Temporary Change in Spire Schedule, Gate timer and reward adjustments

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Even in #1 FS, not everyone is on the same level. While after finishing chapter 15 there is really not much else to do except hitting tournament and the Spire hard, it is not the same while still playing the chapters. I know I didn't push the Spire hard while doing chapter 15 as I didn't want to reroute sentients from unlocking research.

I have given many hundreds of thousands sentient away, it helps.

It seems odd that someone playing in a number 1 or number 2 FS can't finish the spire. If you are running with the big dogs, keep up.

No it ain't odd, your fellowship rank says absolutly nothing, it's just a number of how highly ranked those players are, but not how active, or how well they work together.

It's all about how the fellowship works together, and it doesnt matter if that fellowhip is ranked 1st or 200th.
In many cases I place my bet on that nr 200 fellowship, as younger/lower ranke players are more often not in "hibernation" and still hyperactive.
Add 1 much bigger players to help them out and sponsor a bit here and there and they will be flying trough the tower.

 

[Ashrem]

All I'm saying is, when we split the cheque three ways the steak-eater picks the pocket of the salad-man.

But splitting the check isn't going dutch, it's splitting the check.

 

[qaccy]

First off, feedback to Inno. As I said on beta, I don't understand why it was felt necessary to reduce the amount of diamonds obtained by individual players from the Spire. The Spire isn't endless; there's only so much a player can do in a given week before the encounters are all completed. The only way leaving the diamond values as-is would be 'creating more diamonds' is because of the reduction in gate timers...so you want to give players the ability to more easily get to the upper levels of the Spire where the better rewards are, while also reducing those rewards at the same time?

Sounds like more of that 'give and take' pattern I mentioned in my post for the current Phoenix event. Essentially, it sounds like the devs want to expand wide, rather than up, when it comes to game balance. Give us more stuff, not better stuff.

Secondly:

You may be happy as you are in the tiny percentage of players who actually get there.
I on the other hand am in the vast majority of players who don't. And don't get me wrong, my FS is ranked 3rd on Elcysandir (even with open spots) and consists of pretty active players and a 10 chest weekly tourney-result. And yet getting to that top is just not happening.
With spire-squads for me being the size of about 4 regular squads the losses are bloody staggering, even on manual fights, even with several boosts on my troops. This means that the Spire is less and less interesting as the lesser rewards are NOT being compensated, but require more effort.

And if the top-boss in the first round already offers a choice out of 6 different resources spread out over 5 'spirits' the chances of getting it right in 3 guesses are getting extremely small.
Top-boss on the second go-through offers a choice out of 7 resources, still only 3 attempts, which is pretty much impossible as some can be required several times. And seeds now being added makes that really expensive since they are hard to come by

@KarlD
This week even the first fight in the first round had my towersquad at almost 4 regular squads. So I don't know what you consider 'not so huge' but I feel that's just ridiculous, especially considering the 'reward' in the chest is minimal and not in any way even close to being worthwhile

I'm sorry but based on your post history over the past few years I have to finally come out and say...you don't sound very good at the game, despite how long you've been playing. You say a lot of stuff, but your (negative) experiences with most things in the game just don't match up with what I experience doing the same stuff, so I have to assume that for what little 'skill' is required in Elvenar, you don't have very much of it. You commenting at the end about how 'ridiculous' the squad size is for the first battle of the Spire really convinced me. Did you notice as well that, while your squad size is certainly inflated in the Spire compared to normal, the enemy squad size in these first encounters is so small as to not even be a threat at all? Speaking across the whole first level, I often don't even use unit boosts because the battles are rarely more difficult than tournament round 3 and my units are capable of mopping the floor with most matchups like that. Of course, I COULD use boosts but the driving factor behind holding them is waiting for the tournament to start, even if it means doing some Spire encounters without boosts. And I have to say, while the Spire often requires a bit more thinking about what units to use compared to tournaments, I've gotten used to it by now and my losses are far lower than they used to be. All on autofight btw, because manual battling is not worth dealing with at all.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

It seems odd that someone playing in a number 1 or number 2 FS can't finish the spire. If you are running with the big dogs, keep up.

You really seem to have a problem reading posts properly.
I said MY FELLOWSHIP is ranked lvl 3 and usually doesn't make it to the top rewards.
I also said I usually make it about halfway through the 3rd spire, mostly due to timecontraints.

I know english isn't my first language, but really...

 

[mikeledo]

You really seem to have a problem reading posts properly.
I said MY FELLOWSHIP is ranked lvl 3 and usually doesn't make it to the top rewards.
I also said I usually make it about halfway through the 3rd spire, mostly due to timecontraints.

I know english isn't my first language, but really...

I never read your post. It is not all about you.

 

[mikeledo]

You don't have to

Even in #1 FS, not everyone is on the same level. While after finishing chapter 15 there is really not much else to do except hitting tournament and the Spire hard, it is not the same while still playing the chapters. I know I didn't push the Spire hard while doing chapter 15 as I didn't want to reroute sentients from unlocking research.

