SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
AW = Ancient Wonder. You'll soon unlock the Golden Abyss (pretty good) and the Tome of Secrets (worst building in the game) Each chapter after that you'll unlock 2 more.
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Your Elvenar Team
Ban and Boycott Elvenar
- Thread starter DeletedUser1365
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- ban battle issues boycott
DeletedUser
Guest
When you get all the runes for a wonder you can then click on the build tab, build it and start receiving its benefits. You can also upgrade these wonders by spending Knowledge Point on them.
DeletedUser3942
Guest
AW = Ancient Wonder
those are special buildings that are upgraded with KP and give you special bonuses
those are special buildings that are upgraded with KP and give you special bonuses
DeletedUser3721
Guest
What i am wondering, since the game placed a warning and an advice to kill off your entire army before changes actually happened....there are people in the game who bought or partly bought their army with diamonds. Still that advice is there though. Are those people getting compensated for their loss of REAL money? Cause if that's not the case, this sounds to me like them especially are being ripped off now, or to say it in other words, the game committed a kind of theft to those people.
DeletedUser4355
Guest
This game is too slow and becoming boring for me day by day, coz i cant battle to win, Only waiting for getting resources to negotiate
DeletedUser43
Guest
I support the OP.
DeletedUser3351
Guest
Okay, so many here agree that acquiring expansions through combat far ahead of research tree 'disturbs' the balance in the game. And that is the justification provided for the combat changes. But then, in the SAME line of argument, how would you explain that buying of expansions with real money doesn't cause the same 'balance' to be disturbed?
To me all this reasoning sounds pure BS. The only reasoning that seems plausible is that the devs thought they were not getting enough real money from selling expansions that they expected and players were getting far ahead in the game without spending a single cent. So they decided to tighten the noose so that only those who are willing to pay retain the right to enjoy the game with each advancement (not until very late in the game as was earlier). Again, the only plausible reason of distributing the impact to early chapters instead of delaying till the Dwarven chapter was done because they were not selling enough low level premium buildings.
Many of us play still play online games because this provides us the spirit of sport that we missed since high school. We accept hurdles and challenges in sports like those in steeplechase. Now imagine, if in your favorite sport, it was allowed to lower those hurdles or eliminate them altogether by paying with real money, would that sport be fun to play any longer? Almost anyone could pay their way to the finish line without displaying an iota of skill at any point. The race to the podium would then no longer be a skill based achievement but a trophy of one's funding of the sport. The sport that required skill would then be degraded to a vulgar display of one's extravagancy.
It is understandable that there are costs that need to be recovered and profits to be made, but it would be an entirely different matter if they followed a different business model either through one time fee (Guild Wars series), or subscription based (Eve Online), or chapter/advancement based payments, or a combination of any of the above (Elder Scrolls Online) and yet remain a profitable business delivering a fair product/game to ALL its customers/players.
The current business model doesn't require a huge player base of premium players. It relies on the spending capacity of say, for arguments sake, 110 players who are willing to pay staggeringly to be in top 100. The last 10 players deciding the cost they are willing pay to get to the 100th rank. The profits earned from those 110 players could easily surpass the profits from say, 500 players if they had followed the other business models mentioned above. The only drawback of this model is that it doesn't scale very well beyond the 10th rank as the perceptive value of ranking depreciates exponentially. Now, if free players are allowed to advance far ahead in the game, they become model for new players (those that do not want to be in top 100) who start to step in their footsteps. The devs probably realized this pretty late, or the development/sustenance costs went up too high that it was no longer feasible to sustain the growing ratio of free players to premium ones with the current model. So they decided to balance THAT ratio. The game 're-balancing' to make it harder for free players was just a means to an end. In this case, I guess the developers fell a victim to the lack of scalability of their own business model.
I am quitting this game not because it is no longer enjoyable, but because to me spending money in this game feels like licensing cheat codes (rather than supporting development) and I would loathe the kind of players that this game would 'succeed' in retaining with their current business model.
