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    Your Elvenar Team

Unfair Trades

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Ashrem

Well-Known Member
When Inno nerf'd AWs, was that the majority view..... prolly not...
Probably yes. The vast majority of players never placed the Aws which were nerfed, and the changes were a net benefit to everyone who didn't have them. The standard rule is that unhappy people are the ones giving feedback, and despite a sense of apocalypse on the forums, there were never more than a few dozen people complaining out of tens of thousands of players.
Your words , the quote , perfectly frames... the haves vs the have nots ... same as a senior vs a freshmen in HS.... or even world government.... those in power try to stay in power thru rules.... or bully'n..... The majority doesn't rule around, here Inno-Games does......
Yeah, we've seen this before. "If someone doesn't agree with me it's only because they are oppressing me and want to keep all the goodies for themselves."

Sometimes that happens, but protecting new players from predatory traders is the exact opposite of what you're pretending it is. No new players are helped if the game stops warning new players that your trades are exploitative and will bleed them of their production. I'd say nice try, but since it's the opposite of "nice".....
exactly... hording it by default, but not actively .....
False. Hoarding is retaining things for which you have no defined use. As the game progresses, I will need some unknown amount of those goods for upgrades and techs, and in the meantime I am using them extensively to benefit my fellowship.

You have no idea of the requirements for people in late game. group of residences in Chapter 16 can millions of goods to upgrade. If I hit a rough patch in the tournament, my current province requires 246,000 goods to negotiate, including 82,000 Elixir. My "hoarding" would allow me to negotiate six provinces. Your incessant whinging about how hard you have it and how I am somehow "hoarding" is nothing but a lack of experience and understanding.
I dont wanna hurt the game @ your expense, but you are benefitting @ my expense... and thats not right.
You're arguments aren't even logical any more. Me not taking your bad trades is not somehow benefitting from you. That claim is ludicrous. Even if you were one of my trading partners, not taking your predatory trades has zero affect on me in any way.
How is it the right of anyone to tell others how to play the game ???? including FSs...... I can see , within a FS,

only trading 1:1 , thats the FS discount, but to have a FS tell anyone how to play outside the FS is a form of

repression, domination, bully'n, and downright wrong.....
You have a strange view of the universe. Nobody forces you to join any clubs that have rules you don't like. Pretending that a private club (which you can join or not join as pleases you) is bullying you by having rules you don't like is pretty narcissistic. It says you want the benefits of being in their club, but that you should be able to decide whether or not they have any rules and what rules.
By me saying.... "this or that" is "good or bad" that's not making it personal with the person I'm talking to
The real question some of us have is whether you actually believe that's what you are saying, or if you just think we're stupid enough to believe it.
As for "real values of goods" yes I only used # tiles & # pop, and the only way to compare apples to apples is using all lvl-1 bldgs with no boost applied. Also since we all have to live with 1 : 1.5 between tiers, you have to evaluate each tier seperately, then apply the 1:1.5 to that....

In reality, its everything need'd to build/keep a factory producing... like whats the actual cost of the pop in terms of other bldgs and thier associated costs... the forumla I used gave me a "raw" score for producing goods......
And that's why it took several dozen people talking about the trader for five years to get to the current state, which is an imperfect compromise that tries to be equally unfair to all players, instead of just giving you what you want (today, since a couple of months from now it will be something else you want, and presumably we'll all be expected to kowtow to your new requirements at that time.)
in the end Ashram, Elvenar is a buisness.....
I am fully aware Inno is a business, which is why I regularly assess ideas in terms of whether they make the game more interesting, or just give one person what they want to make the game easier or change it to the kind of game they want it to be while ignoring the tens of thousands of people already playing.
and if there's more $$$ in newer players, then you're a die'n breed... they've already milked you for what they can, now its time to milk the new players... this isn't good for me or you, duhhhhh but you cannot spend 1-2$ in aquisition costs for players, then ignore the retention side of things.... otherwise that 1-2$ was wasted.....
I bet I have more cities in the first few chapters than you do. And I still spend money when it pleases me. I spent $30.00 worth of diamonds this week on two more Magic Residences in my most mature city, and another $79.00 on diamonds without a particular use in mind in a smaller city because they offered me a good deal. But feel free to keep telling me how Inno doesn't want me.
Since you and everyone else, it seems want me gone, go get Xelina and have me banned, otherwise quit bully'n me and picking apart in minute detail every aspect of every post I make...
I'm guessing you've already forgotten that I liked an idea you posted elsewhere and encouraged you to turn it into a formal suggestion and supported the suggestion when you did so? (Instants in the Spire)

