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    Your Elvenar Team

Dwarven Armorer

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
But once you have been doing these every week for two years, the same-old same-old prizes do become a bit uninspiring. It would be so easy to surprise us with something new every week - a mystery prize that is not announced in advance, not just in the 19th chest, elsewhere in spire and tournaments.
Variation in the basic 10 chest reward I would get behind. Replace th blueprint with DA once in a while, or a set of 1 each of the three 2x2 martial buildings, or soemthing equivalent, and I'd vote for it. I just think 19 chests is sufficiently rarefied that it doesn't' need more prizes than it already has.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
As @SoggyShorts says, it was fun progressing an FS toward 10 chests, starting with it every now and then and eventually it being every week with little effort. Same thing happened with gold spire which has become the 'gold' standard for a top FSs. This change would encourage FSs to work toward the 19th chest just as the 10th chest and top of the spire rewards did. The DA tourney FS will become the new 'gold' standard. BTW, I enjoyed that evolution of the FS becoming 10-chest then gold spire, though the gold spire was more frustrating since we never make spire participation a requirement and so many members had been around a few years.

@Jackluyt mentions how doing the same for two years can become mundane and having a new challenge would be nice. That's true and I find that the most compelling argument for it. Yes, it will become mundane too, but that's a year or so away.

Soggy also says that it doesn't matter help an FS that already does reach the 19th chest since they are already there. Which is true as far as the FS rewards go. They will just tend to build up more troops since the DA will reduce the troop loses. However, the DA will allow the players to get higher tourney scores which means more KP, runes, etc. earned from the battles making progress through chapters easier - not a problem. Also, higher scores in the tourney will increase their tourney world ranking and give them the 'prestige' and ranking points for doing well - dang more competition! In a way this reduces the complaint that the changes to the tourneys made it so lower leveled players could 'steal' the top scores in the tourney. While this not necessarily being bad, it's just that there will be an advantage for DA tourney FS members.

It was mentioned that it doesn't help caterers. I've yet to hear a viable building that helps caterers. There have been suggestions, but when details are discussed, it seems to become awkward to define the mechanics how that aid would work, or it makes it easier for fighters too which puts the cater back in the same boat. The game changed to favor battle years ago and, personally, I don't think an FS of caterers will be able to be a 19 chest FS. I've tended to see cater-only players shift to more battle oriented if they want to be in a 10+ chest gold spire FS.

@CrazyWizard mentioned DAs aren't that tough to get if you get to the top of the spire each week. I tend to agree with that. He says he uses 1 every 2 weeks as do I for the same reason - a zero cooldown period lets me do 2 tourneys with only 1 set of expiring buildings. Also, like him, the number I have in inventory varies. Counting a DA as 2 expiring buildings, I tend to have between 35 and 45 expiring buildings in inventory. 42 at the moment.

While I like the idea of a mystery gift in the 19th chest can't you just hear the complaints of "We did all that work and all I got was a kick in the pants for my effort." You know how it goes with too many or wrong artifacts in the spire, too many Portal Profits or spell frags or too few of them. It's an endless thing. Making it a fixed prize to keep your eye on is better.

So, after all that, what do I think? Overall, I don't think it's a bad idea or will unbalance the game. It will just change its direction a bit. More players will begin to score higher tourney scores and the quest for the DA will grow and be reached by more and more FSs. Still, I'm on the fence about a yes or no vote, but I think the mental coin flip will come down yes. 11 days to decide/change my vote.
 

StarLoad

Well-Known Member
I have voted, and I have read all that has been said, and it comes down to 2 issues for me.

1. It does not do anything for players that don't fight. Just a simple fact, and this is important as it favors one group over another.

2. The acquisition of the DA is not common, and I would assume that is by design; I see many more pet foods that DAs and I have been climbing the spire to the top, even in a Silver spire FS. I have gained an average of over 5000 in most tourneys, which helps my FS get to 10 chests fairly consistently; our FS best was 75K, but was it worth the effort? More importantly, if 75,000 points had earned a DA, would that have been a fair or reasonable reward? As I thought about it, I realized it wasn't about the reward but the accomplishment of doing it. To me, 40,001 is as good as 50,000 or 60,000 points; the paltry bonus means little. Does adding a bigger bonus make it better? I think not.

