DeletedUser12336
Guest
Has there been any response regarding this issue anywhere here or on the forums? I kinda ran through the replies quickly but didn't see anything that stood out.
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Your Elvenar Team
Diamond Purchase Protest - Changes to Lighthouse & Bell Tower AWs Unacceptable
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
DeletedUser9005
Guest
I recently talked to the Arch-mage of Endgame and she said that the developers are kind of monitoring what was going... Is there anything that player that can't regularly buy diamonds do? I agree with a lot of the stuff that is said here but I can't regularly buy diamonds so I don't know how I can help...
DeletedUser10859
Guest
While I understand that some do not mind this new upgrade to the CL, it just feels like a backslide to me, and I am personally disappointed by this change and hope that Inno can somehow rectify this choice even if its a middle ground like cutting how many we get per visit. I have optimistically held onto my CL just in case!
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TomatoeHu
Sheets of Color
I will never purchase diamonds....I think your idea of a protest in a "free to play" game somewhat ridiculous. The fact everyone seems to be missing, the CL/ BS was a waste of space past chapter 7. Orc portal/ buildings more important, Woodelves need mana not extra goods.
Level 23 tier 1 buildings will put you up to a million in the bank with only 3 of them. Boosted buildings out produce world map visits with the CL/ BS. I cater everything: tournaments, events, regular map provinces. My buildings out produce the requirements to do all that ( 3 tier 1, 3 tier 2, 3 tier 3)
I deleted that wonder as soon as i could for a third tier 3 in chapter 7. Personal preference may influence you to keep such a building in your city like those who choose to keep worthless event buildings out of pride or nostalgia.
However, the change to the wonder prevents the exploitation of goods won and balances it instead so if your feel you need to "have your cake and eat it too" I have no sympathy for your choices, your new inability to hoard goods, and if that was the only reason for visiting your neighbors - sad.
Feel free to hate me for what I am saying, I wont return to this thread to read or say anything else > its not important to me that you agree with me and I do not mean to rile you up, just refreshing the truths. We all know that the change back, is never going to happen, whether you purchase diamonds or not. Its only up to you to choose to move forward and adjust to the game. No one can admit to only playing Elvenar for the goods given freely by a wonder.
Level 23 tier 1 buildings will put you up to a million in the bank with only 3 of them. Boosted buildings out produce world map visits with the CL/ BS. I cater everything: tournaments, events, regular map provinces. My buildings out produce the requirements to do all that ( 3 tier 1, 3 tier 2, 3 tier 3)
I deleted that wonder as soon as i could for a third tier 3 in chapter 7. Personal preference may influence you to keep such a building in your city like those who choose to keep worthless event buildings out of pride or nostalgia.
However, the change to the wonder prevents the exploitation of goods won and balances it instead so if your feel you need to "have your cake and eat it too" I have no sympathy for your choices, your new inability to hoard goods, and if that was the only reason for visiting your neighbors - sad.
Feel free to hate me for what I am saying, I wont return to this thread to read or say anything else > its not important to me that you agree with me and I do not mean to rile you up, just refreshing the truths. We all know that the change back, is never going to happen, whether you purchase diamonds or not. Its only up to you to choose to move forward and adjust to the game. No one can admit to only playing Elvenar for the goods given freely by a wonder.
DeletedUser
Guest
Yup. My partner plays a Star Wars MMO and they just got nerfed big time.
DeletedUser4774
Guest
Very unimpressed with the changes to the Crystal Lighthouse. I spent a lot of kp upgrading but will no longer. I don't donate to others CL. I have quit visiting neighbors unless they visit me. It truly isn't worth it now that this change occurred. I don't understand why the change was made and have seen no justification for it. Adding the "bonus" to the treasure chests just seems like a slap in the face. HIGHLY UNIMPRESSED.
DeletedUser663
Guest
There are numerous threads about the changes made to Lighthouse and Bell Tower AWs - if you agree with the objection to the changes made by developers then -
PLEASE SUPPORT OUR PROTEST by REFUSING TO USE or BUY DIAMONDS
The changes have reduced visiting rates of many active players who used the resulting goods to help with tournament play.
PLEASE SUPPORT OUR PROTEST by REFUSING TO USE or BUY DIAMONDS
The changes have reduced visiting rates of many active players who used the resulting goods to help with tournament play.
qaccy
Well-Known Member
Don't forget what the AW was like before it became 'one of the best'!