Despite your written messages frequently coming across as aggressive and provocative, I remain uninterested* in having an adversarial relationship with anyone, but that doesn't mean I'm going to yield to their demands that I stop pointing out errors and flaws in arguments just so they can have their way.

Her name is Xelenia. I'm mostly willing to ignore the incessant use of wrong or non-existent words, but you could do human beings the courtesy of getting their names right.

I'm not interested in blocking or punishing people I disagree with. As I said, your forum communication style is aggravating, but so far my only issue with your arguments is that their are inadequate. And in my responses up until now, I've been granting considerable leeway to your inexperience in the game.

I am strong, vocal, public, proponent of improving the experiences for new players and increasing retention. Making me out to be just interested in protecting my own lead is sad, and adds to the perception you don't have a lot of experience on the forums and aren't interested in getting it.

* Uninterested is not the same thing as actively avoiding it.
 
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hvariidh gwendrot

Well-Known Member
hahaha man all i know is i have gotten messages from strangers telling me thank you for my members taking their trades, i post 3 star trades so i can take 0 star trade from my members then go down the list and help any small and new players with any trade they post to help them, then clear out the posted 3 star trades and most 1 to 1 trades .. i over produce just to be able to help .. deal with that lol :cool:
 

BrinDarby

Active Member
@Ashrem ,

BrinDarby said:
Your words , the quote , perfectly frames... the haves vs the have nots ... same as a senior vs a freshmen in HS.... or even world government.... those in power try to stay in power thru rules.... or bully'n..... The majority doesn't rule around, here Inno-Games does......
Yeah, we've seen this before. "If someone doesn't agree with me it's only because they are oppressing me and want to keep all the goodies for themselves."

I didn't attack you there, but you still basically mock me ???
then a bit later you 100% called me stupid, when I never did that to you.....

you have no idea what my experience is, and you're so shortsighted... that you are looking @ something with a microscope that if you don't look at it from space, it won't make sense....... therefore I make no sense to you......

do you even understand the difference between micro-econimics and macro-economics ???
thats not sarcasm or a burn, I genuinely wanna know .... cause I'm flaberghasted @ your willingness
to talk down to me @ every freak'n turn.....

Yes her name is @Xelenia , and I'm sry I mispelled it, ( I kinda didn't want her involved but you force me )
I'm sick of being treated like a lepar and fool buy the constant bully'n on this forum, for the simple fact
I wanna talk about, the damn game...... got forbid I try and help make it better...... !~!!!!!!!
BrinD
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
I didn't attack you there, but you still basically mock me ???
then a bit later you 100% called me stupid, when I never did that to you.....
Only you did attack me, right there, by subtly asserting that I am some sort of powerful individual who's desire is to protect my position. And in several other places, where the context of your arguments accumulate to describing me as a self-centered player who doesn't care about new players as long as I'm protecting my own "power" within the game. The implications are both ludicrous and hurtful. I assure you, you don't need to look far for why my responses towards you are changing.

You didn't call me stupid, you just keep presenting arguments that ignore any input which doesn't support your position and make up justifications for doing so, and expect us to accept the conclusions you draw from doing so. And to repeat myself, we have no way of knowing if you don't understand you are doing it, or if you are doing it deliberately because you think other people are stupid. It has to be one (or maybe a mix of both) of those things. If you don't understand the errors in your presentation of arguments, and aren't willing to acknowledge them when they are pointed out, then there's no common ground for a debate. If you are aware of the errors, and just hoping people will miss, or ignore them, then you think we are stupid (or perhaps not technically think we are stupid, so much as think you are smarter than everyone else, who are incapable of understanding the wisdom you have chosen to bestow upon us after playing for a couple of months which clearly overwhelms what we have spent years debating before you descended into our midst.).
do you even understand the difference between micro-econimics and macro-economics ???
As above, the fact that you think questioning whether I know the difference between macro and micro economics illustrates, yet again, your attempts to imply that you re intellectually superior to other posters. so please, go ahead and enlighten me about the relevance of micro vs macro economics to your being kicked out of a fellowship for breaking their rule about not posting bad trades. I am looking forward to it.