So I voted no for both reasons 1 and 2

Lastly, I will add that we asked before to increase the rewards on the 11-19 chests and got shot down flat, so I don't see this faring much better.

Ed
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
It was mentioned that it doesn't help caterers. I've yet to hear a viable building that helps caterers. There have been suggestions, but when details are discussed, it seems to become awkward to define the mechanics how that aid would work, or it makes it easier for fighters too which puts the cater back in the same boat. The game changed to favor battle years ago and, personally, I don't think an FS of caterers will be able to be a 19 chest FS. I've tended to see cater-only players shift to more battle oriented if they want to be in a 10+ chest gold spire FS.
Can it really be that hard to make a 2x2 building that applies a fractional reduction to all catering costs for five days?
I have voted, and I have read all that has been said, and it comes down to 2 issues for me.
I haven't voted, and won't. The whole "total votes both yes and no decides if it gets forwarded" means that for any relatively popular idea, every vote is effectively a yes a vote.
 

StarLoad

Well-Known Member
The whole "total votes both yes and no decides if it gets forwarded" means that for any relatively popular idea, every vote is effectively a yes a vote.
I tend to agree, as we have no clue as to what the roadmap for the game is and no good way to provide constructive advice. Sure we can have ideas forwarded but really we don't know if the idea was implemented because of our idea or because it was already a check box on the list of game changes that are planned for. Its all about transparency and that is a battle we can fight.

Ed
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
Can it really be that hard to make a 2x2 building that applies a fractional reduction to all catering costs for five days?
we can dream.... but...

basically for me this boils down to players not crafting
or not being able to craft ( for various reasons ) an xtra (2) UUUs/week
so they believe basically 5-10% of the FSs get to earn an xtra DA
each week for a 19th chest, and ohh by the way, those FSs to get that
far had to have burned thru some 5days that need replacing.......

Whether its 5-day bldgs, DAs, Vitality Surges, Genies, or PPs.....
uhhhh, certain things were not meant to be plentifull... no matter
how many xtra some players use, and feel the game should allow
them to recuperate each week.

I could put out 10 DAs, 20 UUUs, 20 ELRs, what does this prove ???
well 1) I have too many Ive been saving.....lolol, But
2) Anyone can use more than they can re-craft/win per week, and then
they just run out.

Was the game meant to be played @ 1000% xtra health and
1000% xtra atk strength................... No ... if these bldgs didn't "stack",
then way too many ppl wouldn't use them like water.......

I am in favor of some chgs to prizes in upper chests, but only
if they are balanced between fighters and caterers, and not
just stuff ppl can already craft in thier MA.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
One less reason to do the spire, if you can guarantee yourself a DA by going 19 chests in the tournament?
Most people do the Spire for the :diamond: and do the tournament for the blueprint. I don't think anyone's going to give up the Gold Spire cause they got 19th chest. I don't think I know anyone that's climbing Spires explicitly for a DA, considering that isn't even a guaranteed thing.

I don't think an FS of caterers will be able to be a 19 chest FS.
Haha, I was going to be the unpopular one to say it, but you have beat me to it. If it's 166k for 19th chest, then that averages to a little over 6500 for each player's fair share on a 25-man roster. The biggest tourney FS across all servers on all markets is Tourney Bandits on EN and even they don't have everyone pulling their fair share of 6500+ despite how enthusiastic they are about tourneys. They do have people doing 20k regularly though. That’s currently the most common distribution curve of most 19th chest groups right now, a few in the front pulling most of the load, like most FS actually. As things exists today then, the trend is you don't reach 19th chest unless you have a few gung ho tourneyers in your midst and we all know you don't get there sustainably by catering only. I'm not saying caterers aren't contributing, but you don't get to 19th chest catering unless this trend changes, which requires everyone to do way more tourney. And as things exist currently today, most people aren’t willing or able to do 6500+ in tourney, which I think is at the heart of OP’s sentiments. How do you incentivize more people to want to do more tourney?