Camaraderie signing off...
To me all this reasoning sounds pure BS. The only reasoning that seems plausible is that the devs thought they were not getting enough real money from selling expansions that they expected and players were getting far ahead in the game without spending a single cent. So they decided to tighten the noose so that only those who are willing to pay retain the right to enjoy the game with each advancement (not until very late in the game as was earlier). Again, the only plausible reason of distributing the impact to early chapters instead of delaying till the Dwarven chapter was done because they were not selling enough low level premium buildings.
Many of us play still play online games because this provides us the spirit of sport that we missed since high school. We accept hurdles and challenges in sports like those in steeplechase. Now imagine, if in your favorite sport, it was allowed to lower those hurdles or eliminate them altogether by paying with real money, would that sport be fun to play any longer? Almost anyone could pay their way to the finish line without displaying an iota of skill at any point. The race to the podium would then no longer be a skill based achievement but a trophy of one's funding of the sport. The sport that required skill would then be degraded to a vulgar display of one's extravagancy.
It is understandable that there are costs that need to be recovered and profits to be made, but it would be an entirely different matter if they followed a different business model either through one time fee (Guild Wars series), or subscription based (Eve Online), or chapter/advancement based payments, or a combination of any of the above (Elder Scrolls Online) and yet remain a profitable business delivering a fair product/game to ALL its customers/players.
The current business model doesn't require a huge player base of premium players. It relies on the spending capacity of say, for arguments sake, 110 players who are willing to pay staggeringly to be in top 100. The last 10 players deciding the cost they are willing pay to get to the 100th rank. The profits earned from those 110 players could easily surpass the profits from say, 500 players if they had followed the other business models mentioned above. The only drawback of this model is that it doesn't scale very well beyond the 10th rank as the perceptive value of ranking depreciates exponentially. Now, if free players are allowed to advance far ahead in the game, they become model for new players (those that do not want to be in top 100) who start to step in their footsteps. The devs probably realized this pretty late, or the development/sustenance costs went up too high that it was no longer feasible to sustain the growing ratio of free players to premium ones with the current model. So they decided to balance THAT ratio. The game 're-balancing' to make it harder for free players was just a means to an end. In this case, I guess the developers fell a victim to the lack of scalability of their own business model.
I am quitting this game not because it is no longer enjoyable, but because to me spending money in this game feels like licensing cheat codes (rather than supporting development) and I would loathe the kind of players that this game would 'succeed' in retaining with their current business model.
Camaraderie signing off...
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DeletedUser
Guest
Thank you Camaraderie .
What you wrote is how i feel.
When you play a sport or a game you play to finish the best you can has fast has you can.
What you wrote is how i feel.
When you play a sport or a game you play to finish the best you can has fast has you can.
WolfSinger
Well-Known Member
DeletedUser43
Guest
Lol Wolf!! I'll be drunk by the end of the day just reading my messages. 
DeletedUser3721
Guest
I have a little apology to make with what i said here, as now it's finally clear to me, after finding a proper explanation about what the game meant with that, which i'll post here too....have to say though, alot of players where as confused as i was about the game warning, that could've been some clearer Inno. ok, here it is...
"I think what they are trying to say regarding the spend down. Advanced levels of troops will cost the same per single unit as the lower level of the same troop instead of the cost increasing as it has.
So if you have researched and have advance levels of your troops, after the change they will cost less to produce - yes you will be producing more at a time so actual outlay will be about the same. What Inno is recommending is that instead of spending more for less right now - use what you have and only replace as needed. That way when the change comes - you will actually be getting more troops for what you are spending now to get them".
No matter the effort the game put in this new battle-system, that doesn't take away that alot of people put money in it. The fun of the game mostly is, advancing, and as it was advancing already was a matter of patience. Since advancing is gonna be alot slower now, that takes away much of the fun already. For quite a few players it's next to impossible even to advance until reaching Orcs, as they "scouted too much ahead". So for all the effort, time and maybe even money they put in it, the new changes feel more like punishment for advancing, then it feels like a fair change. It is much like, buying something but when you unpack it at home, it turns out not to be what you meant to buy. But when you go back to the store they tell you "You'll have to do with it, we already got your money, you idiot".