Yes her name is @Xelenia , and I'm sry I mispelled it, ( I kinda didn't want her involved but you force me )
Held a weapon to your head by suggesting that it was rude to spell people's name wrong, did I? ad verecundiam. Good luck.
 

BrinDarby

Active Member
@Ashrem ,
howabouit you stop taking things outta context.... the full quote was.....
do you even understand the difference between micro-econimics and macro-economics ???
thats not sarcasm or a burn, I genuinely wanna know .... cause I'm flaberghasted @ your willingness
to talk down to me @ every freak'n turn.....
I clearly said I was not attacking you or being sarcastic, it was an actual question... to You.....
You, more than anyone, misunderstand me ... then thats transferred to other posters who...
rather than trying to understand me, take your "word" for what I said, when you're completely
off base and miss'd the point... So I get piled on by many ppl , for your mistake.

so please, go ahead and enlighten me about the relevance of micro vs macro economics to your being kicked out of a fellowship for breaking their rule about not posting bad trades. I am looking forward to it.
You have no idea why I ask'd that question, what relevance it has, so you dismiss it as some
kinda jab against you, even tho I said it wasn't, nor did it have ANY bering on being kicked out
of a fellowship, so you will be waiting a very long time.....

Its like I'm talking about a room painted a certain color, and you come back with.... but I don't like
a pink room, or pink is a terrible color..... and 5 more ppl say, yeah I agree I don't like pink either....
When infact the color discussed was blue.... or the point wasn't even the color @ all.....

You expect me to admit fault , when you clearly can't, it seems....

I've had this problem before, I talk about a solution to a very complicated problem. I am misunderstood
by pretty much everyone, but noone wants to discuss it, or better understand, so they just call it wrong...
Untill I take 1 person aside, in a personal realtime chat, and I go thru it step by step, and how certain
things effect other stuff... I answer every question he has.... after 90 minutes he's like.... OMG thats brilliant.
You're right, that actually does solve the whole problem in 1 fell swoop....
After a few days, more ppl started to "get it" after a few posts by him and me, the community came
around and was fairly supportive @ my solution... why ??? because my solution, unlike the dev team's,
didn't help 1 group @ the expense of another group.... ohh no, it benefitted all groups AND solved the problem.

I just look @ stuff on many levels, a way most ppl don't... I'm not saying thats better/worse, or good/bad....
Im just saying its different... so when I say that I look @ stuff like noone else does, I'm not being boastfull
or trying to be superior , just stating a fact.....

Quit thinking if I say you've ( anyone ) made a mistake in understanding what I said, that I'm calling you stupid.
its a mistake, and even over the past few days, I specifically pointed out 2 mistakes I made..... simple oooops's
but I corrected them and moved on.... but if you make a mistake and mis-understand me, you make no effort
to correct it and keep spewing your rhetoric.......
 

samidodamage

Well-Known Member
I've had this problem before,
I am misunderstood
by pretty much everyone
I just look @ stuff on many levels, a way most ppl don't
I'm not being boastfull
or trying to be superior , just stating a fact.....
Your written communication comes across as arrogant, condescending, entitled, and embracing your perceived status as a victim. You also come across as someone desperate for social interaction though obviously socially inept. Many posters tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and engage with you in a meaningful way, providing their viewpoint that you ignore or belittle in favor of your own. What you have communicated to me is that your perceptions are the only valid perceptions and anyone who has different perceptions is just plain wrong.
I obviously haven't taken the necessary hours of my time to sort through exactly what it is that you are trying to communicate so I can reap the benefits of your superior knowledge. /s
And you wonder why it's a problem for you to experience satisfaction from social interactions. The only common denominator in all these situations is you.
 

Kekune

Well-Known Member
I told myself I wouldn't wade back into this... but here goes nothing.

