SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
You did make a few comments on other's playstyle that I may have misinterpreted as insensitivity.
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Your Elvenar Team
DeletedUser9916
Guest
My player name is MzMichelle and the oldest of my cities my four cities are the victim’s of the Hurricane Inno. Elcysander suffering the worst with losses in working population of over 6 thousand. Once flourishing and magnificent, our eldest remaining event buildings now are only a fraction of their former glory, a crumbled reminder of much better times when the event rewards were more worth the effort you put into them. This is the 2nd natural disaster to hit my oldest of cities. We recovered very slowly from the thousands of our brothers and sisters lost devastatingly form the hail storms that hit us as the Ancient Wonders were restructured.
We plea for the Inno Gods to have pity upon us for all the harm the’ve inflicted upon our games. We the players who have suffered the most are those whom have made the most commitment to you. Can’t you see that? We should suffer because you’ve failed to make this year’s events as worthy? Now it seems we will also be penalized for our choices we made accordingly to not participate this year to the extent we once did in the past to earn these newer less valued items. Now suddenly those are good and upgradeable but ours are not and we didn’t go all out for those because of your deception. No, that’s not fair. These prizes we held have greatly impacted the way we have played our games little can be done to fix that now.
So stripping your most experienced players who have given years of loyalty of the value of event buildings they have rightfully earned is what you consider fair? Have the sacrifices these players have made to develop and nurture the younger generations been at all considered? I have a very large amount of these buildings taking up capital in my cities that now are not worthy of the space they occupy but to sell them to replace with new would result in damages in the 10’s of thousands, One magic house and one spell will not come close to recovering what I’ve lost and still stand to lose to repair things. We now know that we were simply lied to when it came to the value of anything over the years and the developers don’t know the definition of permanence. I feel I have become victim of an internet investment scam. I invested an extreme amount of time and resources (some financial) over months of time it took me to earn those rewards based on Inno’s promises that my investment would “increase my population permanently”. To achieve your balance you had the possibilities of just creating new awesome event buildings what are actually nicer than the old ones going forward that we can replace them with now that our cities are at much higher levels and made them available to newer guys too, at their levels; however; you decide to loot our devastated cities and rob us blind instead?
What I feel would be the only fair resolution would be to allow us to sell our buildings back to you that are now garbage in exchange for diamonds and kp to upgrade our ancient wonders both. If a building was worth 800 pop and also culture 800 kp could be given that we could invest in our AW’s that still are not the strength they used to be prior to the first storm. The 100 diamonds per building would prove a bandage to return the time and game and/or financial resources we spent on these buildings that other players did not. Fair would be to compensate those you caused damages to equivalent to the extent of the damage caused not a boost for everyone who were not even born yet or did not participate before. This would atleast allow us to reclaim the space and give us some disaster insurance relief payout to begin to restructure.
I don’t know how you feel that giving a reward to everyone will help the recovery of those that have been struck the worst by this disaster. Our neighbors will flourish around us why our cities are still trying to sort through all the wreckage and dig ourselves out of a huge hole you’ve made by your decisions.
My final thought: Consumer Fraud “Deceptive practices that result in financial or other losses for consumers in the course of seemingly legitimate business transactions.”
We plea for the Inno Gods to have pity upon us for all the harm the’ve inflicted upon our games. We the players who have suffered the most are those whom have made the most commitment to you. Can’t you see that? We should suffer because you’ve failed to make this year’s events as worthy? Now it seems we will also be penalized for our choices we made accordingly to not participate this year to the extent we once did in the past to earn these newer less valued items. Now suddenly those are good and upgradeable but ours are not and we didn’t go all out for those because of your deception. No, that’s not fair. These prizes we held have greatly impacted the way we have played our games little can be done to fix that now.
So stripping your most experienced players who have given years of loyalty of the value of event buildings they have rightfully earned is what you consider fair? Have the sacrifices these players have made to develop and nurture the younger generations been at all considered? I have a very large amount of these buildings taking up capital in my cities that now are not worthy of the space they occupy but to sell them to replace with new would result in damages in the 10’s of thousands, One magic house and one spell will not come close to recovering what I’ve lost and still stand to lose to repair things. We now know that we were simply lied to when it came to the value of anything over the years and the developers don’t know the definition of permanence. I feel I have become victim of an internet investment scam. I invested an extreme amount of time and resources (some financial) over months of time it took me to earn those rewards based on Inno’s promises that my investment would “increase my population permanently”. To achieve your balance you had the possibilities of just creating new awesome event buildings what are actually nicer than the old ones going forward that we can replace them with now that our cities are at much higher levels and made them available to newer guys too, at their levels; however; you decide to loot our devastated cities and rob us blind instead?