Anyway, my limited diamond buying/spending (for the record, spending diamonds doesn't really have any impact on Inno's finances as by that point they've already been paid for) has not been affected by any of this. I spend primarily on research and obtaining AWs as soon as I unlock them. Since I'm finished with research, that subsequently means there isn't really anything to spend diamonds on even if I wanted to. This applies to most of the loudest voices on the forum, I believe - being done with research and also potentially already having all of their magic buildings bought and paid for - so this 'protest' kind of got shot in the foot from the very beginning. There isn't much compulsion to even spend diamonds in the first place as I've pointed out, and most of the diamond purchases in this game are coming from high-level players entering new chapters, and brand new players entering the game and deciding they're willing to drop a few bucks (and they're largely unaffected by this situation anyway). Elvenar's still a great game that's held my attention since it originally launched two (?) years ago. I think most of you would agree, considering the fact that you're all still here despite how negative your perception of the developers seems to be at times.
DeletedUser2870
Guest
@qaccy
First point: yes, I remember the way the CL was before. I actually remember when they first introduced the AWs. You seem to be unable to grasp my point here.
They designed the CL in a certain way, then decided it needed a boost. Fine so far. So they changed it and now decided it is overpowered in this new change. Also fine. I do not have a problem with it being taken down a notch. The point is it hasn't been taken down a notch, it has been castrated, which is something rather diffferent.
The point about the diamonds: I guess you are right that the not-spending diamonds doesn't matter, since they are indeed already paid for. But the not-buying is a different matter.
On that account I also at least partially disagree with you on who spends and when they do. I know several players who, like myself, used to buy diamonds regularly, whether they needed them or not. In my case, I just had set myself a budget every month and I just spent that money. Not more if it was convenient (or hardly ever so, unless I was treating myself to an expansion), but also not less when I didn't need diamonds right away. It pretty much resulted in me stockpiling diamonds, since I didn't always use them right away. Sure, a lot of diamonds get used during the start of a new chapter, but that doesn't automatically mean they are bought at that time.
And it does seem to have some kind of effect, because I get bombarded more and more often by prompts to buy them, with increasingly better rates: 10% more, 20% more, 30% more, 40% more and this week 50% more diamonds for the same money. A test account even got an offer for 100% more diamonds.
And yes, I'm sure everyone gets those offers once in a while, especially during events, I now however, hardly see a single day where I'm not getting a 'special offer' to be taken in the next 24 hours. Far more than I used to, and with far better percentages. So either they are generally more agressively trying to haul in money, or they noticed that my spending stopped.
Btw, I noticed that the package I used to take, the one for $20,00 now has been discontinued, but newer ones have been added for really ridiculous amounts of money. Amounts starting players will be really hesitant to take, so in that aspect it seems they are trying to get more money out of the existing 'whales'
First point: yes, I remember the way the CL was before. I actually remember when they first introduced the AWs. You seem to be unable to grasp my point here.
They designed the CL in a certain way, then decided it needed a boost. Fine so far. So they changed it and now decided it is overpowered in this new change. Also fine. I do not have a problem with it being taken down a notch. The point is it hasn't been taken down a notch, it has been castrated, which is something rather diffferent.
The point about the diamonds: I guess you are right that the not-spending diamonds doesn't matter, since they are indeed already paid for. But the not-buying is a different matter.
On that account I also at least partially disagree with you on who spends and when they do. I know several players who, like myself, used to buy diamonds regularly, whether they needed them or not. In my case, I just had set myself a budget every month and I just spent that money. Not more if it was convenient (or hardly ever so, unless I was treating myself to an expansion), but also not less when I didn't need diamonds right away. It pretty much resulted in me stockpiling diamonds, since I didn't always use them right away. Sure, a lot of diamonds get used during the start of a new chapter, but that doesn't automatically mean they are bought at that time.
And it does seem to have some kind of effect, because I get bombarded more and more often by prompts to buy them, with increasingly better rates: 10% more, 20% more, 30% more, 40% more and this week 50% more diamonds for the same money. A test account even got an offer for 100% more diamonds.