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DeletedUser43
Guest
I don't quite think people understand just how bad it was for us "advanced" players to advance before this change. Inno keeps making such a big deal out of it, you'd think we were flying through expansions.
I face 3 to 4 day scouting costs. Add in 7 or 8 hours if the scout is done while I am not on or asleep or something. It takes 9 provinces to get one expansion. That is 5-6 weeks before I get one expansion. Many buildings take more than a 5x5 square. Especially the ancient wonders I can't even get runes for because all that scouting I did before the AW existed. That means it is 2 to 3 months sometimes before I can place a building. And that is what they call flying through the game.
Snore.
I face 3 to 4 day scouting costs. Add in 7 or 8 hours if the scout is done while I am not on or asleep or something. It takes 9 provinces to get one expansion. That is 5-6 weeks before I get one expansion. Many buildings take more than a 5x5 square. Especially the ancient wonders I can't even get runes for because all that scouting I did before the AW existed. That means it is 2 to 3 months sometimes before I can place a building. And that is what they call flying through the game.
Snore.
DeletedUser3880
Guest
So..back to playing Kingdom Rush for us all?
I do miss those towers and the cute little arrows..."pwing.."pwing"
Q
I do miss those towers and the cute little arrows..."pwing.."pwing"
Q
DeletedUser4648
Guest
I was playing 'sunken secrets' and the game was forcibly updated. I lost two weeks worth of work (basically a level rollback) and it will take me two weeks to get it back. And because they raised the difficulty level, it will take me two MORE weeks to get ahead to where I can start progressing again. Not sure I want to do that. It isn't just Innogames, I believe it is across the board, that game companies are doing this because we let them.
I also agree that this whole 'balancing' is BS and it is to get people to pay to play. I have no problem with that. It's the sneakiness I don't like. I still remember when Farmville 2 updated, adding I think 50 levels, but a lot of hard-core players (who else could get to level 100) had their progress rolled back and had to play some levels over again, which of course they could speed up by spending real money.... The uproar was so great that Zynga NEVER did that again that I ever heard.
It is obvious to me that boycotting Innogames or diamonds isn't going to solve anything--I predict more companies are going to do the same. I have no solution except to stop playing all these games altogether.
It bothers me that all these companies obviously think our time--hours and hours--aren't worth anything.
The free-to-play games were pretty cool. They are/were completely the honor system--you like the game, you paid; you didn't, or couldn't afford them, you didn't pay. It changed the world of online gaming, it made internet history. We were all part of that. I read somewhere, and sorry can't find the link, that in many cases the free games made more money than the pay games. Whodathunk...but We were all part of that, we made that happen.
"The only way to expand is to negotiate. So I need more space for manufacturing. However I still am forced to research and waste space on military things, even though it is a complete waste of space and resources and knowledge points."
I forgot who said this, now. Anyway, I played the game with no magic and no battles all the way to Dwarves and a little more it was just fantastic, unique and wonderful. It was annoying to be forced to spend time on military issues, just like that player said, but I overlooked it and trundled on. I adored my fellowship even if I didn't make a single friend, and reading this forum for a year and watching bobbykitty battle on braveley every day here---and my fellowship was the main reason I stayed this long. I nuked my city and am spending down my resources and getting out.
But I have no bad feelings, I'm grateful to Innogames for the experience. I bought diamonds in the beginning because I always do that for these games. (except for sunken secrets thank goodness I didn't pay anything) I like to contribute. I'm playing Coral Isle right now which has not betrayed me YET. I think for now I will pull out some console games and replay them, see what the wind blows my way while waiting for the dust to settle and see who survives.
Be good to each other. We shared something special. I thank Innogames for that.
