The Constructs!

[Rathoril]

https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/24923c6f62c94cec8826aba27e0d8cf8/

Rearranged a posters city layout to fit all 16 construct buildings. Nothing deleted and freed up 3+ expansions of space.

 

[Ashrem]

It's apparent all you people want to do is argue.

I'm guessing you haven't participated in a lot of game forums? Elvenar is one of the lowest-conflict forums I've ever seen. There are games where forum disagreements spill into the real world every day and people try to ruin other people's lives. People tend to be passionate about things they enjoy. There's really no disagreement on these forums that's worth getting upset about

 

[DeletedUser20709]

I'm guessing you haven't participated in a lot of game forums? Elvenar is one of the lowest-conflict forums I've ever seen. There are games where forum disagreements spill into the real world every day and people try to ruin other people's lives. People tend to be passionate about things they enjoy. There's really no disagreement on these forums that's worth getting upset about

I mentioned in another post that I thought this was an excellent example of good people and good character. That indicates to me you missed my point. As I have you listed as one of those people who wont ever be happy, that's no surprise.
Do not try and turn my words against me. I have been forthright since the day I got here.
If you have an issue with me, state your intentions. and let loose the dogs of war.

 

[Ashrem]

I mentioned in another post that I thought this was an excellent example of good people and good character. That indicates to me you missed my point. As I have you listed as one of those people who wont ever be happy, that's no surprise.
Do not try and turn my words against me. I have been forthright since the day I got here.
If you have an issue with me, state your intentions. and let loose the dogs of war.

You are completely mistaken. I have no issue with you at all. And I have no skin in this thread, so may very well have missed lots of posts, whether yours or other people's. I am happy with this game every day, or I wouldn't be here proposing new guest races after two and a half years.. There are things I'd like to be better, and I argue for them. There are things I don't think need improvement, and things that other people propose as improvement which I think would make the game worse.

I'm especially surprised that you think so negatively of me after your participation in the "luminscent" suggestion thread. Before deciding I'm "one of those people who will never be happy" you might want to read a coupe of things in the lounge. Garden of Harmony and Weeping Willow

I am among the first to acknowledge that my humour tends to be acerbic, and that I am fairly demanding of what people propose when it comes to changes to a game that is played by thousands of people. That's why I rarely propose changing anything, but rather tend to suggest additions of both new content and new art. Those are things than can change the game without taking anything away from anyone or giving too much.

Finally, none of us know enough about any of the others to make public pronouncements about their happiness. I have been married for 25 years to a severely disabled spouse for whom I have to change briefs a few times a week, empty a chamber pot twice a day, and pick them up off the floor when they fall as they have no use of their legs. And three weeks ago tomorrow, my spouse's father, whom I've known for nearly twice as long as both of my parents )who died when i was a teen) also died.

The people on the other side of the internet, are not all monsters and awful people who are never happy because they don't like the same things you do. Mostly, we are just human beings trying to get through the day.

 

[SoggyShorts]

https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/24923c6f62c94cec8826aba27e0d8cf8/

Rearranged a posters city layout to fit all 16 construct buildings. Nothing deleted and freed up 3+ expansions of space.

Nicely done! @mikeledo did you see this?

 

[mikeledo]

Nicely done! @mikeledo did you see this?

Yes, I have seen all your smug unhelpful comments.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Yes, I have seen all your smug unhelpful comments.

I can't decide how to respond, so I'll do both.

 

[Pheryll]

Does the portal bonus actually do all that much for the ports? I haven't gotten there yet, so I'll use a coin producing culture building as an example.

If I have a coin producing event building that gets a set bonus (let's call it 150% to match constructs) and I have a 60% bonus from culture, then the coin I get is the base X 1.6 + base X 1.5, that is the culture bonus does not impact the addition that the sets give, so we are left with a multiplier that is added together, 60% from culture + 150% from set = 210% extra production, or 310% total production. This means that the 60% culture was functionally like a 24% boost to the entire production, as the 60% had no impact on the set bonus.

Is this also true with constructs? Is a fully upgraded portal only functionally adding 24%, and is the blooming trader's guild similarly devalued?

After building the carnival set, I have noticed that this behavior has now changed. Now set buildings producing gold/supplies have the culture bonus affecting the total rather than unlinked amount. Still waiting to hear which way it goes for the construct set and its production. I am also curious about how it works for the lighthouse of good neighborhood and mana from link bonuses. It may well be worth it to build the lighthouse of good neighborhood, if the link bonuses for the frost carved trees are respected.

 

[MaloogaLooga]

After building the carnival set, I have noticed that this behavior has now changed. Now set buildings producing gold/supplies have the culture bonus affecting the total rather than unlinked amount.

