Have Made Game Too Tedious and Difficult

[DeletedUser61]

People who say, "I zoned out.", generate such contempt from me. How?! How do you do that?!

From https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Socrates
"the life which is unexamined is not worth living"

The absent-minded (which is wonderfully descriptive) professor is a cliche, but s/he is probably more interested, and interesting, than any of your other acquaintances, because s/he brings novel content to the conversation.

I have a problem with chemically induced zoning out, alcohol or otherwise, but I'm totally capable of ignoring my surroundings. Even when I was a kid I could lie in the middle of the front room rug with 3 siblings racing around, dogs, cats, and the TV blaring, and be entirely absorbed in whatever I was reading.

 

[DeletedUser1055]

I understand what some of you are saying, however I do prefer to keep some non-boosted factories and I find them helpful. For instance, gems is not one of my boosted goods, I generate some every day. I was able to help out a fellow player who just needed a few. If I need gems, I don't have to ask for as many from others if I have some of my own. That method has worked quite well for me and as an Archmage, it's very important to me to be in a position where I can help someone who say, only needs 100 of something to obtain their goal. I don't concentrate on upgrading them to their full extent, but I prefer to have some on hand. I do think there is more than one way to "skin a cat" and if the game developers only want you to play their way to succeed, what kind of game is this???

 

[DeletedUser]

Have you found a way to stop your mind? Besides alcohol, which I've tried and continue to try even though it hurts me. People who say, "I zoned out.", generate such contempt from me. How?! How do you do that?!

