Solving Spire Encounters

[Iamaita]

Oh lord! Keep your manual fights, please!! I’m probably happier not knowing about terrain I just think about it like the cliff side art… I know it adds something extra for browser players, but it’s perfectly fine that I can’t see it.

 

[Darielle]

The eighth encounter consisted of two waves. I used Orc Strategists in conjuction with Light Ranged Units. There were important losses among the latter after the first wave. I'm going to take a break now and resume the Spire about an hour later.

View attachment 11494

I'm curious as to why you didn't use five orc strategists. I like to use all of one troop whenever I can, but then I only autofight. I think it's easier to win on auto with only one kind of troop. Do you manual fight? If so, then I suppose it uses an entirely different strategy than mine.

 

[Sprite1313]

My fear: we keep hammering them with 'this isn't fair to mobile players who don't have manual fight and can't see the obstacles' and we get an update announcement: "to make battles consistent across both browser and mobile platforms, manual fights are being removed from the browser"
***sami fainted***

This made me laugh and cry at the same time

 

[BrinDarby]

@samidodamage ,
ahh yeah, I dont have hellhounds ... as to terrain,
auto or manual, terrain matters enuff, to tell both kind of players.
Because placement is also wrong often, if there was a display like I showed,
on the choose troops screen, then as you chose your troops , the pic
would migrate to the terrain ... to be 110% sure your troops were ending
up where you really wanted them to start. So often 42135, just isnt.

usually every once and awhile, I'll get defeated, and go.... whaaaaaaa
the reason is always 1 of 2 things..... placement or terrain, not troops used.

 

[crackie]

Because placement is also wrong often

What do you mean by placement is wrong? I don't think I've ever seen units show up in the wrong spot before. Or do you mean that people just assume it should be 1,2,3,4,5 across on the army setup menu?

 

[Moho]

I'm curious as to why you didn't use five orc strategists.

I threw the Light Ranged Units into battle to protect the Orc Strategists in the first wave of the encounter. I was wrong not to take a picture of both waves, but at that point was getting annoyed by how time-consuming the whole process was getting. I don't remember what the first enemy lineup consisted of, but there must have been units that were able to affect my Orc Strategists (Mages for example). But for the presence of such units in the enemy lineup, I would have definitely used an all Heavy Ranged formation.

 

[Iamaita]

I'm curious as to why you didn't use five orc strategists. I like to use all of one troop whenever I can, but then I only autofight. I think it's easier to win on auto with only one kind of troop. Do you manual fight? If so, then I suppose it uses an entirely different strategy than mine.

That’s what I was saying at first! But then it got really technical and I started second guessing my strategy.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

There are definitely times I scratch my head going 'wth was that?!'
Assuming the AI is all numbers-based, it appears to be some calculation that's derived from the initiative/range numbers of target units. I *think* it was @CrazyWizard who explained to me how they tweaked it some for the first strike, but I can't find the post, so maybe not. Whoever it was used the Mist Walker as an example and listed the player units in descending order of preference as target for first strike that he had tested and confirmed.
It's obviously not a 'clean' look at range/initiative numbers, and I suspect it depends on how many of each you deploy (3LR/2M v 1LR/2M/2HR v any other combos)
Ex: Archer: movement+strike range=7 & initiative=18; Dryad: mvmt+stk=7 & initiative=17; Ranger: mvmt+stk=8 & initiative=20; Blossom: mvmt+stk=7 & initiative=16
If those were the only numbers used (and I'm adding for simplicity as well as my lack of advanced math skills, lol!) Ranger would be the first choice at 28, Archer 2nd at 25, Dryad 3rd at 24 and Blossom 4th at 23. Obviously that's not what happens on the MW's first strike, lol! I've yet to see a Ranger targeted on first strike when a Blossom was within range. I have, however, seen a Blossom targeted when an Archer was within range, thus the 'wth was that?!' reaction...

Yeah correct I have posted it somewhere./

ONLY in round 1, the mistwalker will attack different units IF they can be reached.

For example a mistwalker will attack archer and dryad before hitting your blossom mages.
and yes I kept out rangr on purpose because it will attack blossom mage before ranger.

It will also attack the sorceres before it attacks the archer or dryad.
I am too lazy to look up where I stored the exact order of attack for mistwalkers and some other pesky units.

 

[Raccon]

I threw the Light Ranged Units into battle to protect the Orc Strategists in the first wave of the encounter. I was wrong not to take a picture of both waves, but at that point was getting annoyed by how time-consuming the whole process was getting. I don't remember what the first enemy lineup consisted of, but there must have been units that were able to affect my Orc Strategists (Mages for example). But for the presence of such units in the enemy lineup, I would have definitely used an all Heavy Ranged formation.

I had good results using LMs when dealing with enemy troops combo of mage, LR, LM or even HR as long as there is only one HR is present .

However, once I got annihilate in an auto fight using axe barbarians against an enemy formation of LRs and mages and I was shocked, very likely the terrain had restricted my LMs movements and killed them before they could reach mage and archers. Ever since, except for some rare occasions, that was the last of my auto fighting in a turney or spire.

 

[Darielle]

I threw the Light Ranged Units into battle to protect the Orc Strategists in the first wave of the encounter. I was wrong not to take a picture of both waves, but at that point was getting annoyed by how time-consuming the whole process was getting. I don't remember what the first enemy lineup consisted of, but there must have been units that were able to affect my Orc Strategists (Mages for example). But for the presence of such units in the enemy lineup, I would have definitely used an all Heavy Ranged formation.