You don't have to be on the same level to complete the spire. The difficulty is adjusted to your chapter. MY SA world is still working the tech tree and I complete the spire there with any whining. You need enough armories to produce troops 24/7 and time instants to make extra troops. The spire gives you time instants. It is just that simple.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

You don't have to be on the same level to complete the spire. The difficulty is adjusted to your chapter. MY SA world is still working the tech tree and I complete the spire there with any whining. You need enough armories to produce troops 24/7 and time instants to make extra troops. The spire gives you time instants. It is just that simple.

Unlike the end-game players, people in lower chapters have other priorities. Like actually progressing in the chapters. So sure, any level city can complete the Spire (I've done it in chapter 4 multiple times), but this will also likely slow down their progress significantly. Not everyone is willing to make that tradeoff, and I totally understand that.

 

[mikeledo]

Unlike the end-game players, people in lower chapters have other priorities. Like actually progressing in the chapters. So sure, any level city can complete the Spire (I've done it in chapter 4 multiple times), but this will also likely slow down their progress significantly. Not everyone is willing to make that tradeoff, and I totally understand that.

INNO wants folks to slow down the game so they don't get bored and quit. That is why they outlaw pushing, but don't enforce it. That is why they swapped over to time instants for the tourny because folks were rushing through the game. The FA and events slow the game down. That is fine, but those folks don't need to be in a FS that wants to get 12 chests in a spire. They can rush through the game somewhere else.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

They can rush through the game somewhere else.

Luckily, not all high level FS share your opinion.

 

[mikeledo]

Luckily, not all high level FS share your opinion.

That is why I am not an AM. They are looking for spire players to replace those who leave.

 

[mikeledo]

So now the spire and the tourny are over about the same time. Want to start a pool to how long it is going to take for us to get all of our rewards?

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I wondered the same yesterday lol, last 2 weeks didn't go flawlessly, but who knows I might get double rewards again this week

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

So now the spire and the tourny are over about the same time. Want to start a pool to how long it is going to take for us to get all of our rewards?

It is only for this week. The Spire goes back to it's normal schedule tomorrow.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

spire just popped up 8am sunday colorado MST so a bit earlier, and having it end at the same time as tournaments seems like asking for problems like asking for it ..and bring back wells lol

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

spire just popped up 8am sunday colorado MST so a bit earlier

It's the usual time. The last few weeks it was 1h later than usual because Germany switches to DST later than US. They just switched this weekend, so it is back to normal.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

I never read your post. It is not all about you.

First off, feedback to Inno. As I said on beta, I don't understand why it was felt necessary to reduce the amount of diamonds obtained by individual players from the Spire. The Spire isn't endless; there's only so much a player can do in a given week before the encounters are all completed. The only way leaving the diamond values as-is would be 'creating more diamonds' is because of the reduction in gate timers...so you want to give players the ability to more easily get to the upper levels of the Spire where the better rewards are, while also reducing those rewards at the same time?

Sounds like more of that 'give and take' pattern I mentioned in my post for the current Phoenix event. Essentially, it sounds like the devs want to expand wide, rather than up, when it comes to game balance. Give us more stuff, not better stuff.

Secondly:



I'm sorry but based on your post history over the past few years I have to finally come out and say...you don't sound very good at the game, despite how long you've been playing. You say a lot of stuff, but your (negative) experiences with most things in the game just don't match up with what I experience doing the same stuff, so I have to assume that for what little 'skill' is required in Elvenar, you don't have very much of it. You commenting at the end about how 'ridiculous' the squad size is for the first battle of the Spire really convinced me. Did you notice as well that, while your squad size is certainly inflated in the Spire compared to normal, the enemy squad size in these first encounters is so small as to not even be a threat at all? Speaking across the whole first level, I often don't even use unit boosts because the battles are rarely more difficult than tournament round 3 and my units are capable of mopping the floor with most matchups like that. Of course, I COULD use boosts but the driving factor behind holding them is waiting for the tournament to start, even if it means doing some Spire encounters without boosts. And I have to say, while the Spire often requires a bit more thinking about what units to use compared to tournaments, I've gotten used to it by now and my losses are far lower than they used to be. All on autofight btw, because manual battling is not worth dealing with at all.

Strange. I seem to be at the end of the tree and do pretty well for myself. I never claimed to be a genius in the game, but this doesn't take being a genius either. There really is not much skill involved at all.
Besides, your remark on how you play the Spire would have me state you don't seem to be doing so in a smart way either. I don't play the Spire in the first few days, but wait until the tourney has started so my boosting buildings work for both. And hey, if you had read the post you would have noticed I specified I do most battles on autobattle due to lack of time, only use manual battle when the autobattle misfires.