I also agree that this whole 'balancing' is BS and it is to get people to pay to play. I have no problem with that. It's the sneakiness I don't like. I still remember when Farmville 2 updated, adding I think 50 levels, but a lot of hard-core players (who else could get to level 100) had their progress rolled back and had to play some levels over again, which of course they could speed up by spending real money.... The uproar was so great that Zynga NEVER did that again that I ever heard.
It is obvious to me that boycotting Innogames or diamonds isn't going to solve anything--I predict more companies are going to do the same. I have no solution except to stop playing all these games altogether.
It bothers me that all these companies obviously think our time--hours and hours--aren't worth anything.
The free-to-play games were pretty cool. They are/were completely the honor system--you like the game, you paid; you didn't, or couldn't afford them, you didn't pay. It changed the world of online gaming, it made internet history. We were all part of that. I read somewhere, and sorry can't find the link, that in many cases the free games made more money than the pay games. Whodathunk...but We were all part of that, we made that happen.
"The only way to expand is to negotiate. So I need more space for manufacturing. However I still am forced to research and waste space on military things, even though it is a complete waste of space and resources and knowledge points."
I forgot who said this, now. Anyway, I played the game with no magic and no battles all the way to Dwarves and a little more it was just fantastic, unique and wonderful. It was annoying to be forced to spend time on military issues, just like that player said, but I overlooked it and trundled on. I adored my fellowship even if I didn't make a single friend, and reading this forum for a year and watching bobbykitty battle on braveley every day here---and my fellowship was the main reason I stayed this long. I nuked my city and am spending down my resources and getting out.
But I have no bad feelings, I'm grateful to Innogames for the experience. I bought diamonds in the beginning because I always do that for these games. (except for sunken secrets thank goodness I didn't pay anything) I like to contribute. I'm playing Coral Isle right now which has not betrayed me YET. I think for now I will pull out some console games and replay them, see what the wind blows my way while waiting for the dust to settle and see who survives.
Be good to each other. We shared something special. I thank Innogames for that.
DeletedUser
Guest
This is definitely a "wild guess" because you don't know how anyone else plays their game. Just because a player says they like the fighting doesn't mean they do it every time, and it doesn't mean they win every time either. Just because a player says they like to negotiate doesn't mean they never fight. Steady growth in this game is directly related to the time you put in - if you regularly train troops or cycle your factories, you have more goods, supplies & troops than someone who plays less frequently. If you play more frequently, you cycle through quests more frequently and get rewarded more for doing the things the quest tells you (which, by the way, they tell you things like "complete a province" or "fight & win 3 fights" or "collect 4 relics" - all of which could only be done in the past via provinces. Now you can get relics from tournaments, but that is recent).
It's a bunch of baloney that anyone in this game is "over stocked" because there have never been caps or boundaries on what a player is "supposed" to have in provinces. The first & only inkling or suggestion of a "this is where you should be" province number was introduced when chests were placed at the beginning of each chapter that gave a MINIMUM number of provinces that must be completed before moving further - there was not any kind of "don't go farther than this" number or suggestion.
And echoing others already, if someone says that having too many expansions via your province numbers is a sign of being "overstocked" or "progressed too far", then how come you can buy them all with diamonds and get them that way?
I think it's pretty funny to make a blanket statement that all players who have expressed frustration at these changes are "overeager" and that it's our fault for playing & nothing to do with the game changes itself. LOL! Okay, players - all of you set the timer for 15 minutes at a time, cycle through your factories, workshops & collect your coins, do your visits, place your trades, but when that timer dings - you better log out quickly so you don't get too far ahead! You can come back later if you need to, but you maybe better reduce your play time to 10 minutes this time because we all know that overeager players aren't the kind of customers this game wants to cultivate!
I asked on another thread if you were the player in Elcysadir who has 7380 points, and I mentioned that we all start at 0, so asking about your points is not a dig. But your points & rank ARE an indication of how long you've been playing the game or how much you might (or might not) know about what has gone on in the game before you even started playing. If you play this game under a different name or have been playing longer than what it looks like - please correct me.