What I feel would be the only fair resolution would be to allow us to sell our buildings back to you that are now garbage in exchange for diamonds and kp to upgrade our ancient wonders both. If a building was worth 800 pop and also culture 800 kp could be given that we could invest in our AW’s that still are not the strength they used to be prior to the first storm. The 100 diamonds per building would prove a bandage to return the time and game and/or financial resources we spent on these buildings that other players did not. Fair would be to compensate those you caused damages to equivalent to the extent of the damage caused not a boost for everyone who were not even born yet or did not participate before. This would atleast allow us to reclaim the space and give us some disaster insurance relief payout to begin to restructure.
I don’t know how you feel that giving a reward to everyone will help the recovery of those that have been struck the worst by this disaster. Our neighbors will flourish around us why our cities are still trying to sort through all the wreckage and dig ourselves out of a huge hole you’ve made by your decisions.
My final thought: Consumer Fraud “Deceptive practices that result in financial or other losses for consumers in the course of seemingly legitimate business transactions.”
DeletedUser12171
Guest
This will be my last post on the subject
Rebalancing of the growth curve of certain event buildings has been done because of new mechanic that is to come, namely, upgradeable buildings. Many players have been affected by it because they have a significant amount of pop/culture provided by the adjusted buildings
However justified your complaints are, devs are not likely to backtrack. I think a better issue to raise would be "is the new growth curve appropriate and why?" This is in the same vein of my suggestion during the CL/BS rebalance - it would be more apt to discuss whether 30 provinces worth of goods is the appropriate cap, and why.
In the meantime, to cope with the change, my suggestion is, take the chance to adjust the balance of buildings in your city. I like jps54's suggestion as well, that is if you spent diamonds, go for the standard offers instead of event buildings. I will consider it seriously the next time I want to spend on something in the game.
That's all I have to say. I'm not interested in debating whose views are right or wrong, justified or not, acceptable or not because frankly, I don't really care. You can construe my posts any way you like, I don't really care either. As someone mentioned, anyone should be allowed to share their thoughts on open forums. So here's mine, take it however you like. Good day!
Rebalancing of the growth curve of certain event buildings has been done because of new mechanic that is to come, namely, upgradeable buildings. Many players have been affected by it because they have a significant amount of pop/culture provided by the adjusted buildings
However justified your complaints are, devs are not likely to backtrack. I think a better issue to raise would be "is the new growth curve appropriate and why?" This is in the same vein of my suggestion during the CL/BS rebalance - it would be more apt to discuss whether 30 provinces worth of goods is the appropriate cap, and why.
In the meantime, to cope with the change, my suggestion is, take the chance to adjust the balance of buildings in your city. I like jps54's suggestion as well, that is if you spent diamonds, go for the standard offers instead of event buildings. I will consider it seriously the next time I want to spend on something in the game.
That's all I have to say. I'm not interested in debating whose views are right or wrong, justified or not, acceptable or not because frankly, I don't really care. You can construe my posts any way you like, I don't really care either. As someone mentioned, anyone should be allowed to share their thoughts on open forums. So here's mine, take it however you like. Good day!
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DeletedUser9916
Guest
Most of this did not get a notification until 2 days after Hurricane Inno hit our cities. What do you expect we could have done to prepare for casualties in the thousands anyway, honestly?
DeletedUser9916
Guest
How do you prepare for losses in the thousands? Sell so the losses are in the tens of thousands?
DeletedUser5169
Guest
I suggest that, before you do a future rebalancing, you take a more proactive stance rather than a reactive one. For instance, post that you will rebalance in a week which will result in some buildings would provide reduced population and culture. List a reasonable number of buildings so that people can make changes to their cities before the catastrophic happens. Wait a week, make the changes and then release another list of buildings to be changed. Also provide a way to delete buildings that are no longer desired to get them out of inventory. Currently the only way to get rid of them is to build them and then sell them. Also change the message when you sell one of these buildings that notes it came from a quest/ adventure not that it cost diamonds that you won't get back. Being a little proactive may prevent your customers (players) from being so unhappy.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Indeed, inno is very unlikely to backrack based on their history. It is possible that suggesting other alternatives like legacy buildings may prevent player frustration during future rebalancing changes.
