Should winning FA prizes be a competition?

[SoggyShorts]

You began comparing tournaments to fellowship adventures and how one awarded you based on your individual efforts and how the other might not give you any reward. I merely pointed out...as I will again...the two are totally different things. I will say again...it is like comparing apples to oranges.

The point is that Ashrem is saying he wants more apples, like we've always had, "no oranges please".
So of course he must compare apples and oranges when he says "I like apples better than oranges"

 

[Ashrem]

I have no difficulty with understanding your point. You began comparing tournaments to fellowship adventures and how one awarded you based on your individual efforts and how the other might not give you any reward. I merely pointed out...as I will again...the two are totally different things. I will say again...it is like comparing apples to oranges.

That's not where I began, that's where you picked up this particular part of a discussion that's been going on for a week or more between here and the beta forums.

And I will say again. We're all aware the two are different things. No one is arguing that they are the same thing. We are arguing that we don't want one of those things to be part of Elvenar.

 

[DeletedUser7370]

See, now you've got @TedGrau agreeing with me. Can the Apocalypse be far away?

I agree with you when you makes sense...it is not my fault that doesn't happen too often.

 

[DeletedUser2824]

For me, at the heart of the problem are two things, reward vs effort and the PvP element. As we've been stating, there is nothing wrong with a bit of competition, but that's not why we play this game. I don't care who get's the top #3 places. If they have the means and the cohesion to do so, great! It's just like how I don't care how many fellowships are higher ranked than ours, or how many players are higher ranked than I am. What I do care about is my pups putting forth their best effort, whatever it may be, and only getting a few mediocre prizes that don't measure up to the effort expended to get them. Even the prizes handed out to the top #3 aren't anything special considering the effort required to get them. No, not everyone needs a reward, but anyone who puts forth enough effort to reach certain goals deserves a suitable reward.

I don't hate the event, I actually rather enjoyed it. I think it has a lot of potential. But as with anything new, it also has a lot of flaws as well. Introducing a PvP element to a game that encourages co-op, and a pretty big one at that, seems pretty contradictory. That has a lot of us concerned. Is this the direction that the game is headed? If so, a lot of people are going to move on. Elvanar's appeal for many was the lack of need to compete for anything. Work for it, yes, but not compete. Sure, we could ignore the event, but then, why play the game if we aren't going to participate in what's going on? I like participating in the events, I just have issues with the rewards not being worth the effort. But if I'm going to be asked to start competing for those mediocre prizes as well, I'll be moving on. When I want competition, I go and play a game that is built around it.

 

[DeletedUser4195]

This game had no competition for years, that's why many of us chose it. There are loads of other games with competition, even inno has a few. If this game is becoming a game of competition, players will find another that doesn't. Judging from the poll (which I know is too small a sample) there are quite a few that feel this way.

Guess what? You don't have to compete!! Why don't you just pretend it doesn't exist? Maybe it will go away. I for one hope not and look forward to winning first place again. I really like those 3 x 14 hour time boosts. Saves diamonds.

 

[DeletedUser7370]

Why don't you just pretend it doesn't exist? Maybe it will go away.

We tried that with you, but you are still here.

Why play a game if you are going to intentionally ignore some significant part of the game? Again we are saying we like a lot of cooperation in a game. Many of the people in this topic have said they enjoyed the FA because of all the cooperation and communication it brought with it. None of those people want to skip participating in the event because it encourages something we want more of in the game...cooperation. Which is the antonym of competition.

 

[DeletedUser4195]

For me, at the heart of the problem are two things, reward vs effort and the PvP element. As we've been stating, there is nothing wrong with a bit of competition, but that's not why we play this game. I don't care who get's the top #3 places. If they have the means and the cohesion to do so, great! It's just like how I don't care how many fellowships are higher ranked than ours, or how many players are higher ranked than I am. What I do care about is my pups putting forth their best effort, whatever it may be, and only getting a few mediocre prizes that don't measure up to the effort expended to get them. Even the prizes handed out to the top #3 aren't anything special considering the effort required to get them. No, not everyone needs a reward, but anyone who puts forth enough effort to reach certain goals deserves a suitable reward.

