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Your Elvenar Team
Feedback Quick and Dirty Summary of Ancient Wonder Changes
- Thread starter BrinDarby
- Start date
??Punt !!
Silver Lady
Well-Known Member
BrinDarby
Well-Known Member
@Silver Lady ,
caught it....... ohh and Astram, an ingame economy
is the economy of trading, ingame.... RRs can not
be sold/traded to another player, therefore not
part of the Ingame economy.
caught it....... ohh and Astram, an ingame economy
is the economy of trading, ingame.... RRs can not
be sold/traded to another player, therefore not
part of the Ingame economy.
TimeMachine
Well-Known Member
Ok. it might not be the best way to get spell fragments needed for wonder upgrades but it is at least one.
Ain't got that much left to disenchant left in that city.
Wow, and I mean WOW. You think that only items that are tradable are the Economy of the game? Not Coins, supplies, seeds and all the other things that are needed to MAKE the goods you can trade. Even you found that you had to upgrade your MH because of its limited storage capacity of COINS, that you needed to do more in the game. Your Idea of an in-game economy is in need of an adjustment I feel.
BrinDarby
Well-Known Member
Economy : noun
The complex of activities related to the consumption,
production, and trade of goods and services, as an
ongoing functioning system.
While RRs are consumed during upgrades, they are
not produced ( untill very recently in MA, crafted
from non economic goods ) or traded, therefore not
part of the Elvenar economy.
RRs are part of the Revenue to Inno economy, as
they can be traded (bought from Inno), consumed,
and produced ( from Inno directly/crafted from
other RtIE goods from Inno ).
just by saying so. Do you know what "boolian" is .... ???
If you did, you would know why RRs fail the test as part
of the Ingame Elvenar Economy. They pass the test for
RtI Economy..... Case closed.
The complex of activities related to the consumption,
production, and trade of goods and services, as an
ongoing functioning system.
While RRs are consumed during upgrades, they are
not produced ( untill very recently in MA, crafted
from non economic goods ) or traded, therefore not
part of the Elvenar economy.
RRs are part of the Revenue to Inno economy, as
they can be traded (bought from Inno), consumed,
and produced ( from Inno directly/crafted from
other RtIE goods from Inno ).
Correct, and just as I think 2+2=4 , you can't make 2+2=7
just by saying so. Do you know what "boolian" is .... ???
If you did, you would know why RRs fail the test as part
of the Ingame Elvenar Economy. They pass the test for
RtI Economy..... Case closed.
Brin and you wonder why I respond to you ... in-game economy is unique to each game. It has always been this way. You think that your definition of economy is the one that suits your needs to justify your argument. Fine then how about this definition
"What is a game economy?
A Game's economy is often intertwined with its system design. However, game systems & economies are separate constructs. Economies define the relationship between gameplay & all of its currencies, while system design defines the formulas that produce the gameplay itself."
Jan 10, 2023 Game Economies
If you would like I can list about a dozen definitions of economies but I focused on Game Economy, as it is unique unto itself.
You insist that only 1 aspect is the issue, RR and that is simply not true, Spell Fragments are the main issue.
Let me correct you on RR as they are not only available via the MA and "buying" them. They are not a revenue only.
RR are produced through the actions in the tourney
RR can be earned and consumed in multiple ways, They can also be purchased, that is correct.
To discount the Items needed to produce tradable goods is silly and even in your cherry-picked definition
"The complex of activities related to the consumption, production, and trade of goods and service"
Where the production of trade goods is made by using the currency of coins, supplies, and so on.
Now if you would like to have a civil discussion that is fine, but please stop being disrespectful in your tone and replies whether to me or others.
"What is a game economy?
A Game's economy is often intertwined with its system design. However, game systems & economies are separate constructs. Economies define the relationship between gameplay & all of its currencies, while system design defines the formulas that produce the gameplay itself."
Jan 10, 2023 Game Economies
If you would like I can list about a dozen definitions of economies but I focused on Game Economy, as it is unique unto itself.
You insist that only 1 aspect is the issue, RR and that is simply not true, Spell Fragments are the main issue.
Let me correct you on RR as they are not only available via the MA and "buying" them. They are not a revenue only.
RR are produced through the actions in the tourney
RR can be earned and consumed in multiple ways, They can also be purchased, that is correct.
To discount the Items needed to produce tradable goods is silly and even in your cherry-picked definition
"The complex of activities related to the consumption, production, and trade of goods and service"
Where the production of trade goods is made by using the currency of coins, supplies, and so on.
Now if you would like to have a civil discussion that is fine, but please stop being disrespectful in your tone and replies whether to me or others.
TimeMachine
Well-Known Member
Ok, there is no manufactory or other building that produces RR aside from the Oracle of Fortune.
But for example fellowships that are doing 19 chests in tournament on a weekly basis "produce" or generate 14 RRs per week by spending troops and/or coins, tools, mana, seeds and goods.
With the Oracle of Fortune upgraded it would be 21 RRs per week that one fellow is able to "produce" aside from crafting and maybe selling an Dwarven Armorer or something else that delivers RR by selling.
To me the RRs were and are part of that gray area like diamonds, what means can be gained ingame in small amounts and of course can be bought too.
I guess diamonds and RRs are part of both. Part of the Ingame Elvenar Economy and of course part of the Revenue to Inno as well.
BrinDarby
Well-Known Member
Wrong, I have said both were an Issue, but RRs are the bigger issue.