Yeah, I've forgotten how to combine posts and follow the rules, and a mod will yell at us with obscure language that I can only laugh at. Good times.

~~~~~ MissAnthropy merged them for you ~~~~~
The easy way to merge posts is:
1) Highlight JUST the material you want to append
2) Click on the Reply tooltip, which dumps the quote into the edit box at the bottom of the page, wrapped up in some BBCode
3) Ctrl+A, then Ctrl+X to get the stuff onto your clipboard
4) Click on edit to open the base message, then Ctrl+C to append the quote or insert it wherever makes the most sense
5) Add your commentary and (re)Post your reply
6) Delete your extraneous posts

While I'm about it, let me PLEAD for small snippets. I'd rather not read entire posts a half dozen times, and your argument is much stronger when we can tell precisely what it was that caught your attention.

While we're quoting Friedrich Nietzsche

hahaha yes I do tend to write too much. haha. No way to stop my mind that I have found. for me alcohol doesn't stop my mind, it just makes it think in drunk and takes me longer to understand what it is trying to say, hahaha. Thank you for the combined post info.

 

[DeletedUser]

I understand what some of you are saying, however I do prefer to keep some non-boosted factories and I find them helpful. For instance, gems is not one of my boosted goods, I generate some every day. I was able to help out a fellow player who just needed a few. If I need gems, I don't have to ask for as many from others if I have some of my own. That method has worked quite well for me and as an Archmage, it's very important to me to be in a position where I can help someone who say, only needs 100 of something to obtain their goal. I don't concentrate on upgrading them to their full extent, but I prefer to have some on hand. I do think there is more than one way to "skin a cat" and if the game developers only want you to play their way to succeed, what kind of game is this???

Your right. I too prefer to have more on hand and too help when needed. It is called team work which makes the fellowships all the better.

 

[DeletedUser]

This game is when it comes down to it a service. The game developers are providing this game for our enjoyment and their profit. So it only makes sense that they should work towards increasing the enjoyment too more people. The more who enjoy the more the company and designers profit from their efforts on several levels. So to think / say it is their game and they can do what they want and we need to go with the flow just isn't practical. A balance can be found with input from all.

 

[DeletedUser594]

There is so much in this thread it's nearly impossible to answer it all so let me just stick with production of goods and answer a few points brought up regarding that.

I like to have some NB Goods on hand. You can't always get what you need strictly by trading. I can't force members to trade.

Creating a fellowship where you can meet all those needs through trades is a lot of work. I don't have a rule on production in my fellowships and it took a lot of work to get to a point where all goods needs are met in house. If you want to talk brass tacks on how to nudge a fellowship in that direction without adding a rule then let's chat about it in message.
**importantly- it doesn't take having 25 members producing boosted only. it only takes a handful (maybe 5 min?) producing boosted only to have sufficient goods
I closed out 7,000 in marble and over 5,000 in plank trades (both non-boosted items) when I logged onto Winyandor and that didn't put a dent in my reserves.

but right now so many are needing the same things and those with the needed boosts can't help everyone.

That happens from time to time but if everyone has at least a min. number of boosted factories it should be relatively short periods where there is a shortage like that.

To enjoy this game you must play the game the one and only way the game will let you play to succeed.

You can choose a lot of different paths but some will net you more goods than others.
Unfortunately it also requires having an eye on production- I keep a spread sheet that shows me I have 9marble, 8 steel, and 8 planks boosted members and they are listed by rank so I have a rough idea what level buildings they have and therefore know where my group is strong and where we will look to recruit if an opening occurs


Teamwork doesn't mean everyone doing a little of everything. You don't have a football team where the quarterback also kicks fieldgoals and the kicker blocks tackles. Everyone contributes to the success of the whole group by bringing their unique attributes to the table.
Or for a non sports analogy- how would a wedding go if you had the florist do a bit of cooking while your caterer played some music and your Dj arranged flowers? Producing boosted only is not selfish- it brings your strengths to the table so the whole group benefits.

 

[DeletedUser]

There is so much in this thread it's nearly impossible to answer it all so let me just stick with production of goods and answer a few points brought up regarding that.


Creating a fellowship where you can meet all those needs through trades is a lot of work. I don't have a rule on production in my fellowships and it took a lot of work to get to a point where all goods needs are met in house. If you want to talk brass tacks on how to nudge a fellowship in that direction without adding a rule then let's chat about it in message.
**importantly- it doesn't take having 25 members producing boosted only. it only takes a handful (maybe 5 min?) producing boosted only to have sufficient goods
I closed out 7,000 in marble and over 5,000 in plank trades (both non-boosted items) when I logged onto Winyandor and that didn't put a dent in my reserves.

That happens from time to time but if everyone has at least a min. number of boosted factories it should be relatively short periods where there is a shortage like that.

