than the net0 has only benefits for distributing those runes.

The thing is though, as you become more motivated you are more likely to do something.

I played with only swap threads for like a year and not going back to the work of spending my kp after a tournament is more than enough motivation for me. We don't need any extra motivation, but I can only speak for my FS.