Personally, I see this is less about tourney and more about managerial abilities. As an AM, I would have no interest in raising my recruiting minimum to 6500+ and make one of the dreaded aspect of being an AM an even bigger nightmare for myself. Burnout is real with the bar that high. You’re gonna constantly be recruiting and it’s now out of a tiny pool unless you want to teach a new city how to hit 6500+, which is gonna take a lot of time and commitment to see if they can grow their way there organically. And if you hit 19th chest, how are you differentiating your group from the other 19th chest group so they don’t then poach your star talents? All these things matter. Any team that hits 19 chests, I’m going to tip my hat to them and I don’t care if they get an extra gold star or DA. If my group want to hit 19th chest ourselves, then it’s always going to be about what we do and not what the heck anyone else is doing.

Can it really be that hard to make a 2x2 building that applies a fractional reduction to all catering costs for five days?

I haven't voted, and won't. The whole "total votes both yes and no decides if it gets forwarded" means that for any relatively popular idea, every vote is effectively a yes a vote.
In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter that much. Voting only moves the ideas forward from the forum. We are allotted several ideas bi-weekly or something so if it’s slow around here, there isn’t even competition for ideas to move forward from the forum. Ultimately, the ideas still have to survive the council of CMs of all the markets and emerge as a winner there to even reach the ears of the devs. That's where all the ideas go to die. I mean, do we even have a CM advocating for our ideas in the council right now? Haha. Our votes are far less meaningful than the CM’s ability to whip up other CM votes in this whole legislative process. Without a CM at the helm, the worst idea out of another market has a better chance than our best ideas.
 

Start Anew

New Member
I don't think an FS of caterers will be able to be a 19 chest FS.
While not in a19 chest FS I take exception to the comment as one can cater 26 rounds of 6 and get 7K points or 20 @ 6 and get 5400 points. I have done both and IF my FS was going for 19 chests I would be able to support that goal. Not everyone will cater and in a balanced FS you will have a mix of both.
 

Yelu

New Member
Many times it is mentioned that the people who cater will be neglected. But maintaining a 7000 point score every week just by catering is impossible for a long period of time. While the army can.
I am in two gold +19 chest fellowships. Most players who maintain such a score every week use a combination of battles and caters, with the emphasis being on battles. For this I suggested Dwarven Armorer.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I have decided to vote No, partly because a DA in the 19th chest is going to do nothing to inspire a fellowship getting 11 or 12 chests to suddenly work extra hard to get all 19. It might get the few 18-chest fellowships to push for 19, but otherwise it will only make the 1% even richer than they already are.
 

Yelu

New Member
As a last post, from my side, I will make one clarification on the subject.
All rewards from the various events are aids only. They can only help and motivate you. Maximum achievements in the game are easy. The decisive factor for maximum and lasting achievements is your understanding of the game and the skills you will have as a result of that understanding. And you won't get this as a reward in any event.

Skis are important for every skier, but what is decisive is what his skills are.

I wish you all the best and enjoy the game.
 
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Henroo

Oh Wise One
Like 20 RRs? :)
20 RRs is too much and would probably not get approved. However what about a less extreme version of this idea? Say make chest 19 5 times the value of the other bonus chests. So instead of a single 10 point AW spell and 1 RR, it would be worth five 10 point AW spells and 5 RRs. This would address the objection that adding a Dwarven Armorer to the 19th chest does not benefit cater players. Do you think this increase would make chest 19 special enough that it would become a goal similar to what chest 10 once was?
 

Farinx

Active Member
Like 20 RRs? :)
I think the 20 RR is what's already included.

What I haven't seen discussed here much is how good the extra RR per chest is. Being in a ~13 chest group I can certainly see the appeal of getting 6 more RR per week! Why isn't that reward enough?

Also, they purposely left the Chest Count at 19. If they ever extend it to 20 that's when the new reward will reveal itself.
 
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