You, more than anyone, misunderstand me ... then thats transferred to other posters who...
rather than trying to understand me, take your "word" for what I said, when you're completely
off base and miss'd the point... So I get piled on by many ppl , for your mistake.
Nobody needs Ashrem's input to disagree with you. You've earned that all on your own. Ash is simply more persistent than the rest of us in trying to actually have a discussion with you.

I just look @ stuff on many levels, a way most ppl don't...
The greatest irony of this is that you said it to someone with a long track record of thinking about things on many levels and from multiple perspectives. Ashrem (and others posting here) have earned respect for their viewpoints over years of posts and discussions. If you want the same respect, then actually provide something of value. Digging in your heels at every turn and then being upset that people don't agree with you doesn't earn respect. Whether you're right or wrong, continuing to beat a dead horse after the group has clearly expressed a different opinion isn't going to suddenly win us over. Sometimes you gotta just agree to disagree.
 
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shimmerfly

Well-Known Member
I'm stepping back in with wading boots on.
@BrinDarby Many of us who have been here for years have tried to suggest a learned way of play to you.
Most here are adults. Some with professional degrees and no one here is beneath anyone else. We can think by ourselves and we all have the right to our own opinions.
You appear not want anyone's suggestions and want to change the game to your liking. It is not your game. It is for anyone who choses to play and play the way they want to. But there are rules to play by even if you don't agree with them.
You can offer any suggestions you think plausible but you must be civil and respectful in the forum.
You have not been
. I have gone back and read most of your posts thinking I was possiby being biased.
No one is ganging up on you or persuading anyone else.
I have tried to be open minded and patient with you. You continue to attack the people trying to help.
You are no better or worse than anyone here so I will write it off as being blissfully uninformed on how to conduct yourself in a group.
I sincerely wish you well.

The End.
 

Darielle

Well-Known Member
@Ashrem ,
I'm sick of being treated like a lepar and fool
Brin, what you are sick of is being treated exactly like you treat everyone else. No ... actually, no one treats you as badly as you treated them from the very beginning. You can't take even a small portion of what you dish out without getting angry. People were trying to help you. Even Ashrem was trying to help you; he's one of the most helpful posters here. You can't see how you antagonize people, and the minute they call you out for it, you cry foul. Think about it. If you want people to be nice to you, be nice to them first. If you want people to stop talking down to you, then stop talking down to them. It's not rocket science. You keep trying to show your vast intellect ... well then, show it by understanding this simple concept.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
(Since you are using my interleaved replies as an excuse to claim I'm micro-aggressing, I will put all my replies in one lump for you.)

Saying you are not attacking someone is not the same thing as actually not attacking them, but to be clear, I didn't read your question about micro vs macro economics as an attack, nor did I interpret it as sarcasm. I read it as an attempt to inflate your credentials with regard to the debate. An entirely different thing from an attack, so you can be comfortable that I did not feel attacked by it, and did not reply as though I had been attacked. I replied as though I felt you were implying you have some expertise (that everyone else lacks) which is irrelevant to the discussion, even if true.

You're right. I have no idea why you brought micro vs macro economics into a debate about whether the game Elvenar needs to allow unequal trading without marking it as such. While my reply was dripping with sarcasm, I am honestly waiting with great anticipation for you to reveal the relevance, and what debate it is that you want this to be about at the moment. I'll warn you, though, that if you feel free to bring up the unfairness of a group kicking you out over unfair trades, others will feel free to ask why it is relevant.

I do not expect you to admit fault. I think It's highly unlikely that you will do so about any of your underlying arguments. The most recent time I recall acknowledging I was wrong is here (including the two following messages), though I expect there have been others since. I am never afraid of acknowledging when I make factual errors. Disagreement of how things should be done, and disagreements over interpretations of other people's words are not factual errors. Your claiming that someone didn't interpret what you wrote the way you wanted them to does not make it a fact, so is not an error, but if it helps, I acknowledge that I frequently think your words are intended to be damaging to other people and that might not always be true.

If you are "misunderstood by pretty much everyone," that is your problem, not theirs.