And yes, I'm sure everyone gets those offers once in a while, especially during events, I now however, hardly see a single day where I'm not getting a 'special offer' to be taken in the next 24 hours. Far more than I used to, and with far better percentages. So either they are generally more agressively trying to haul in money, or they noticed that my spending stopped.
Btw, I noticed that the package I used to take, the one for $20,00 now has been discontinued, but newer ones have been added for really ridiculous amounts of money. Amounts starting players will be really hesitant to take, so in that aspect it seems they are trying to get more money out of the existing 'whales'
DeletedUser2163
Guest
Dhurrin: I agree with you because I am not getting my money worth unless I get that deal and then when you do want to use them yes they are there: But I use to treat myself too: But as of late I have not it cost to much it is not worth it: You know the contest the they be having on Facebook you get X amount and they supposedly send them to your account I have yet to receive it: Oops yeah I did I got about 100 Diamonds and I got lucky on that so I do understand where your coming from:
Ashrem
Oh Wise One
I got 100% bonus offer last week, while the bonus hazelnuts was running. I was not able to resist.
qaccy
Well-Known Member
@Dhurrin
The only context in which you can claim that this AW was 'castrated' is by ignoring the initial state of the building. The current version is still much better than that in terms of generating goods, which is really all the majority of forum complainers are interested in at the end of the day. Are you saying it's okay for an AW bonus to be imbalanced to the benefit of select players, but it's not okay for the AW to be more fairly balanced to the benefit of the game as a whole?
Regarding the rest of the diamond-related stuff, none of us can claim to know how or why Inno presents players with special offers. We've all been getting them during this event, either for buying hazelnuts directly or getting them as add-ins when buying diamonds, but that's been true for every major event so I'm willing to bet that it's just part of an event and not the result of any perceived 'effect' from a 'protest' like this. Regarding purchasing bonus diamonds/other offers, all I can do here is offer my own experiences. I usually see one or two special offers per month (excluding event offers), and the highest bonus amount I've seen is 40% (this is also the only one I've ever seen). I still have the $20 package available, despite the fact that the only one I've ever purchased is the $80 and generally only when there's something else coming along with it. I'm only one player out of many, but my spending habits are probably still more towards the higher end on a per-player metric despite the fact that I've only bought diamonds a total of 4 times since I started playing. If they were interested in players more regularly buying diamonds, I'd think that I might be a target for more frequent special offers but as it is, I don't seem to be and I haven't bought any since before Halflings (since, again, I don't really have anything I wish to spend them on). In a way, that means I'm technically 'supporting' this protest but at the same time, I think I've also spent far less on this game than a lot of the people who are the most outspoken over this one change.
Also, one final thing...why would you buy diamonds just for the sake of buying them? You're merely providing anecdotal evidence to try to illustrate a larger picture than you're actually able to (you, like myself, lack hard data that Inno actually has access to in order to make claims rather than just speculate), but it does seem rather...I'm not sure, silly? To buy more diamonds when you already have some 'just because'. Anyway, this goes back to what I said and also another post I made a while ago. If diamonds are bought, that's really all Inno cares about (when it comes to generating revenue). The when or why doesn't matter, just whether or not it happens. However, when players who have no reason to buy or spend diamonds try to 'protest' buying them, that's the point I'm trying to illustrate as to why any protest seems foolish. Essentially, most diamond activity here is one-off purchases made by players who are either already done buying them until the next chapter release, or by newer players who are either unaware that this change even occurred or they simply aren't affected by it. I've said it before, I'll say it again: The few who make large diamond purchases are vastly outnumbered by the many who buy diamonds within their first week of starting the game, not only in number of people but in total purchase amount. Now, I'll admit this is me trying to claim something that I have no evidence of, so this is just more of an 'educated guess' at best. But it's a fact that 100 people spending $10 match one person spending $1000. The question is, what's the actual ratio? Where should the line even be drawn?
Anyway, I got off point. My point is that I believe this protest has no effect because, to put it bluntly, you're outnumbered. To put the 'big bad corporation' label on Inno for the sake of argument, the ones protesting are just blips on the radar that aren't reaching the largest part of their income stream and you most likely aren't going to be able to, either.
The only context in which you can claim that this AW was 'castrated' is by ignoring the initial state of the building. The current version is still much better than that in terms of generating goods, which is really all the majority of forum complainers are interested in at the end of the day. Are you saying it's okay for an AW bonus to be imbalanced to the benefit of select players, but it's not okay for the AW to be more fairly balanced to the benefit of the game as a whole?