I noticed this as well pheryll and decided to investigate. Turns out the amounts displayed are not the amount collected. Amount displayed shows culture bonus on all links of the same type as base. The actual amount collected only gets culture bonus on the base amount. I've attached examples with the collected amount shown in insets (150% culture bonus active). This discrepancy should also be in play with banquet and fireworks but I haven't placed them yet.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I noticed this as well pheryll and decided to investigate. Turns out the amounts displayed are not the amount collected. Amount displayed shows culture bonus on all links of the same type as base. The actual amount collected only gets culture bonus on the base amount. I've attached examples with the collected amount shown in insets (150% culture bonus active). This discrepancy should also be in play with banquet and fireworks but I haven't placed them yet.

I am confused by what you are trying to show. In each of the four pics, when you add the regular production and the bonus production together, and then multiply that total by 50%, you get exactly what you should for a culture bonus of 150%. 150% bonus means you are getting 50% more than the base 100% amount, not an actual 150% extra amount.

 

[MaloogaLooga]

I am confused by what you are trying to show. In each of the four pics, when you add the regular production and the bonus production together, and then multiply that total by 50%, you get exactly what you should for a culture bonus of 150%. 150% bonus means you are getting 50% more than the base 100% amount, not an actual 150% extra amount.

Using elvenade booth as an example:

Displayed: 1.5(15,000 + 15,000 + 30,000) = 90,000
Collected: 1.5(15,000) + 15,000 + 30,000 = 67,500

Amount collected is correct but displayed incorrectly. That's my only point.

 

[Pheryll]

I noticed this as well pheryll and decided to investigate. Turns out the amounts displayed are not the amount collected. Amount displayed shows culture bonus on all links of the same type as base. The actual amount collected only gets culture bonus on the base amount. I've attached examples with the collected amount shown in insets (150% culture bonus active). This discrepancy should also be in play with banquet and fireworks but I haven't placed them yet.

View attachment 5299

I can now confirm that the discrepancy happens for banquet and fireworks. The production tab of the building and the amount shown over the building when collecting are incorrect and show the culture affect the set bonus in addition to the base. The value shown over the coin and supply totals at the top of the screen is correct and that shows only the culture affecting the base, not the set bonus.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I can now confirm that the discrepancy happens for banquet and fireworks. The production tab of the building and the amount shown over the building when collecting are incorrect and show the culture affect the set bonus in addition to the base. The value shown over the coin and supply totals at the top of the screen is correct and that shows only the culture affecting the base, not the set bonus.

Yes, after watching set buildings in both my city and in my girlfriend's, I can confirm that it is all set buildings that give coins and supplies and not just the carnival ones. The amount shown shown in the building info and the amount that pops up over the building show matching amounts, but the amount that shows next to your coin and supplies total at the top of the screen show the lower amount from only the base building getting the culture bonus.

So now the question is, which value is the bug? Is it accurate that we do not get the culture bonus on the linked bonuses? Or are we getting cheated out of extra coins and supplies?

 

[Pheryll]

So now the question is, which value is the bug? Is it accurate that we do not get the culture bonus on the linked bonuses? Or are we getting cheated out of extra coins and supplies?

In the past, all values coincided with the culture bonus not affecting the set bonus. This discrepancy may be a glitch when reorganizing parameters, or it could be part of a transition effort to allow culture to influence the set bonus. When I finally get my portal to level 2 in constructs, I will be paying very close attention to which values are actually being used in case of a discrepancy.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

Luckily the devs give us 3-5 expansions every chapter from the map and techs combined. Unless you used all yours up early?
Then for Christmas they gave us a set that replaced a dozen factories freeing up 15-30 expansions...unless you didn't do your homework?

There should be meaningful choices in the game. If you can easily fit the whole settlement, 3x the factories that you need, and every single wonder, then what's the point? What would be the challenge?

Ehm....they give us 3-5 expansions every chapter from map and techs combined. That is not entirely true. The map expansions are not linked to the tech tree (not until they introduced the orc-requirement anyway) and there is a limit to them. When you've reached the max, no more can be gained.
And for Christmas they GAVE us a set that replaced a dozen factories? I guess I'm missing something here, because I GOT nothing. You mean to say that there was an opportunity to gain a set for those who had the time to play the event. That is not exactly the same. I for one did not have the time, and so gained no part of that set. Not complaining, there are more than enough other events, but it's not the same as GIVING, to which I would be opposed anyway.

That being said, I agree there probably is enough space to fit in all 16 since the total amount of needed space doesn't change a lot anymore for the guestrace buildings. That space has been stable the last few chapters.
As for culture, it's kinda sad, but I hardly build any of the regular culture buildings anymore, unless it's a quest and then I often delete them again, since the event buildings greatly outperform the regular ones. And with events so common one has a stead supply of eventbuildings, which now also can be upgraded, so there really is hardly any reason to build others. I feel sad about that since it pretty much means that all the time spent by the devs to design them is pretty much wasted.