I don't hate the event, I actually rather enjoyed it. I think it has a lot of potential. But as with anything new, it also has a lot of flaws as well. Introducing a PvP element to a game that encourages co-op, and a pretty big one at that, seems pretty contradictory. That has a lot of us concerned. Is this the direction that the game is headed? If so, a lot of people are going to move on. Elvanar's appeal for many was the lack of need to compete for anything. Work for it, yes, but not compete. Sure, we could ignore the event, but then, why play the game if we aren't going to participate in what's going on? I like participating in the events, I just have issues with the rewards not being worth the effort. But if I'm going to be asked to start competing for those mediocre prizes as well, I'll be moving on. When I want competition, I go and play a game that is built around it.

**This wasn't an event. It was a COMPETITION. Again, nobody is forcing you to compete. It is optional content that you do not have to complete to make any kind of gains in your personal game and/or city. Leave the COMPETITION for those who want to compete.**

**IT IS NOT PvP!!! No interaction between players was involved. No looting of anyone's town happened. No damage was done to anyone's town. Whoever applied the incorrect label of PvP or GvG needs to research and understand the meaning of the terms.**
However, I am fully aware that the misuse of the term was meant to inflame and incite the anger of the crowd as well as raise unfounded fears..

 

[DeletedUser4195]

We tried that with you, but you are still here.

Why play a game if you are going to intentionally ignore some significant part of the game? Again we are saying we like a lot of cooperation in a game. Many of the people in this topic have said they enjoyed the FA because of all the cooperation and communication it brought with it. None of those people want to skip participating in the event because it encourages something we want more of in the game...cooperation. Which is the antonym of competition.

I should have left you on ignore where I had you, but like a fool I gave you another chance. So, before I put you back where you were, with the other rude and obnoxious people, I'll simply make my point one more time. Just because you compete doesn't mean you should win something. This isn't grade school where every child gets a ribbon just for running the race. I understand why you people don't like the fellowship adventures...it's because you don't understand the meaning of competition. It's not a competition anymore when everyone wins the prize.

 

[DeletedUser4195]

The point is that Ashrem is saying he wants more apples, like we've always had, "no oranges please".
So of course he must compare apples and oranges when he says "I like apples better than oranges"

Ridiculous, like 90% of the drivel that oozes from you.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Breann

Ridiculous, like 90% of the drivel that oozes from you.

If someone says "I want the FA to be more like the tournaments in this way" They are obviously comparing 2 things that are different...that's the point.
You can't actually compare 2 things that are exactly the same, what would be the point in that?

IT IS NOT PvP!!! No interaction between players was involved.

Except for the part where a fellowship completing more badges than you meant that they got a prize instead of you, right?
Maybe you don't understand the meaning of PvP or competition?

 

[DeletedUser4195]

This game had no competition for years, that's why many of us chose it. There are loads of other games with competition, even inno has a few. If this game is becoming a game of competition, players will find another that doesn't. Judging from the poll (which I know is too small a sample) there are quite a few that feel this way.

Guess what? The free to play customers are going to have to learn to live with it or as you stated go elsewhere for their "free entertainment". Especially if the majority of paying players love the FA. Should INNO decide to keep it, I'm all for it. Our fellowship loved the competition and are looking forward to the next one. Keep up the great work INNO.

 

[Ashrem]

**This wasn't an event. It was a COMPETITION.

Yes. An orange in a game that was previously reserved for Apples.

**IT IS NOT PvP!!! No interaction between players was involved.

Different people have different version of what "PvP" means. For a large group of people, especially people who play Elvenar, something they can only win by having a higher score than other players is pretty much the definition of Player vs Player. Not everyone is required to agree with that, but this really is an optinon thing, not a fact thing. So all we can say is that you don't think it was PvP, and I do think it was PvP.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Guess what? The free to play customers are going to have to learn to live with it or as you stated go elsewhere for their "free entertainment". Especially if the majority of paying players love the FA. Should INNO decide to keep it, I'm all for it. Our fellowship loved the competition and are looking forward to the next one. Keep up the great work INNO.