Regarding the rest of the diamond-related stuff, none of us can claim to know how or why Inno presents players with special offers. We've all been getting them during this event, either for buying hazelnuts directly or getting them as add-ins when buying diamonds, but that's been true for every major event so I'm willing to bet that it's just part of an event and not the result of any perceived 'effect' from a 'protest' like this. Regarding purchasing bonus diamonds/other offers, all I can do here is offer my own experiences. I usually see one or two special offers per month (excluding event offers), and the highest bonus amount I've seen is 40% (this is also the only one I've ever seen). I still have the $20 package available, despite the fact that the only one I've ever purchased is the $80 and generally only when there's something else coming along with it. I'm only one player out of many, but my spending habits are probably still more towards the higher end on a per-player metric despite the fact that I've only bought diamonds a total of 4 times since I started playing. If they were interested in players more regularly buying diamonds, I'd think that I might be a target for more frequent special offers but as it is, I don't seem to be and I haven't bought any since before Halflings (since, again, I don't really have anything I wish to spend them on). In a way, that means I'm technically 'supporting' this protest but at the same time, I think I've also spent far less on this game than a lot of the people who are the most outspoken over this one change.
Also, one final thing...why would you buy diamonds just for the sake of buying them? You're merely providing anecdotal evidence to try to illustrate a larger picture than you're actually able to (you, like myself, lack hard data that Inno actually has access to in order to make claims rather than just speculate), but it does seem rather...I'm not sure, silly? To buy more diamonds when you already have some 'just because'. Anyway, this goes back to what I said and also another post I made a while ago. If diamonds are bought, that's really all Inno cares about (when it comes to generating revenue). The when or why doesn't matter, just whether or not it happens. However, when players who have no reason to buy or spend diamonds try to 'protest' buying them, that's the point I'm trying to illustrate as to why any protest seems foolish. Essentially, most diamond activity here is one-off purchases made by players who are either already done buying them until the next chapter release, or by newer players who are either unaware that this change even occurred or they simply aren't affected by it. I've said it before, I'll say it again: The few who make large diamond purchases are vastly outnumbered by the many who buy diamonds within their first week of starting the game, not only in number of people but in total purchase amount. Now, I'll admit this is me trying to claim something that I have no evidence of, so this is just more of an 'educated guess' at best. But it's a fact that 100 people spending $10 match one person spending $1000. The question is, what's the actual ratio? Where should the line even be drawn?
Anyway, I got off point. My point is that I believe this protest has no effect because, to put it bluntly, you're outnumbered. To put the 'big bad corporation' label on Inno for the sake of argument, the ones protesting are just blips on the radar that aren't reaching the largest part of their income stream and you most likely aren't going to be able to, either.
DeletedUser2870
Guest
@qaccy,
completely wrong. The original state has NOTHING but NOTHING to do with this.
They changed it from that state to a new state. That newer state is how it has been used for quite a while now. Comparing it with the state before is utterly ridiculous.
But even if one did compare it with that state, then still this is castrated, since one would have to compare what it generated at that time, and then say ok, we do 10x that amount in 3 chests. So even with that original lower amount everyone who did more than 30 visits would have gotten less after this change. The only thing is that the difference MIGHT have been smaller because the amount was smaller. But STILL people who did a lot of visits would lose 75% of what they got from it.
If you want to compare, then do so completely and not conveniently forget part.
As for the diamonds, its not anecdotal, its just to tell you that your statement of almost everyone who buys only does so at the start of a chapter is false. Period. I and several of my friends did not. Several other players I've met on the map did not. So the statement you made is incorrect.
If you want to state otherwise, you'll have to prove it, not say it is so because you say it is so.
I just mentioned that I know of players who buy them in a different way. Whether thats a significant group or not, I don't know. Neither do you.
As for why buying regularly, why not? Why pay a monthly fee for insurance? why pay for a monthly membership for a gym? Its easier to spend a set amount regularly then to spend large amounts at irregular intervals. As simple as that. Easier to fit into a budget. Less surprises, and its there when you need it.