You can choose a lot of different paths but some will net you more goods than others.
Unfortunately it also requires having an eye on production- I keep a spread sheet that shows me I have 9marble, 8 steel, and 8 planks boosted members and they are listed by rank so I have a rough idea what level buildings they have and therefore know where my group is strong and where we will look to recruit if an opening occurs


Teamwork doesn't mean everyone doing a little of everything. You don't have a football team where the quarterback also kicks fieldgoals and the kicker blocks tackles. Everyone contributes to the success of the whole group by bringing their unique attributes to the table.
Or for a non sports analogy- how would a wedding go if you had the florist do a bit of cooking while your caterer played some music and your Dj arranged flowers? Producing boosted only is not selfish- it brings your strengths to the table so the whole group benefits.

I respect that you want to play and it seems from what you say we all must play like that to have the best success. However why can't there be programmed in other ways that will succeed as well without it being an over whelming challenge. The game as is fits into your style of play and that is great. Why can't the game be made to fit other styles as well, without impacting what you enjoy about it? that is our suggestion.
Thank you for giving me a better view about a way to play this game, it is useful.

 

[DeletedUser1161]

I understand what some of you are saying, however I do prefer to keep some non-boosted factories and I find them helpful. For instance, gems is not one of my boosted goods, I generate some every day. I was able to help out a fellow player who just needed a few. If I need gems, I don't have to ask for as many from others if I have some of my own. That method has worked quite well for me and as an Archmage, it's very important to me to be in a position where I can help someone who say, only needs 100 of something to obtain their goal. I don't concentrate on upgrading them to their full extent, but I prefer to have some on hand. I do think there is more than one way to "skin a cat" and if the game developers only want you to play their way to succeed, what kind of game is this???

It's a normal game, with rules, tradeoffs, and strategies for reaching particular objectives. Like most games, you have to pick and choose between objectives and play accordingly.

Your initial post said you weren't getting goods and supplies fast enough. We have told you a very simple, straightforward strategy that will get you goods and supplies much faster, with the tradeoff that you need to cooperate with other players. Now you are saying having a wide variety of goods so you can help your fellowship is what you want. Elvenar also lets you meet that objective, with the tradeoff that your city will grow more slowly. You can't do both things because if you could, the whole boost and trade system would be pointless.

 

[DeletedUser]

Even when I was a kid I could lie in the middle of the front room rug with 3 siblings racing around, dogs, cats, and the TV blaring, and be entirely absorbed in whatever I was reading.

I am the same, but I consider that "zoning in", not out. The meaning of "zoning out", for me, is not thinking about anything at all, which sounds nice, as my brain bounces around constantly and fuels my insomnia/agitation to a great extent.

 

[DeletedUser594]

The game as is fits into your style of play and that is great.

My style of play? I was presented a challenge, analyzed it, and found a solution. Believe me "my" style of play would have been much simpler- but that's not the game I'm playing. Setting up a fellowship- explaining this very concept of producing boosted goods over and over till blue in the face to a wary group, earning one convert at a time until there was enough for the system to gather steam in my fellowship...was a lot of work, but for me worth the effort because now trade is easy and goods plentiful in my fellowship so no one waits to unlock research or is held up trying to upgrade for want of goods.
I wanted to grow my city at the pace I felt comfortable. To do that I needed goods to keep moving along. I looked at the numbers and came to the conclusion that boosted production with trade was the most profitable system for all to amass goods. So I set about building the structure that would support that system. My strategy would be completely different given a set of different challenges and goals.
Can they change things to accommodate different styles of play as you suggest? No one is restricted to any style of play but as with any game some strategies will work better than others. I like texas hold'em poker. I don't like when someone calls my bluff and I lose money. We could change it so that no one loses money on a bluff but then we've also completely unraveled the game structure and we're really just handing out cards and moving money around.

 

[DeletedUser]

It's a normal game, with rules, tradeoffs, and strategies for reaching particular objectives. Like most games, you have to pick and choose between objectives and play accordingly.

Your initial post said you weren't getting goods and supplies fast enough. We have told you a very simple, straightforward strategy that will get you goods and supplies much faster, with the tradeoff that you need to cooperate with other players. Now you are saying having a wide variety of goods so you can help your fellowship is what you want. Elvenar also lets you meet that objective, with the tradeoff that your city will grow more slowly. You can't do both things because if you could, the whole boost and trade system would be pointless.