I tend to be skeptical when a newer player claims they know how the game has always been, or that long-term players ignored parts of the game in some way, or other similar talking points. Older/longer-term players are not always right just because they've been playing longer, but they do know what they are talking about on a greater scale than a new player.
PS - I won't be buying diamonds anymore, and whether I keep playing or not is still up in the air. The only reason I'm sticking around now is for my FS.
DeletedUser4417
Guest
Nope, I sure don't but I DO read the forums and what people post and most of what is seen is where people complain about the update and when it's dug into, one finds that the REASON they cannot fight and win is because they over-scouted and are way over-balanced with the number of Provinces conquered and are several acts ahead of their research and building. This was the basis for the educated 'guess'. Some will fall into this category, some won't.
Of course the Devs are not going to come out and say 'don't progress etc' but they are and DID however put a strong suggestion out there in the form of the chests with their required province numbers and this was backed up by the fact that people that now over-scouted faced increasing times of their scouts. This coupled with increasing difficulty in their battles.
Expansions have ZERO impact on the games difficulty. What DOES have a huge impact is the amount of provinces scouted and conquered. Expansions are a bonus that allows you to build and do more in the game but have no impact on how hard things are. Expansions are not a 'measure' of province numbers.
I answered that already. My points and such are only indicative of the server they are on. Not of overall experience with the game. .
Buy or not buy, that has always been a players right. But don't throw it out there like some 'or else' statement. People so far have been in a great rush to judgement over step one in a three step improvement and overhaul. It's too soon to be judging when you don't even know what the end result is or will be. Could they have made a mistake? Yep. But at least give it due diligence and give them the time to implement the full three stages of the overhaul/upgrade before you judge. I've seen too many on here pass judgement in what amounts to ignorance already.
DeletedUser43
Guest
I've seen stage 2 already. It will be good for humans if you think they need to slow down. The training of the dogs goes from 7 seconds per dog to 47 seconds per dog, so it takes over 10 hours for one squad. The new fairy units are weaker than our current units and all the troops train in the same queue in the barracks. But you do need more buildings for the new units...so you need more space.
Expansions are a bonus? Have you tried playing without any? They aren't a bonus, they are required. I don't know what you mean by that last sentence. That expansions are not a measure of province numbers? Province numbers are a measure of expansions, why not the other way around?
So what is the alternative? Don't scout? Don't get new expansions? Don't complete quests? Don't upgrade buildings because you have no room to build anything? Don't add ancient wonders because you don't have any more expansions? Don't use the magic academy because you have no relics? Don't get runes? Don't expand your neighborly help? Don't meet new neighbors? You might as well say don't play the game because there isn't anything else.
Those chests were only a floor. They suggested nothing. But again, even if they had suggested something what is the alternative? Don't play? See paragraph above.
I spend about 10 minutes a day on the game there is so little left to do and you think that is too much? I wait months on end to get an expansion so I can build one thing. One thing. And that is too much?
I don't understand what you think people should be doing around here? Nothing?
Expansions are a bonus? Have you tried playing without any? They aren't a bonus, they are required. I don't know what you mean by that last sentence. That expansions are not a measure of province numbers? Province numbers are a measure of expansions, why not the other way around?
So what is the alternative? Don't scout? Don't get new expansions? Don't complete quests? Don't upgrade buildings because you have no room to build anything? Don't add ancient wonders because you don't have any more expansions? Don't use the magic academy because you have no relics? Don't get runes? Don't expand your neighborly help? Don't meet new neighbors? You might as well say don't play the game because there isn't anything else.
Those chests were only a floor. They suggested nothing. But again, even if they had suggested something what is the alternative? Don't play? See paragraph above.
I spend about 10 minutes a day on the game there is so little left to do and you think that is too much? I wait months on end to get an expansion so I can build one thing. One thing. And that is too much?
I don't understand what you think people should be doing around here? Nothing?