Guess what? The free players loved it too, except for the competition part. And there's way more of us than there is of you. You think free players don't matter? We are half the product. If you didn't have us to trade with, swap visits, and beat in the rankings, you wouldn't have a game either. Why do you think they let free players in the game?

 

[DeletedUser4195]

Except for the part where a fellowship completing more badges than you meant that they got a prize instead of you, right?
Maybe you don't understand the meaning of PvP or competition?

I understand perfectly what it means. It's obvious to anyone else that does, that you have a skewed understanding. You can read about what it means here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player

 

[SoggyShorts]

I understand perfectly what it means. It's obvious to anyone else that does, that you have a skewed understanding. You can read about what it means here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player

Thanks for the link, here's the first sentence from it:

PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants.[1] This is in contrast to games where players compete against computer-controlled opponents and/or players, which is referred to as player versus environment (PvE).

Was my FS playing against the computer for top rank prize, or other humans?
You just proved me right, well done.

How about "Competition" Here's the wiki on that:

Competition is, in general, a contest or rivalry between two or more entities

Sounds a lot like PvP if those two or more entities are players, doesn't it?

 

[Ashrem]

Guess what? The free to play customers are going to have to learn to live with it or as you stated go elsewhere for their "free entertainment". Especially if the majority of paying players love the FA.

Well that's the question, isn't it? "if the majority"

Felyndral completely lost a top 100 player (one of our top members), who's city was heavily tricked out with diamond purchases. Another withdrew from the fellowship because she didn't want to deal with the FA and we decided to try for it. Another (just finished dwarves, and who spends around $30 / month) put in 75 workshops and 27 level 1 manufactories. She was disgusted with our inability to make the top 25 and is probably leaving the game shortly.

None of us know how it has been received by the majority. We're all entitled to advocate for what we'd prefer.

 

[Ashrem]

I understand perfectly what it means. It's obvious to anyone else that does, that you have a skewed understanding. You can read about what it means here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player

You're reading what you want to see into that. The first sentence has "conflict within a game between two or more live participants. This is in contrast to games where players compete against computer-controlled opponents and/or players" You're interpreting that as "PvP combat" which is only one kind of PvP. Checkers is PvP. Fellowship adventures is PvP.

 

[DeletedUser4195]

Guess what? The free players loved it too, except for the competition part. And there's way more of us than there is of you. You think free players don't matter? We are half the product. If you didn't have us to trade with, swap visits, and beat in the rankings, you wouldn't have a game either. Why do you think they let free players in the game?

I didn't say that. Quit trying to put words in my mouth. You're the one who mentioned going elsewhere to find your free entertainment, not me. As for missing the free players...not really, except for a few. I rarely trade outside of my fellowship, rarely if ever visit anyone outside of my fellowship and 99% of the free players have such low scores I passed them a year ago, so that hardly matters. What I would miss about the free players are the thousands of abandoned cities that keep the good players separated.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I didn't say that. Quit trying to put words in my mouth. You're the one who mentioned going elsewhere to find your free entertainment, not me. As for missing the free players...not really, except for a few. I rarely trade outside of my fellowship, rarely if ever visit anyone outside of my fellowship and 99% of the free players have such low scores I passed them a year ago, so that hardly matters. What I would miss about the free players are the thousands of abandoned cities that keep the good players separated.

LMAO
"I didn't say Free players don't matter. Here's a list of why I think free players don't matter:"
Do you even think about what you're typing?

There's no need to put words in your mouth; the garbage that spews forth is perfect as is.

 

[DeletedUser4195]

It's just like everything else on these forums. The issue of the month. I've had my fun...stirring the pot and getting you riled up over nothing. For ages it was the change in the battle format. You flogged that horse until it was bruised and bleeding. Then there was the scouting/over-scouting issue. What was next? Oh yeah! How hard you had to work in an event to get a reward or prize. Somewhere in there was the change in Tournaments..."Why do I have to join a fellowship to play in the tournaments now?". I hate this, I hate that, I'm going to leave if INNO doesn't do this or that. What a bunch of petulant little children. Small wonder hardly anyone ever comes to this forum. It's dominated by a handful of overbearing egomaniacs. See you next time there's something new.