You won't leave my posts alone, so when you make semantical errors I'm happy to point them out. Yet again, as a Mod, your tone leaves alot to be desired of. You don't want civil discussion, just me to be wrong. A heated discussion does not necessarilly mean ppl are being disrespectfull.
Exactly, I agree ... Your city's game system is seperate from the wider
Elvenar economy, which is what you originally cited/mentioned. Again
it boils down to semantics and context. With the right context either of
us can be correct. Your city's ( internal ) economy is different than the
Elvenar's economy is, and different from the RtI economy. Confusing
1 for another is a simple mistake, but still a mistake.
I can call someone an Idiot, thats a personal attack... but if I say
someone's being an idiot, thats an opinion.... You seem to confuse
the 2 far too often.... Its prolly why you have something stuck in
your craw concerning me, so any post I leave, you see Red.
Your a Mod, rather than enciting conflict, you're here to keep
the peace.... You cannot hear my voice , nor can you see my
facial expressions while reading my posts. "My Tone", you can't
prove that, because it doesn't exsist, not in the manner you
mean it to be.....
When you misunderstand me, ( happens alot ) I try to explain
myself so you do understand, but you seem not to want to
understand.... its like you put your fingers in your ears, while
saying..... La la la la la la la la la la la la.
StarLoad
Well-Known Member
I read your evaluation and for the most part, I agree with you. I was pointing out that some and I didn't say a lot, do feel the changes were a positive outside of the Cost structure adjustment.
As for your evaluation, it seems pretty much spot on with what has been posted on Discord multiple times. Since this insanity started the issue of gaining the needed SF, CC, and RR has become the new "fair trade" issue and is getting players all in an uproar over what item is more important or at least which is of greater concern. Even your evaluation shows that in your cities the SF is a concern more than the RR, especially for smaller cities that need just a few AWs to upgrade and have no way to get the needed SF.
This tracks completely with what I read in Discord and matches up with my personal experience in my cities.
Dukester69
Member
Hello folks.... How the talk in your FS going. Here's a quote from one of my FS mates on this very much topic of changes that we all are disgusted with. " Mr/Mrs XXX, I've thought from the get-go that is a problem. One that, combined with other evidence, like how many quit the game over the changes and the like. They amount to a compelling case to the developers that they and we all would benefit from some tweaks that would bring AW updates back into line. I, for one, had felt justified in spending hundreds of dollars on discounted diamonds. Due to these changes, I won't spend another penny. Though still enjoyable, the game is no longer worth spending on it. I doubt that is an attitude they were looking for...."
Well said I think
Well said I think
TimeMachine
Well-Known Member
I really doubt that too, but since ingame-adds and some other changes, especially the changes to Ancient Wonder upgrade costs, I've red sentences like this about a hundred times from about a hundred different persons all over the world now.
Approximately half of them message-writers have already quit Elvenar or just sent their city to sleep in a one-person-fellowship.
On the world map of my main city half of my scouted area, which had been a completely active neighbourhood for years, has magically changed into gold mines and of course my main city suffers under a big cultural loss because of this.
Plus scouting new provinces is mostly a joke when you are scouting gold mines most of the time.
I don't want my thinking and writing to become too negative, but to me it doesn't look that good in general atm.
I am still hoping for the next changes to the game, whatever they will be.
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Dhurrin
Well-Known Member
I agree.
I am one of the players who has now deleted a bunch of accounts and parked a bunch of others (different nicks on different servers/countries). I used to spend a bit of money on all of them a couple of times a year, which quickly adds up. No longer. The ones I have parked I will check once every other week to keep them from being deleted, but that's it.
Most of the ones I still had running was to get that comparison on the effects of this change on different level cities. Now that is done, there is no need for me to keep playing them as they will be stuck anyway and I have parked those.
But even on my main account I no longer will spend money. It's just no longer worth it. Even less so since I have goldmines creeping up on me further every week.
And like you, I am still hoping the Devs (and management) will come to their senses, though I'm not very optimistic about the chance of that happening.
So though I'm not completely quitting yet I am slowly starting to look around for other games. And one thing is for certain; if it comes to that it will NOT be an Innogames game. Simply because I can't trust the company. What they do to Elvenar, they can do to any other of their games. Trust is lost there, so if (when?) the frustration level gets to be too much I'll find another company. I like to enjoy my gametime, and right now that enjoyment is nowhere near what it used to be.
I am not adverse to paying, as I understand that is how free games can stay free-to-play. But I need to be able to trust a company not to repeatedly screw me over with unbalanced changes, that are then 'rebalanced' by even worse changes.
A Dutch saying is "Vertrouwen komt te voet, maar gaat te paard". Literal translation would be "Trust comes on foot, but leaves on horseback", meaning that building trust is slow, losing it is fast. And often permanent btw.
Mine basically is lost.
TimeMachine
Well-Known Member
So true and valid for so many different areas of virtual and real life as well!
Dhurrin
Well-Known Member
Something else I noted on my map; the first few players putting 'no KPs please' in the description of their city. That's new to me, but shows they are getting to either the point of being KP locked, screwing with their KP-swaps, or are having issues with their AWs.
This whole change in the AW-upgrades is a problem and needs to be acknowlegded and fixed, and fast.
This whole change in the AW-upgrades is a problem and needs to be acknowlegded and fixed, and fast.
Goldeeloks
New Member
I‘m sitting on over 400 KP’s in my bar with nowhere to go with them. Can’t upgrade any AW as I don’t either have enough SF’s or resources. So there they sit.
I can’t disenchant those, so what am I to do with them?
I can’t disenchant those, so what am I to do with them?