 

[SoggyShorts]

. The map expansions are not linked to the tech tree

they kinda are though...

I mean if we go ahead and eat the whole weeks worth of cookies on Monday that's kinda on us.

And for Christmas they GAVE us a set that replaced a dozen factories? I guess I'm missing something here, because I GOT nothing.

Gave us the opportunity to earn a set that replaced a dozen factories ...Better?
Granted that isn't available to players today, but presumably, other sets will come in other events...I hope?

I agree there probably is enough space to fit in all 16

Yup, I managed it on all 3 accounts and that's without buying any diamonds ever and using 7-8 expansions on Vallors/Grounds of Orc.

While I'm generally on the side of not giving players more space since we do have enough IMO, I am concerned about the longevity of the game. There does need to be something to strive for, and while only 5%(more?) of the players are currently sitting doing nothing for over half the year, that number will just keep going up. So what then? More chapters faster but none of them need more space? Or More map provinces and a grid expansion as some suggest but with a gating mechanism like orcs for every chapter so we don't eat all our cookies at once again? How does that work with those who already have 500+ cleared...same as those who got trapped by the orc update? Yuck.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

@SoggyShorts
True. Now I don't mind sitting at the end of the techtree and waiting...for me that's one of the goals anyway.
But for the future of the game, it means there need to be other mechanisms to keep it interesting. I for one surely hope they are not going to introduce yet another set of goods, though I'm pretty sure they will, forcing everyone to have one factory of the 3rd kind as well, since that would cover their 'new content' for 3 more chapters.

And about the space, I mentioned that before: after a certain point there just is not that much incentive to keep expanding on the map. I unlocked "squad-size upgrade 49' last week. So some fights in the provinces will become a bit easier, but so what? Though I keep scouting, I don't really feel the need to complete them since it doesn't add anything to the game for me.
It's why I suggested a tech which would grant an expansion (even without expanding the grit, it just would mean one could get one that normally was reserved for diamonds, making the premium expansion a bit less valuable since it only means you can get it sooner for diamonds).
And yes, they could put up another barrier, but that could possibly drive players away. The way it was done in orcs was not exactly popular.

So if they want to keep the game interesting, new mechanisms are needed. I made a post about the residences to add to the puzzle. Another way would be to have the upgrade for the factories be much more intense, doubling them in size, use of pop and a bit more than that in output, forcing people to sell some factories and replace them with only half the number.
And the beta-forum has had posts with suggestions for years now.

 

[Pheryll]

Another way would be to have the upgrade for the factories be much more intense, doubling them in size, use of pop and a bit more than that in output, forcing people to sell some factories and replace them with only half the number.

Yet many could just rely on set buildings to get all the manufactory production they need. The main point of the manufactories late game is to produce and support the production of sentient goods. The tournament balance places armies above goods.

Those who spend a lot of space in manufactories are doing it for the sinkhole investment that the more population and culture consumed the higher the rank. It is the rank calculations that probably need more looking at than trying to make manufactories a bigger sinkhole.

 

[Deborah M]

@Pheryll That will definitely never happen! Try to imagine the reaction of the pay to play top ranked players Some have 10, 12 or even more of each of their boosted mfg. Whether other players see the value or not, these players see the ranking competition as an important part of the game. Some have put Herculean efforts into staying on top.

 

[DeletedUser2870]

@Pheryll
Set-buildings are a possible way to get goods, but they will not be for everyone. Simply because not everyone will be able to get all prizes in the events and without the full set they are not even close to be enough. They are nice for people who can spend a lot of time. My time is limited, so I don't even finish every event and so set buildings for me will never become replacements for my regular factories.
And it's not inconceivable that set buildings will be introduced that produce sentient goods at high enough level anyway.

Here you see exactly the problem with so many events: the rewards have to be interesting enough to keep players going for them. The more events, the more powerful they have to become. Already there is no reason anymore to build any regular cultural buildings since the event buildings outperform them by a huge margin and are in steady supply. So other than quests, and when one just enters the chapters where mana is required, it makes no sense building them. And Since they now can be upgraded, even that is questionable.
The same one can see happening with pop and coins. Not completely there yet, but it's going that way. I expect mana will be going the same way (if it isn't there already), as do seeds and now goods as well, so sentient goods will be next.
Practically it means the events and their rewards are too many and too good, making regular buildings almost obsolete. It will be very hard to keep that curve going without ruining the game. And at the same time, breaking that curve will disappoint players since the rewards suddenly will not seem to be as appealing anymore.