My main beef with the game is the random crap in which I consistently score way below average and there is just jack-beep- I can do about that. If one has a 25% chance on a daily prize with a certain chest in an event and one opens 16-18 such chests, one would expect, based on chance, 4 such prizes. But certainly 3. If I only win 2, or even only 1, that has nothing to do with my ability or skill to play this game. If such instances happen in almost every event that means I just seem to be extremely unlucky, not unskilled. Frustrated, but not unskilled.
If a wishing well has a 10% chance of yielding diamonds and the first 2 I had placed each yielded diamonds only 3x in their 100 day span, same thing. Has nothing to do with skill, how fast one clicks, where one clicks or whatever. I had that discussion with Soggy at some point and it was only after I had 10 wishing wells up for 100 days and then another set of 10 for another 100 days that I actually got to the average of 10% diamonds. So the average may be correct in the very long run, but individual results are not even close. Some scored way better, some only gave diamonds a few times. Random chance, not skill.

I have a problem with the inflated squads since it means losses also are inflated. 10% of 40.000 is more than 25% of 10.000, so losing 10% of a squad of 40.000 is much worse than losing 25% of 10.000. It's just bloody annoying since the rewards in the chests again are random and very meagre. So I'm literally smothered with coinrains I have absolutely no use for, but have never won some of the rewards I'd like and actually am hoping for.
I also am pretty bloody sure I did not say the first fights were hard. The discussion was about the Spire where I normally get to at least the end of the second spire, but often halfway the 3rd one. But after that change I was unable to proceed through the bloody fight halfway the second one.

As for skill, generally if I'm fighting manually I do pretty damn well. I just don't have the time to do every battle manually. Some people actually have to work.

 

[KarlD]

@KarlD
This week even the first fight in the first round had my towersquad at almost 4 regular squads. So I don't know what you consider 'not so huge' but I feel that's just ridiculous, especially considering the 'reward' in the chest is minimal and not in any way even close to being worthwhile

Not so huge is compared to how big they get further along which is about 4 times as big I think. And in the very first fights of level 1 my troops outnumber the enemy so much that I don't typically lose many troops. Yes, the reward of the chest is minimal, but the way I see it, the real reward is in the group level prizes. I don't worry about the loss of troops so much because I figure I'm getting a bunch of time instants that I can use to replace those troops instantly. Whenever I see a time instant in the Spire I see troops. Once you start looking at it like that you will see it in a whole different way.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Not so huge is compared to how big they get further along which is about 4 times as big I think.

For the last boss fight on stage 3 you will need to field 6x times your first encounter, and your enemy squad size will be about 13x bigger than in the first encounter

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Not so huge is compared to how big they get further along which is about 4 times as big I think. And in the very first fights of level 1 my troops outnumber the enemy so much that I don't typically lose many troops. Yes, the reward of the chest is minimal, but the way I see it, the real reward is in the group level prizes. I don't worry about the loss of troops so much because I figure I'm getting a bunch of time instants that I can use to replace those troops instantly. Whenever I see a time instant in the Spire I see troops. Once you start looking at it like that you will see it in a whole different way.

huh? I'm saying my towersquad is over 4x a regular squad. You say "wait until later, they get to be 4x a regular squad". I already AM at that point...and yes, I generally get to at least halfway through the 3rd spire so I already know they get even larger which is just bloody stupid.
And with the new update the group rewards are only interesting if the FS gets to all the waypoints. If the group doesn't the grouprewards also have diminished. Now let's see, I'm in a FS in the top 5 and we score 10 chests in the tourney every week. And yet we hardly even make that top waypoint.
Also, look at the different servers. There are multiple servers where NOT A SINGLE FS GETS TO THAT POINT. That should say something. There is no point in saying 'the group rewards will make it worthwhile' when in fact that only is so IF all waypoints are scored and that happens so rarely.

As for timeboosters, yes, I use those for troops. Problem is that means that the 'reward' scored there is empty. If by far most of the reward is needed to recoup the losses the real reward is only what is left after that...very meager pickings indeed

 

[KarlD]

huh? I'm saying my towersquad is over 4x a regular squad. You say "wait until later, they get to be 4x a regular squad". I already AM at that point...and yes, I generally get to at least halfway through the 3rd spire so I already know they get even larger which is just bloody stupid.
And with the new update the group rewards are only interesting if the FS gets to all the waypoints. If the group doesn't the grouprewards also have diminished. Now let's see, I'm in a FS in the top 5 and we score 10 chests in the tourney every week. And yet we hardly even make that top waypoint.
Also, look at the different servers. There are multiple servers where NOT A SINGLE FS GETS TO THAT POINT. That should say something. There is no point in saying 'the group rewards will make it worthwhile' when in fact that only is so IF all waypoints are scored and that happens so rarely.

As for timeboosters, yes, I use those for troops. Problem is that means that the 'reward' scored there is empty. If by far most of the reward is needed to recoup the losses the real reward is only what is left after that...very meager pickings indeed

Hmmmm. I'm not sure what I thought I was responding to at the time. 4x your regular squad is indeed pretty effing crazy for the first fight of the first level. It would certainly explain why some people seem to have so much trouble with the Spire. If my Spire squads were 4x what they are now I'd certainly have a different perspective on the Spire. Does that mean your 3rd level squads are like 16x? Your Spire squads seem to be an outlier from the numbers people are submitting to MinMax Gamer's thread asking for those numbers. Most people have first encounter Spire squads smaller than their standard squad, but I saw one that was about 2x. Yours at 4x is way out there.