As for being outnumbered, sure. So has the protest effect? perhaps not. But it is still my choice NOT to spend any money anymore on this company. And apparently more and more people will feel so. And do not forget that things like this generate bad reviews, even if it is only among gamers. So its a long run thing. I just choose to spend my money elsewhere now. Sure, that may not be enough to scare them into doing something about it. But that does not mean that I would have to continue to pay for something I no longer believe in, no longer get enough pleasure from.
completely wrong. The original state has NOTHING but NOTHING to do with this.
They changed it from that state to a new state. That newer state is how it has been used for quite a while now. Comparing it with the state before is utterly ridiculous.
But even if one did compare it with that state, then still this is castrated, since one would have to compare what it generated at that time, and then say ok, we do 10x that amount in 3 chests. So even with that original lower amount everyone who did more than 30 visits would have gotten less after this change. The only thing is that the difference MIGHT have been smaller because the amount was smaller. But STILL people who did a lot of visits would lose 75% of what they got from it.
If you want to compare, then do so completely and not conveniently forget part.
As for the diamonds, its not anecdotal, its just to tell you that your statement of almost everyone who buys only does so at the start of a chapter is false. Period. I and several of my friends did not. Several other players I've met on the map did not. So the statement you made is incorrect.
If you want to state otherwise, you'll have to prove it, not say it is so because you say it is so.
I just mentioned that I know of players who buy them in a different way. Whether thats a significant group or not, I don't know. Neither do you.
As for why buying regularly, why not? Why pay a monthly fee for insurance? why pay for a monthly membership for a gym? Its easier to spend a set amount regularly then to spend large amounts at irregular intervals. As simple as that. Easier to fit into a budget. Less surprises, and its there when you need it.
As for being outnumbered, sure. So has the protest effect? perhaps not. But it is still my choice NOT to spend any money anymore on this company. And apparently more and more people will feel so. And do not forget that things like this generate bad reviews, even if it is only among gamers. So its a long run thing. I just choose to spend my money elsewhere now. Sure, that may not be enough to scare them into doing something about it. But that does not mean that I would have to continue to pay for something I no longer believe in, no longer get enough pleasure from.
edeba
Well-Known Member
I have accepted the offer that gives the extra seeds/sprouts/crystals/hazelnuts (or whatever they are called) for every event and I would have accepted for this event as well, but this change has annoyed me too much to continue to spend my money here. I have about an 80% decline in potential and is simply way too extreme of a change. The main reason I've worked on expanding my map was to improve that reward, which has been slaughtered and game strategy would have been different if this was the reward.
DeletedUser663
Guest
We are looking to extend our PROTEST into November as there has been no indication that developers have listened to our concerns.
DeletedUser7421
Guest
Worse than that - inno is now nuking not only AW's (which one is next??), but they are now also nuking event buildings AFTER the building has been won, placed and the event has ended. Where will it stop - since inno does not value good faith practices nor holds any sort of moral compass to help guide it's decisions.
I've closed down 3 cities and am hoping to have a new archmage in place so I can exit the 4th city shortly. I will NOT waste another second of my time on inno games - never mind my money.
DeletedUser848
Guest
I use to use diamonds to "speed up" my game playing but have quit using them in support of the protest. Seems to me that we might need to continue our Diamond Strike since INNO has not shown any response to our protest. This could get interesting if for no other reason but that getting use to NOT using diamonds could become addictive.
Ashrem
Oh Wise One
I don't think "nuking" means what you think it means.
DeletedUser2870
Guest
well, I will still agree they pretty much nuked the CL.
This action on the nutcave may not be a nuke, but its definitely not helping any in public relations, nor in gaining (ro rather regaining) trust.
The point @Juliandra Ari makes is valid in so far this sets yet another precedent in which Innogames shows its not reliable.
And in that aspect it really hasn't been doing so well over the last months at least. They really could need a boost in PR and trust and this is again the wrong way of doing so. Sometimes I wonder if there's a group sitting there thinking up changes that will piss off as many players as they can, just to see the reactions
This action on the nutcave may not be a nuke, but its definitely not helping any in public relations, nor in gaining (ro rather regaining) trust.
The point @Juliandra Ari makes is valid in so far this sets yet another precedent in which Innogames shows its not reliable.
And in that aspect it really hasn't been doing so well over the last months at least. They really could need a boost in PR and trust and this is again the wrong way of doing so. Sometimes I wonder if there's a group sitting there thinking up changes that will piss off as many players as they can, just to see the reactions