DeletedUser8066
Guest
You may argue that it is only quest buildings that were altered, not buildings which were paid for, yet some folks DID spend diamonds and at very least spent effort to earn those buildings which Inno robbed.
Also, saying that we can upgrade event buildings is not a bonus...
Think about it. Space in the game is NOT infinite. We will all eventually run out. Some already have. One way we compensate for that is we replace old event buildings with newer, better ones. If we can upgrade old ones, then what's the point earning new ones??? That is the fun in the events, earning new buildings.
And as to Inno's offer of a free magic residence, I only see this as another attempt to put money in your pockets. You're offering a "free" building that takes up space which can only be upgraded with diamonds.... Not much of an offer there.
I understand needing to make money to keep the game going, but it shouldn't be at the cost of what your players have already earned.
I have left 3 fellowships and may be leaving the rest. I quit playing Forges of Empires because I don't like my things being stolen.
I, for one, will be playing Terraria. I pay once and play game where you keep what you earn and no one steals your stuff.
Also, saying that we can upgrade event buildings is not a bonus...
Think about it. Space in the game is NOT infinite. We will all eventually run out. Some already have. One way we compensate for that is we replace old event buildings with newer, better ones. If we can upgrade old ones, then what's the point earning new ones??? That is the fun in the events, earning new buildings.
And as to Inno's offer of a free magic residence, I only see this as another attempt to put money in your pockets. You're offering a "free" building that takes up space which can only be upgraded with diamonds.... Not much of an offer there.
I understand needing to make money to keep the game going, but it shouldn't be at the cost of what your players have already earned.
I have left 3 fellowships and may be leaving the rest. I quit playing Forges of Empires because I don't like my things being stolen.
I, for one, will be playing Terraria. I pay once and play game where you keep what you earn and no one steals your stuff.
Risen Malchiah
Well-Known Member
Here's a thought for the developers (assuming any are still reading this thread on page 19)...
1. Leave the old event buildings unchanged.
2. Make the new chapter values for the old buildings rise at a lower rate than newer buildings so they slowly align with new buildings.
3. Consider them "legacy" items that are no longer given out in new events but longstanding members who still have them are essentially rewarded for having stuck with the game for 1-2+ years.
4. If you want to release new versions of these buildings in future events with new, balanced stats, release them with new names that simply use the same skin (so the artwork isn't wasted). For instance, instead of a "Glossy Garden" the new prize might be called Menhirok's Garden but they'd both use the same skin. (Or call the new one Glossy Garden and change the name of the older ones to "Legacy Garden" or "Ancient Garden".)
See? With just a little imagination, developers can phase out the buildings they feel are overpowered without unbalancing the game without upsetting the player base.
1. Leave the old event buildings unchanged.
2. Make the new chapter values for the old buildings rise at a lower rate than newer buildings so they slowly align with new buildings.
3. Consider them "legacy" items that are no longer given out in new events but longstanding members who still have them are essentially rewarded for having stuck with the game for 1-2+ years.
4. If you want to release new versions of these buildings in future events with new, balanced stats, release them with new names that simply use the same skin (so the artwork isn't wasted). For instance, instead of a "Glossy Garden" the new prize might be called Menhirok's Garden but they'd both use the same skin. (Or call the new one Glossy Garden and change the name of the older ones to "Legacy Garden" or "Ancient Garden".)
See? With just a little imagination, developers can phase out the buildings they feel are overpowered without unbalancing the game without upsetting the player base.
DeletedUser7686
Guest
I am fortunate in that first, because of fortuitous timing, I have plenty of unused space to reconfigure my city, and second, the amount of population compensated is comparable to my loss.
My real loss is in my confidence that the game is worth studying, understanding, and devising and implementing strategies based on that understanding. I enjoy Elvenar primarily as a puzzle involving trade offs between in game real estate, the passage of time outside the game, and my available play time. The more uncertainty about the future values of these trade offs, the less worthwhile it is to devise and implement strategies.
It is as if I were trying to solve a series of legacy chess problems, where the solutions chosen for earlier problems affected the initial position of later problems. If, for example, the promotion of pawns to queens were nerfed as being too powerful, so that pawns could henceforth only promote to bishops, knights, or rooks, it would be a much less satisfying puzzle to solve. If some solutions are "too good," and therefore subject to nerfing, then in a sort of Goldilocks Paradox, the optimal solution is suboptimal because it risks being nerfed, and the truly optimal choices are likely to be mediocre ones with no risk of being nerfed.
So the competition becomes who can be ahead of the middle of the pack, but not too far ahead, and the real strategy becomes determining how far ahead is too far ahead, and staying just shy of that.
Or as the Japanese say, "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down."
My real loss is in my confidence that the game is worth studying, understanding, and devising and implementing strategies based on that understanding. I enjoy Elvenar primarily as a puzzle involving trade offs between in game real estate, the passage of time outside the game, and my available play time. The more uncertainty about the future values of these trade offs, the less worthwhile it is to devise and implement strategies.
It is as if I were trying to solve a series of legacy chess problems, where the solutions chosen for earlier problems affected the initial position of later problems. If, for example, the promotion of pawns to queens were nerfed as being too powerful, so that pawns could henceforth only promote to bishops, knights, or rooks, it would be a much less satisfying puzzle to solve. If some solutions are "too good," and therefore subject to nerfing, then in a sort of Goldilocks Paradox, the optimal solution is suboptimal because it risks being nerfed, and the truly optimal choices are likely to be mediocre ones with no risk of being nerfed.
So the competition becomes who can be ahead of the middle of the pack, but not too far ahead, and the real strategy becomes determining how far ahead is too far ahead, and staying just shy of that.
Or as the Japanese say, "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down."
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DeletedUser9448
Guest
Hello, my player name is Hobytla and what I can say right now is that I don't appreciate having such a huge loss of population and culture. I play in two different worlds and both of my cities now have negative population and a huge decrease in Culture. And I thought these event buildings were supposed to permanently add to our culture. I think the older structures should remain as they were originally intended. And just give the newer structures/events the ability to upgrade. This rebalancing feels very unfair to the older structures that we players have spent alot of time and/or expense (crystals) to acquire.
DeletedUser4797
Guest
DeletedUser4797
Guest
This seems so unfair. And what happens to people who were in the last FA but have now left it?
DeletedUser188
Guest
According to some comments from Mods on other forums
It has been stated that we will get rewarded on each city not just 1 per account
Based on inno games history of rewarding prizes
I will make sure to log into my main city 1st on Tuesday just in case
DeletedUser6282
Guest
Why aren't Inno being clearer about each ACCOUNT getting 1 residence+spell?
Also, it's kind of ridiculous that this change affects EVERY city but we only get compensated for ONE.
Regardless of how much the changes affect each individual, EVERYONE is affected by this because this is TEAM game and I have a lot of unhappy fellows in my cities.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
I have nothing to add to this statement other than it should have been in bigger font and bolded, so I added that. Well said, and an excellent point.
Elenara
Member
I have been playing computer games since the debut of Pong. Yes, I'm old and I realize that game developers don't really care what the players think, they just want the money. I understand that, it's business, but I have never played a game where the developers seem so determined to get their long term players to quit. If a player has been playing a game for two or three years, or longer, it's a slap in the face to rebalance their cities to make it more fair for newbies. Hello, a long term player is far more likely to stay with the game than a newbie who may be just trying out the game to see if they like it. All gamers do that, try out a game and after a month or so decide it's just not for them. It's not like the old days when the only games you could play were the ones in the closet they were several years old and usually missing a few pieces. I just think that Inno should consider what would be fair to all players.
DeletedUser9448
Guest
Hello again. This is Hobytla once again and I needed to amend and clarify my earlier comment. I inadvertently described some of the expenses incurred in acquiring event buildings as 'crystals'. What I meant was 'Diamonds'. I consider this an expense for indeed, to attain Diamonds costs money. To decrease the value and population of a structure is thoroughly frustrating when you've relied on these values in trying to grow your city.
DeletedUser9934
Guest
Well stated, and yes, I spent money on pong as well. However, the "nerfing" really did not effect the long term players that much. They are beyond the level on where the worst effect happened. And I also understand that this thing has happened before. So it did not bring more than annoyance to them. Plus that the whole thing that ignited over-managed rebalancing was that the long term players got through the options of upgrading old event buildings.
In the FS where I am playing, the effect struck those that now are in the Orc/Goblin chapter and invested into the candy cane trees last three giant event. And by invested I mean spent extra diamonds so that they could gather a fair share of them. These players ended up in negative territory of population and/or culture and have had to back track. It isn't the longterm players that Inno has jeopardized themselves with, it is the regrowth of newer players that are no longer newbies.
DeletedUser9916
Guest
These buildings were not lower value buildings and the higher value replacement buildings never came..