Ah yes, that makes perfect sense.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I'm curious as to why you didn't use five orc strategists. I like to use all of one troop whenever I can, but then I only autofight. I think it's easier to win on auto with only one kind of troop. Do you manual fight? If so, then I suppose it uses an entirely different strategy than mine.

In autofight indeed for the general population 5x the same unit works the best on autofight.

If you are an experienced (former) manual fighter you know some of the quirks of the AI and you can exploit it a bit. for example:

If my enemies are 1 mistwalker 3 heavy melee and 1 light melee (thief)
1 mistwalker can kill an entire unit of blossom mages in pretty much 1 hit. so if you can force it to attack the dryad first. the dryad will absorb some of the damage but doesnt get hit to hard. your 4 blossom mages can then make short work of the rest with almost no causalties.

Assuming the map ain't royally srceweing you over this can limit the casualties by quite a bit.
But the issue is knowing when and when not to do these things knowing the AI.

For 99,9% of the players this is not knowledge they posess or want to posess so for those just using 5 similar units (you can mis mortars and frogs for example or archer and dryads)

 

[Iamaita]

I have made it through the first 12 encounters in the laboratory on autofight (mobile autofight). I used all the same troop type in each encounter. I was lucky that I was able to pick mages or ranged troops in all but one as those have the wonder buffs. One encounter was three different heavy melee and two dogs in wave one and then two light range, a light melee and a couple heavy melee in wave two. I used all dryads, and it was fine. My light range are boosted more than other troop types, and if I have to send green vs blue, I feel like dryads do the best job. Since I can’t see what actually happens, I just imagine them wrapping the dogs in roots and vines to immobilize them until they can be filled with arrows. Take that hellhounds. No heavies required.

The one encounter where I used heavies was a three wave where the enemies were mostly light melee and heavy range with a few heavy melee thrown in. I sent all valorian guards, and it was an easy win. But I think unless you get terribly unlucky with the enemy types, three wave encounters are a little easier because you have numbers on your side in each wave. Since I don’t know how these guys actually fight in inno’s animations, I just imagine it like they are velociraptors. If that’s wrong, I don’t want to know.

 

[BrinDarby]

What do you mean by placement is wrong? I don't think I've ever seen units show up in the wrong spot before. Or do you mean that people just assume it should be 1,2,3,4,5 across on the army setup menu?

I'm saying exactly that, placement was wrong.....
what showed up on the field was 5,4,1,2,3 .....

I picked 1cerebus, 2cerebus, 3cerebus, 4frog, 5frog .... and top to bottom
they came out 4frog, 5frog, 1cerebus, 2cerebus, 3cerebus, thats wrong....
shudda been 4frog, 2cerebus, 1cerebus, 3cerebus, 5frog ....

Yes crackie, its happened more than once to me. So thats why in my example,
as you pick'd troops it would populate the Terrain with troop setup so that
before you hit "fight" you knew 110%, that wouldnt happen.

 

[Yogi Dave]

From left to right, the troops you pick are 1 to 5. They show up on the map directly across from the ones the enemy has. The placement on the map of 1 to 5 are middle, above, below, top, bottom. Always. I've never seen it alter from this and it's what is shown in the wiki. The Battlefield

 

[crackie]

I'm saying exactly that, placement was wrong.....
what showed up on the field was 5,4,1,2,3 .....

Yeah that wrong placement is an erroneous assumption by the player, and not a game bug. It’s been long documented in the wiki as @Yogi Dave mentioned to alternate positions above and below after center. That advice will also greatly help autofighters if they cared to read the wiki. Lining light range across a mage is critical and AI will follow it as it’s generally the only shot they can take, bearing no obstacle obstructing (it does sometimes get wonky if AI uses extra ranger movement to walk into lane of another archer and preventing him from taking his shot though ).

 

[Iamaita]

What would you guys do here?

My inclination is to just throw in all heavy range, but I know I will likely lose a bunch. Any better strategies?

 

[Darielle]

Done. 3 spires in 3 cities.

1. I won 20 diamonds, spent 125 diamonds, won a DA and PPs(a10 and a 25. Fs rewards 275 diamonds so I finished ahead by 170 diamonds.

2. I won 35 diamonds, spent 100 diamonds, won a DA, an Artifact, a Genie and a Trading Station. Fs rewards 275 so I finished ahead by 210 diamonds.

3 I won 240 diamonds, spent 200!!!, won 4 artifacts, 2 50% PPs, and a Genie. Fs reward 275 so I finished ahead by 315 diamonds.

I am tracking my goods but I track weekly because Inno makes mobile players jump through hoops to see actual inventory. I wont share the numbers because they are mostly useless (i.e I started with 1.7 million planks and ended with 1.7 million so i spent less than 100k...about ish. as long as i have more than 1.7 million at the start of the next spire i know i am not over spending my goods inventory.

Just a quick question on genies, since you mentioned them. Do genies ever give portal profits? Does anyone know? I have 4 genies but I've never put them out ... don't ask me why. Saving them for something special I guess. (I also have 2 wws in storage since chapter 5, lol.)

 

[Yogi Dave]

What would you guys do here?

My inclination is to just throw in all heavy range, but I know I will likely lose a bunch. Any better strategies?

If the heavy range is orc strats, not too bad an idea. Frogs, no unless you are or they are mainly behind a hedge.

 

[Iyapo1]

Pretty sure the genies drop 5% PPs

 

[Iamaita]

If the heavy range is orc strats, not too bad an idea. Frogs, no unless you are or they are mainly behind a hedge.

That’s what I did. Lost fewer than anticipated.

Spire finished. Final prize was a genie.