Wasn't getting the goods fast enough TO help your fellow players Or yourself. Cooperating is what is being done, trading is being done. No change in stated goal the same goal. In my view and not speaking for the first poster. You aren't picking up on all the issues stated in the first post. Issues: Battles, Research, Quests are some not just the one issue you are talking about. I am glad you all have explained how you do it. It is helpful and I have been saying so. I am giving my view too.

 

[DeletedUser]

My style of play? I was presented a challenge, analyzed it, and found a solution. Believe me "my" style of play would have been much simpler- but that's not the game I'm playing. Setting up a fellowship- explaining this very concept of producing boosted goods over and over till blue in the face to a wary group, earning one convert at a time until there was enough for the system to gather steam in my fellowship...was a lot of work, but for me worth the effort because now trade is easy and goods plentiful in my fellowship so no one waits to unlock research or is held up trying to upgrade for want of goods.
I wanted to grow my city at the pace I felt comfortable. To do that I needed goods to keep moving along. I looked at the numbers and came to the conclusion that boosted production with trade was the most profitable system for all to amass goods. So I set about building the structure that would support that system. My strategy would be completely different given a set of different challenges and goals.
Can they change things to accommodate different styles of play as you suggest? No one is restricted to any style of play but as with any game some strategies will work better than others. I like texas hold'em poker. I don't like when someone calls my bluff and I lose money. We could change it so that no one loses money on a bluff but then we've also completely unraveled the game structure and we're really just handing out cards and moving money around.

Ok then your stated concept. Not your style of playing. I'm sorry I upset you by using the term style. You stated it with such force and detail I made a wrong assumption. as for your poker analogy you lost me. No one in this discussion is saying they want to make it so no one loses anything. In fact this isn't really a game that has a winner or loser. Just people taking on the challenge of the game. I respect and thank you for the concept you explained I will use and have been using some aspects of it before now.

 

[DeletedUser]

I took a look at your fellowship on Win. You have a group that could rise a lot higher in rank. The spinning your wheels you're talking about- that would stop completely and you would would have extraordinary growth with one change to your city and the cities of your top 5-10 fellowship members. You have to stop trying to produce everything because it's impossible. The entire game is structured around this core concept and no one beats the system. Does your fellowship trade? I imagine your boost is over 200% at your score? You're boosted in plank, silk and dust. That's a great spread. Why produce all the other nonsense? You have other members- you have every single good covered in your top 5- do you know how fortunate that is? Have you taken a look at how much resource is wasted producing non-boosted?
Just those 2 scroll factories tie up 762 population, spend 60K+ in coin/day, over 6K in supply daily to get 804 scrolls?
Your #3 member is boosted in scrolls but she's making silk, you're boosted in silk and make scrolls??? With a 200% boost if you switched over from scrolls to silk you would get 2400 silk for the same cost in coin, supply and pop that gets you 800 scroll right now. Why make crystal?- it's expensive...let your #2, #4,and #5 people handle the crystal in which they're boosted . How much more would everyone produce and how much more of your limited resources could you channel toward city growth?
If you ran every Non-Boosted factory in your city 4x/day and once over night you would get 5,186 goods at a cost of 545,000 coin, 54,500 supply. It sucks up 4663 population and takes 7 expansions worth of space up--not including the space for the 1500 pts of cultural items
That's what you have tied up to get 5200 goods.
If you took out every one of those non-boosted manufactories and put in 3 planks, 2 silk, 1 dust, assuming a 200% boost. you would free up 3,000pop.
and save 300K/day + 30k in supply and you would still get 5,100 goods and free up almost 5 expansions worth of space.


I have 4 steel, 3 elixer, 3 scroll. And that's all i produce and i trade. I don't ever worry about the cost of unlocking something. If anything I'm overproduced in tier one and two, with only tier 3 under 20K because I've been upgrading so that's gonna shoot up too.
Produce boosted. Trade. Your city will grow, your fellowship will grow, and the game is a lot less onerous when you're not scrapping goods together, and a city at your level doesn't need to be.

# 60 out of 432 seems pretty good to me. There isn't really a lot of lot higher left. I am not playing this game to be on top. I started playing this game because it was billed as a city building game and that is the aspect of the game I wish there was more of to enjoy. I am part of Roriane's fellowship as a group for the most part we aren't into the rank. Having said that were are at #60.

 

[DeletedUser1161]

I am the same, but I consider that "zoning in", not out. The meaning of "zoning out", for me, is not thinking about anything at all, which sounds nice, as my brain bounces around constantly and fuels my insomnia/agitation to a great extent.

Totally off the Elvenar topic but you might like meditation.

 

[DeletedUser1161]

Wasn't getting the goods fast enough TO help your fellow players Or yourself. Cooperating is what is being done, trading is being done. No change in stated goal the same goal. In my view and not speaking for the first poster. You aren't picking up on all the issues stated in the first post. Issues: Battles, Research, Quests are some not just the one issue you are talking about. I am glad you all have explained how you do it. It is helpful and I have been saying so. I am giving my view too.