It's not my job to assess anyone's abilities or motivations, but I think the fact you feel comfortable claiming in public that if you can get one person off by themselves you can always convince them you are "brilliant" is more revealing than you intended. Especially for someone who is misunderstood by pretty much everyone and has used the term "bully" several times in this conversation.

I agree that most people don't look at things on multiple levels, but I think part of your error is assuming that "most" means there aren't lots of people on these forums who are doing the same. There are nearly 8 billion people on the planet, and Elvenar has forums in 15 different countries in around a dozen different languages. The bigger part of your error is making the claim that you look at things on multiple levels so shortly after your claim that the two or three variables you used in calculating the comparative value for trade of goods was sufficient, when shown the numerous other inputs into the equation that made those two variables insufficient. That was a failure of your own devising.

I acknowledge that you are publicly stating that you don't think your ability to look at things on multiple levels makes you better than other people. I disagree with your statement.

Since you have already stated that most people misunderstand you, your assertion that if I misunderstand you I have made a mistake I should acknowledge it is prima facie false. If you are bothered by being misunderstood by most people, you should stop communicating in ways that cause most people to misunderstand you.


@Ashrem ,
howabouit you stop taking things outta context.... the full quote was.....


I clearly said I was not attacking you or being sarcastic, it was an actual question... to You.....
You, more than anyone, misunderstand me ... then thats transferred to other posters who...
rather than trying to understand me, take your "word" for what I said, when you're completely
off base and miss'd the point... So I get piled on by many ppl , for your mistake.



You have no idea why I ask'd that question, what relevance it has, so you dismiss it as some
kinda jab against you, even tho I said it wasn't, nor did it have ANY bering on being kicked out
of a fellowship, so you will be waiting a very long time.....

Its like I'm talking about a room painted a certain color, and you come back with.... but I don't like
a pink room, or pink is a terrible color..... and 5 more ppl say, yeah I agree I don't like pink either....
When infact the color discussed was blue.... or the point wasn't even the color @ all.....

You expect me to admit fault , when you clearly can't, it seems....

I've had this problem before, I talk about a solution to a very complicated problem. I am misunderstood
by pretty much everyone, but noone wants to discuss it, or better understand, so they just call it wrong...
Untill I take 1 person aside, in a personal realtime chat, and I go thru it step by step, and how certain
things effect other stuff... I answer every question he has.... after 90 minutes he's like.... OMG thats brilliant.
You're right, that actually does solve the whole problem in 1 fell swoop....
After a few days, more ppl started to "get it" after a few posts by him and me, the community came
around and was fairly supportive @ my solution... why ??? because my solution, unlike the dev team's,
didn't help 1 group @ the expense of another group.... ohh no, it benefitted all groups AND solved the problem.

I just look @ stuff on many levels, a way most ppl don't... I'm not saying thats better/worse, or good/bad....
Im just saying its different... so when I say that I look @ stuff like noone else does, I'm not being boastfull
or trying to be superior , just stating a fact.....

Quit thinking if I say you've ( anyone ) made a mistake in understanding what I said, that I'm calling you stupid.
its a mistake, and even over the past few days, I specifically pointed out 2 mistakes I made..... simple oooops's
but I corrected them and moved on.... but if you make a mistake and mis-understand me, you make no effort
to correct it and keep spewing your rhetoric.......
 

Alpha Lyrae

Well-Known Member
A lesson in how to treat others:

In addition, one can "not care" about others in the game and let them suffer or succeed, according to their own choices, but since what one does in the game impacts the overall pleasure in the game -- both for ourselves and others -- one ought to "care" I think. I care about there being a lot of happy, active players in the game and to get that I strive to reduce any unpleasantness where I can. Avoiding drama, visiting regularly, commenting pleasantly in chat and other places, and, not posting "unfair" trades so that I don't accidentally trigger a bad experience in my fellow players are small things, but they do add up. In the long run while it may be "just a game" those playing it are not "just avatars" and thus they do have feelings. Any little thing I can do to make those feelings pleasurable, I think I should do.
Maybe the best way to feel like the world is fair to you is to first be fair to the world.
People who focus on "fair trades" aren't usually concerned with "equal" so much as they're concerned about a spirit of teamwork and helpfulness.
Brin, you have said often that you want a chatty fellowship ... no one likes to talk to a know-it-all. That may be one of the reasons that people aren't speaking to you in chat. If you weren't so condescending to people trying to help you, and assuming that you are the only intelligent person in the room, you would have found a lot of good friends in this forum by now. Sigh. Most of the people here are actually pretty smart. You have to have some intelligence to be able to strategize in the spire, calculate chests in events, figure out fighting strategy, etc. If you treated them as equals instead of paeons who don't understand your brilliance, you'd have found what you're looking for by now.
Also, some people get satisfaction from facilitating the activities of the people around them.
Her name is Xelenia. I'm mostly willing to ignore the incessant use of wrong or non-existent words, but you could do human beings the courtesy of getting their names right.
No one is ganging up on you or persuading anyone else.
I have tried to be open minded and patient with you. You continue to attack the people trying to help.
You are no better or worse than anyone here so I will write it off as being blissfully uninformed on how to conduct yourself in a group.
I sincerely wish you well.
 
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BrinDarby

Active Member
We can certainly take the me and you outta it, replaced by person A and person B.... but I doubt that will help because ppl will read into that me and you, or me and them.... Unfair Trades includes trades in a unfair trading system. In order for a discussion about good/bad ( for the game ) it assumes the participants are unbias'd as to thier current state. I guarentee you, alot of times I'm for an idea because it helps like 90% of the playerbase, even if I'm in the other 10%.

In games like this, for noobs, its usuall to be "groomed" by the current playerbase to play certain ways. Why, well thats simple, its what they know and how they know it. Take the Moonstone Library set discussion, I was for a chg, but not @ the expense of current holders of those pieces... whereas a chg in the trading system doesn't take anything away from older players, just allows newer players better access to the system itself...

as for Micro/macro economics, (micro) a player and thier locals, and (macro) the whole trade system server wide....

As far as I can tell there's only 1 AW, like chapter 9-11 researched, that has ANY bearing on trade, and thats only a drop in the fee, not any differences in the rings or the cap. Where are the 5 day instants to get reduced/free trade , or even 3-5 xtra rings of free trade ??? I bet some ppl might even (ohhhh) pay for a feature like that..... Since I'm the noob here, please tell me Every AW/instant/spell whatever, that aids trade ?
Like more rings/bigger cap/less fees/ect ect ect.....


Take 1 of the 1st advices I got from the forum.....
"Brin, I look'd @ your city, and you're doing it wrong, just make ur boost good and trade from there." I was CH1, and no ... maybee for those CH 5+ its the way to go, but thats not the most efficient way to play the early chapters, especially when you aren't in a FS.... Not only do most FSs not take CH1 players, those players might just want to get to know and feel comfortable with the UI/playerbase/game 1st, before joining... which is actually very prudent..... "you're doing it wrong"... there is no right/wrong way... just varring levels of competancy ( and yes I'm a horrible speller and there isn't a spellcheck option )

Take Data on StarTrek Next Gen, and a episode where he kept losing a game to an alien....as soon as he changed his approach to "not losing" from "winning" , the alien became so frustrated he quit.... Why cause the alien didn't know how to counter that style, and it made no sense to him to even take that approach.... his assumption was that you always play to win @ all times.... Even I know, there's more than 1 wasy to skin a cat... lololol, or so the saying goes.....

going back to person/player A & B.... lets say Player A has played Elvenar for 4 years, and online MMOs for 8 years.... lets also say that we are talking generally simmilar MMOs.... while player B has been playing Elvenar 3 months, and online MMOs for 28 years... Usually there are transferrable skills between these games, so player B might have alot more tricks up thier sleeve, compared to player A, but will NOT be more knowledgeable about Elvenar. Again, this is not smart vs dumb, its general skills vs specific skills. Having a bigger skillset doesn't assume starter/dumber, unless you qualify that into a specific skill... and then its more, who's better @ that skill, not who's a better person/player.

Its why courts ask ppl..... can you put aside your own beliefs, to render a judgement on just the facts, when seating a jury......

I've had this problem before, I talk about a solution to a very complicated problem. I am misunderstood
by pretty much everyone, but noone wants to discuss it, or better understand, so they just call it wrong...
Untill I take 1 person aside, in a personal realtime chat, and I go thru it step by step, and how certain
things effect other stuff... I answer every question he has.... after 90 minutes he's like.... OMG thats brilliant.
You're right, that actually does solve the whole problem in 1 fell swoop....
After a few days, more ppl started to "get it" after a few posts by him and me, the community came
around and was fairly supportive @ my solution... why ??? because my solution, unlike the dev team's,
didn't help 1 group @ the expense of another group.... ohh no, it benefitted all groups AND solved the problem.
When I'm quoted, all thats listed were the 1st 5 words .... "I've had this problem before", then all sorts of assumptions related, that have NO BEARING on the whole quote were put forth against me... I was using a 1 time occurance to illustrate something that was totally lost in what ensued as comments.... It was an example how lazyness contributed to the problem and how in the end with enough understanding, it was a pretty damn good solution and accepted by most players. Often I read posts 4-5 times, or as many times as I feel necessary to gleam the right jist of a post, obviously when they just don't make sense......
like the Pic of the rings/hex's ... saying "I've been meaning to post this for awhile" says nothing on why you want to post it in the 1st place.... yet I'm jumped on when , I read it 10 times, and 10 times I just wanna know why it was posted.... so I ask nicely.... Its like hearing a joke without the punchline, and saying "and.....", because without the punchline the listener/reader is expecting "more"....

If you have the top 20 golfers, they will have 20 different backswings.... yes in general there is a right/wrong way to do stuff, but per player there is really only a better/worse way, specific to them, not a right/wrong way.....

I'm not being stupid, I completely understand .... those who have the power wanna keep it, no matter to what degree that has the potential to hurt the game itself.... I too agree that I'd hate to set my whole city up for 1 playstyle, then game chgs make that completely useless, especially if I "paid" in to the game to get that setup. BUT, that doesn't mean that if something is patently unfair to a whole group of players, it shouldn't be fixed, especially if doesn't hurt the rest of the playerbase...... Things like the Moonstove Library set, and creative uses for ANY set's pieces are usually only possible due to poor implementation..... add like 5-7 words into the set description metrics, and the problem dissappears without changing the pieces themselves...... but yes, some "creative" ways players use them will be nerf'd, to fix the original oversight.... I'm all for using the rules to my advantage, and any loopholes the programmers give me.... I also understand the ramifications if those loopholes are then closed, its call'd risk-analysis... I take the risk, hoping the benefit outweighs the risk, in the long run....

I saw the thread on event tasks, and how it used to be random, but then ppl would do the same task multiple times in a row, so it was hard coded, then released ahead of time, so to me... there is NO challange to those events whatsoever, other than how many hrs a day can you play to achieve the end goal..... if the randomization was done differently, then both problems dissappear..... no tasks keep repeating, and also no task is known ahead of time... that takes a skilled programmer to accomplish.... I also bet , then the std complaint will end up being, but now its too hard, or I don't have 18 hrs a day to play so I cannot complete the quest...... thats not a factor of it being random or not, it has to directly to do with , if the event was structured to the 4 hr a day player, or the 14 hr a day player.....

Unlike @T6583 , I tried to fix things with @Ashrem , in private..... all I got was the same attitude, but I tried.... I've had a very pleasant conversation with T6583 since then.... there is no angst or friction now it seems, why ... because both ppl took an adult approach. I really don't care if ppl disagree with me, as long as I know damn sure they do truly understand what Im saying... I'm not a mindreader in how you aren't getting it, so all I can do is answer questions as they come up..... I don't think I'm BETTER than anyone else, but every player/person has a different skillset and general intellect they bring to any situation/conversation/game.... Some ppl are better @ logic or math, others are better @ language and spelling......
BrinD
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
Unlike @T6583 , I tried to fix things with @Ashrem , in private..... all I got was the same attitude, but I tried....
That is an outright lie. I am perfectly happy to post the entire contents of both of our private conversation, or you can. Both seemed to go smoothly and logically. When I replied to the second with " I think you are needlessly frustrated. I worked very carefully to make sure there was absolutely no tone in that message. It was an explanation of how I think." You quit replying to me. There was nothing in our conversation that was anything but respectful or mature.
Here's everything I typed to you:
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