Well, there isn't much in the way of "suggestions and ideas" with respect to the rest. Inno isn't suddenly going to make granite and copper easy to come by. We've already addressed having enough supplies and trade goods for research and building upgrades. As for quests, Inno has made it clear that they didn't intend for quests to be the primary source of supplies and nonboosted goods. I do think they need to address the 24-hour quests that actually cost us goods and supplies but that wasn't the focus of the first post.

As for fighting, the established pattern of the game is that you get some squad size upgrades and/or more powerful units in each act, plus a goods production increase. That allows you to conquer or negotiate a ring or two provinces that were very hard before. Then you slow down and make gradual progress through expensive negotiation. I imagine that basic pattern will continue going forward. Again, I don't see any specific "suggestions and ideas" with respect to battles in the first post.

Edit to add: It seems that a lot of high-ranked players have basically reached the end of the game until the next expansion is released? Is that the underlying problem? That's sort of a separate issue, how to keep a non-PvP end game interesting while new content is being developed. (And I doubt any of us want a PvP game or we'd be playing FoE. I certainly don't.)

 

[DeletedUser61]

When you're in a box canyon, see http://www.nature.org/ourinitiative...edstates/idaho/placesweprotect/box-canyon.xml, then it's time to develop one of your other cities, that you've been neglecting. Make some different mistakes next time!

To continue with our gardening analogy, sometimes you just have to let things alone for a while.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well, there isn't much in the way of "suggestions and ideas" with respect to the rest. Inno isn't suddenly going to make granite and copper easy to come by. We've already addressed having enough supplies and trade goods for research and building upgrades. As for quests, Inno has made it clear that they didn't intend for quests to be the primary source of supplies and nonboosted goods. I do think they need to address the 24-hour quests that actually cost us goods and supplies but that wasn't the focus of the first post.

As for fighting, the established pattern of the game is that you get some squad size upgrades and/or more powerful units in each act, plus a goods production increase. That allows you to conquer or negotiate a ring or two provinces that were very hard before. Then you slow down and make gradual progress through expensive negotiation. I imagine that basic pattern will continue going forward. Again, I don't see any specific "suggestions and ideas" with respect to battles in the first post.

Edit to add: It seems that a lot of high-ranked players have basically reached the end of the game until the next expansion is released? Is that the underlying problem? That's sort of a separate issue, how to keep a non-PvP end game interesting while new content is being developed. (And I doubt any of us want a PvP game or we'd be playing FoE. I certainly don't.)

Maybe I am wrong but this place is for making suggestions. That is what we did. Maybe if enough also feel the same way the company might adjust things a bit to accommodate some suggestions. Why should we just assume that they won't tweak things a bit? NO I am not saying make it easy, just not so one dimensional. You think they should address the 24 hour quest. So why can't others think they could address other points?

 

[DeletedUser1161]

Maybe I am wrong but this place is for making suggestions. That is what we did. Maybe if enough also feel the same way the company might adjust things a bit to accommodate some suggestions. Why should we just assume that they won't tweak things a bit? NO I am not saying make it easy, just not so one dimensional. You think they should address the 24 hour quest. So why can't others think they could address other points?

There is not a single suggestion in the first post of this thread. There is a poll that the devs probably found insulting, a lot of complaints, and some sarcasm. Later replies have not added much other than the idea that some players want self-sufficiency, but without any specifics, or ideas as to how it could be achieved while still preserving some semblance of game balance in the trade goods. There is also the notion that fighting is too hard, but that's a criticism, not an idea or suggestion.

I started a thread with a very specific suggestion about the trader a while back that would vastly improve solo play. It's probably buried at this point.

 

[Valtitude]

How does this not have more "likes"? I applaud you, Valtitude. I felt stupid, posting what I did earlier, as I broke my own cardinal rule of not judging the actions of others, but to hear the different reasons for why they do things is enlightening and well worth the read.

Thank you Talisman. Your comment means a lot to me. It comes by way of being willing to try new things and make mistakes and ... I attempt to help players understand what may be happening to their game/ fellowship. The interaction with players can backfire quickly and blowup, too. I've learned to try to see things from different perspectives. Not always easy. It's purely experience-based observation and information.

 

[DeletedUser]

The interaction with players can backfire quickly and blowup, too.

Aye, human interaction is volatile.

It might be due to the holiday season, but nearly every one of my fellows is being friendly and supportive, posting great trades and giving aid. *does happy spastic dance* Oh, it's a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling!